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☛ Official ☚ The Big & Dandy 4-HO-EPT Thread

Yeah, it's definitely not cheap, but probably worth at least a trial if you ever get the chance. I was lucky enough to have some pocket change to spare when it first showed up, my supply will probably last me a pretty good while. ;) ETH-LAD is definitely cool too though! That's one I really need to explore more as well, I got a sheet but I've only taken it once.... Would love to hear your thoughts on that one too, it seems pretty intriguing. :) It's a shame that it's apparently going away too, it's certainly worth stocking up now while you have the chance.
 
I had my first real 4-HO-EPT trip today, and I have to say it's a real winner. I mixed about 50mg into a glass of water and drank it, and within 10 minutes I was already feeling it. The effects became strong within half an hour. The headspace was nice, very calm and lucid. Contrary to Kaleida's experiences, I got a good amount of open eye visuals. Things were wavy and morphing, and I got a lot of tracers. The body high felt great. Overall, I would have to describe as very gentle, both mentally and physically.

I have to disagree with the comparisons to 4-HO-DPT. I found them to be very different. I would say that 4-HO-EPT is more comparable to 4-HO-DET, yet I think 4-HO-EPT is superior to both. 4-HO-EPT is also much better than EPT.

I'm actually surprised 4-HO-EPT is as good as it is. It's a little early to say, but in comparison to the other tryptamines, I think it might be my second favorite after mushrooms. It gave me less physical discomfort than any of the others. It's very neutral. There's no heavy sedated feeling, and it's not really stimulating. The headspace is very positive. It's calm and peaceful without any hint of darkness. I didn't experience any introspection, just a relaxing euphoria. Like 4-HO-DET, the main drawback is the short duration.

50mg gave me some pretty decent effects, but it was a little light. For someone trying this for the first time, I would recommend taking at least 60mg. It's pretty tame compared to other psychedelics, so there's no reason to start with a low dose.

I haven't tried 4-HO-MPT yet, but after this experience, it's at the top of my list of psychedelics to try. I think I'll really like it.
 
Awesome, thanks for the report! I'm glad to hear it went so well. :)

I'm jealous of your visuals! I love the visuals of 4-HO-EPT, they're beautiful, but they're just not that strong for me.... Definitely not to the point of like significant tracers or anything, even on 100 mg it was mostly just extreme warping and melting and mild patterning. I feel like if I could find a way to bring that effect out while still keeping the rest of the effects more on the level of your trip here it would really make me a lot more certain about where 4-HO-EPT lies on my list of favorite 4-substituted tryptamines. It's definitely at least high up it even despite that though because I really do find even just the headspace and body high that satisfying on their own, it's good stuff, plus the fleeting visuals I do get are still quite nice, some of the best.

Interesting to know that you find it better than EPT, I haven't tried that one yet but I have some. About the similarity to 4-HO-DPT, I would actually describe it as closer to 4-HO-DET in the overall style of its subjective effects too, its comparison to 4-HO-DPT for me is mostly in terms of its potency of visuals and body load, and the particularly significant visionary strength. The headspace, color palette, and body high I would all say are closer to 4-HO-DET. However, I tend not to think about it or describe it much this way primarily because in these ways I actually find it even closer to 4-HO-MPT, which for me is definitely the most similar tryptamine to 4-HO-DET. The most significant difference between these two for me is that, while they both have a very strong blend of visuals, visions, and dissociation, 4-HO-DET has for me this very bizarre and, for a tryptamine, largely unique emotional and visual vibe that makes it feel very shamanic, tribal, otherworldly, and just overall distinct from its class, whereas 4-HO-MPT has a vibe that is similarly deep and alien, but that is portrayed through the same kind of brilliant geometric grandeur of like DMT and mushrooms with the now second most LSD-like visions I've experienced on any tryptamine mixed in. 4-HO-EPT for me also has some of this vibe though to a lesser extent, and there definitely is a part of it I recognize exclusively from 4-HO-DET's bizareness, which I think contributes to why I find it to be perhaps the most unique of the class, but overall I find it to follow the trend of 4-HO-MPT much more in that it still really resembles the classic tryptamines in visual style and has the now first most LSD-like visions I've experienced on any tryptamine, and I also find both of them to be deeply emotionally satisfying in a way that LSD also is for me but that 4-HO-DET has not yet been. So, that's why I tend to describe it that way, but I do agree with your assessment as well. This is not to say of course that any of this must apply to you though.... Just thought I'd give some perspective!

I bet you would really like 4-HO-MPT too, if you like 4-HO-DET and 4-HO-EPT. Honestly, I think most psychonauts would probably like it.... For me it has without question been the most consistently intense experience found within the 4-substitued tryptamines, both visually and mentally. I haven't even pushed it that much yet and I've been on the verge of a breakthrough multiple times, visuals like Alex Gray art, grandiose hallucinations, and altered thinking like tautological or irrational beliefs seem common. This is mostly speaking from my own experiences and a couple friends though. If you do get a chance to try it I'd love to hear what you have to say about it too. :)

Anyway, thanks again for the update!
 
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Thanks for the update cj187! :)

Now I'm pondering combos to go with 4-HO-EPT, in my mind...
Obviously, phenethylamines are first choice here, I'd want to try it with Mescaline and it's analogs. Perhaps will be good with some 2C-x compounds if I'd have any handy. Something tells me to try it with LSD or AL-LAD as well. Perhaps Harmaline for duration extension and reduction of 4-HO-EPT needed. What do you think guys?.. 8)
 
^ I'm right there with you. :) I'm usually really not that into psychedelic combinations honestly, but 4-HO-EPT just seems like it could probably really bring out the best in certain things.

I'd definitely love to hear about any phenethylamine combos you do with it! I really wish I could do it with those, but I'm sure I'll get a chance one day, at least with mescaline (which sounds great!). I may still end up trying it with DOC and DOPR when I have more experience with them though. I can't speak to AL-LAD either, but I will say that a combo with LSD sounds truly fantastic.... I can only imagine that it might bring out the best parts of the trip, possibly with much more color than normal too, without adding really any more of a challenge or body load or anything. It's definitely something I intend to do one of these days.... If you do try it you should certainly let us know how it goes! :) About using harmaline too, just be safe about it.... I haven't felt anything from 4-HO-EPT, or any 4-substituted tryptamine honestly, that would make me particularly afraid of the idea of mixing it with a MAOI, but that doesn't mean a danger doesn't exist, and this is a pretty new molecule still.... I personally wouldn't be the first one to do it, but someone has to be I suppose. If you do I would work up to it with small doses first though, and make sure you let people know where you are and what you're doing and all that.... Better safe than sorry!

One thing I've really been thinking about combining it with myself is 4-HO-MPT. As I said before, these two molecules, 4-HO-MPT and 4-HO-EPT, really are the most LSD-like of the 4-substituted tryptamines I've used, so I can't help but wonder how they might synergize and bring these qualities out of each other. They even capture different aspects more fully than one another, since 4-HO-MPT gives me incredibly LSD-like geometric visuals, confidence, and ego loss effects, whereas 4-HO-EPT gives me the most LSD-like visionary imagery and penetrating feeling of bliss. Despite that they both also have strong mushroom-like qualities too, so I really just think they could mix in so many interesting ways.... I hadn't really thought about it much before, but after cj187's post I've been thinking about how it could mix with 4-HO-DET too, that could be pretty interesting. There definitely is a certain aspect to both that and 4-HO-EPT that I have found similar even with as little as 25 mg, particularly as it came out during the white light visions.... It feels like they both touch on something a bit deeper than your typical classical tryptamine euphoria, and more neutral. So I think it would be really interesting to try those together too, and if they really synergize in those ways then I think that would really speak even more for 4-HO-EPT's versatility as well, as I would imagine that could be a pretty deep trip....

Yeah, those'll probably be what I try it with first, and LSD.
 
I just remembered something interesting about my trip that I forgot to mention. During the peak of the trip, I looked at myself in the mirror, in dim lighting, and my pupils looked normal. So it seems that 4-HO-EPT has an affinity profile that's different from most other psychedelics. It certainly feels very unique, while still feeling like a tryptamine. Of course, it could have just been a fluke. I'm curious if other people have noticed the same lack of pupil dilation from it.
 
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I honestly don't get much pupil dilation from much of anything anymore, so I can't really comment on that directly. I do find that to be a really interesting observation though.

Do you normally check your pupils on tryptamines? I'm curious because there's something I've actually been thinking about constantly for the last couple days.... I've realized that, among some other things, one of the most defining activity trends I've found among indoles can divide them into two significant categories: methyls and non-methyls. I've tried a pretty good amount from each group now.... From the former I've used DMT, MET, MiPT, mushrooms, 4-HO-MET, 4-HO-MPT, 4-HO-MiPT, 4-HO-McPT, 4-AcO-DMT, 4-AcO-MET, 5-MeO-MiPT, and LSD, whereas from the latter I've used DiPT, DALT, 4-HO-DET, 4-HO-EPT, 4-HO-DPT, 4-HO-DiPT, 4-AcO-DET, 4-AcO-DALT, 5-MeO-DALT, and ETH-LAD. Across both categories there is a lot of diversity, with substances from either ranging from sedating to stimulating, clearheaded to highly mental, weakly to strongly visual, and so on, but there is one consistent completely obvious and unavoidable difference between them for me....

Specifically, every single one of those methyl indoles has had me for me, to some extent, a manic, grandiose feeling of excitement and love, the kind that makes the world beautiful and rosy and full of meaning and possibility. On the other hand, this feeling has been specifically lacking in every single one those non-methyl indoles for me. For me the difference is most obvious in my response to music, which is completely stimulated versus completely calm with each respective type of drug, but it's noticeable in a lot of ways really. This is one of the reasons that I consider these substances so unique, because even structurally unrelated molecules like 2C-I and DOC seem to touch upon the same methyl mania for me and I feel that that's why they were explored, as their series produce effects similar to the classic psychedelics, but these indoles really seem to take things in a new direction by sacrificing that while leaving the rest of the psychedelic potential instead. I feel that they're basically like a class of uniquely down to earth or "sober" psychedelics, and I know I'm not the only one to take note of this, as it's often stated about ETH-LAD, 4-HO-DPT, and so on.

Anyway, I found this all very interesting in particular in relation to what you say about pupil dilation now too, because I honestly pretty much associate dilated pupils with feeling almost deliriously high, the way that the methyl indoles make me feel but the non-methyl indoles, including 4-HO-EPT, do not. So, I'm wondering if there could be some connection there too?
 
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I usually notice pupil dilation when I trip. I often look at my eyes in the mirror once I start feeling the effects of a psychedelic. It makes me feel excited and optimistic about the trip. It's like seeing a cat when it's eyes are huge because it's excited, except it's me.

I haven't noticed a pattern of methyl vs non methyl psychedelics, although I don't have much experience with most of them. I don't think there's a correlation between methyl indoles and pupil dilation because DPT gives me big pupils.
 
Hmm, interesting. I haven't tried DPT myself to compare, but from what I've read about it I feel it's extremely likely that it will also fit into the pattern I've noticed, so I'd guess there must be some other reason behind the pupil dilation differences then. Well, I do find 4-HO-EPT kind of unique even among the other non-methyls, so I wouldn't be too surprised to learn that it has some unique pharmacological differences too.

That's funny about looking at yourself in the mirror, I love it when cats look like that so that does sound fun lol.
 
I tried smoking this one for the first time today, 25 mg in a bowl of cannabis. I can't say how effective the technique was or anything, but I can at least say that the effects I felt were pretty nice, though not strong by any means. I just put up a trip report, a bit shorter than my usual ones. It can be found here:

(4-HO-EPT/25 mg smoked) - Fifth Time - A Pleasantly Psychedelic Bath

That's all for now. :)
 
You didn't mention converting it to freebase, so I'm assuming you smoked it as the fumarate salt. If you decide to smoke it again, you might want to consider adding a bit of baking soda and a few drops of water. I think you could get a stronger effect from the same amount that way. Smoking tryptamines as a fumarate salt seems to burn a lot of it.
 
Yeah, I just smoked it as is, which I believe is the fumarate. I've never actually freebased anything before, do you mean literally just add that to the dose right before smoking it? I never figured it could be that simple, but I really just haven't looked into it before.

I'm curious about tryptamine fumarate salts re: smoking. Do you have any scientific data to actually support that? I've heard that claim before, but I'm not completely convinced yet. 4-substituted tryptamines are supposed to be bad for smoking anyway for their own reasons so that could have just contributed to this too. MET fumarate on the other hand seems pretty much just as potent as it should be compared to freebase when smoked so far, at least based on what I've read. Apparently some people smoke DMT fumarate without issue too.
 
Hmm, wondering about the whole freebase tryptamines thing now, how much of it is true when vaping/smoking. You've cast something I thought I knew about tryptamines into the shadow of doubt. Seems to be the case with DPT. DPT HCl doesn't smoke/vape well at all. I have 4-HO-EPT salt in stock now. Might try smoking it as well. Rather enjoy smoking things for some reason as an ROA when possible but the whole freebase it first was the prevailing wisdom of the day which I took mostly at face value.
 
I don't have any scientific evidence, but it seems to be true in my experience. I have smoked 4-HO-MET and 4-HO-MiPT as a salt on top of weed, and it left a lot of burnt residue and was less potent than it would be orally. I've smoked 4-HO-DPT as a freebase and the potency was increased. There are reports of 4-HO-MPT and 4-AcO-DET freebase being very effective smoked, but people who have smoked 4-substituted tryptamines as salts usually report a loss of potency. I have smoked DPT and EPT HCl out of a freebase pipe and it actually worked pretty well, but still left a small amount of burnt residue in the pipe.

The fact that you didn't get strong effects from 25mg smoked makes me think you burned a lot of it. Smoking something should make it several times as strong as eating it. Turning something to freebase is pretty easy. Just add some baking soda, then drop some water onto it. It will immediately start fizzing, then you can smoke it when it's dry.
 
levels said:
Hmm, wondering about the whole freebase tryptamines thing now, how much of it is true when vaping/smoking. You've cast something I thought I knew about tryptamines into the shadow of doubt. Seems to be the case with DPT. DPT HCl doesn't smoke/vape well at all. I have 4-HO-EPT salt in stock now. Might try smoking it as well. Rather enjoy smoking things for some reason as an ROA when possible but the whole freebase it first was the prevailing wisdom of the day which I took mostly at face value.
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Well, if you only have a little bit to work with it might save it for a more certain route of administration, but if you've got enough to go around I don't see the harm, and I'd love to hear how it goes if you try it. :) It definitely works, whether or not it's efficient in terms of potency. I'll certainly be trying it again at some point, but I've got enough 4-HO-EPT that I promise you I'll get sick of it before I run out anyway.

cj187 said:
I don't have any scientific evidence, but it seems to be true in my experience. I have smoked 4-HO-MET and 4-HO-MiPT as a salt on top of weed, and it left a lot of burnt residue and was less potent than it would be orally. I've smoked 4-HO-DPT as a freebase and the potency was increased. There are reports of 4-HO-MPT and 4-AcO-DET freebase being very effective smoked, but people who have smoked 4-substituted tryptamines as salts usually report a loss of potency. I have smoked DPT and EPT HCl out of a freebase pipe and it actually worked pretty well, but still left a small amount of burnt residue in the pipe.

The fact that you didn't get strong effects from 25mg smoked makes me think you burned a lot of it. Smoking something should make it several times as strong as eating it. Turning something to freebase is pretty easy. Just add some baking soda, then drop some water onto it. It will immediately start fizzing, then you can smoke it when it's dry.
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Well, that is interesting, but it's still not convincing. You don't have any experiences to compare for the same chemical? Comparing 4-HO-MET and 4-HO-MiPT to 4-HO-DPT really doesn't mean much since they wouldn't be expected to have any equivalency anyway. How do you know that 4-HO-MET freebase wouldn't be even less potent for, and 4-HO-DPT fumarate wouldn't be even more? For what it's worth, I have also smoked both 4-AcO-MET and 4-AcO-DET and found the former slightly less potent than oral whereas the latter was definitely much more potent, I can't say by how much only because it far exceeded my oral experience thus far. The difference between that and your story, though, is that they were both fumarates. So again, I'm not denying that it could very well be the case that fumarates generally don't smoke well either, I just still have my doubts.

I'm sure I did burn some of it, I laced it lower in the bowl than I usually like to and I got kind of lazy with the precision and speed half way through. I have heard that that is the problem with 4-substituted tryptamines in general though too, that they burn too easily, but again I also haven't seen much scientific data to back that up either. I'm sure there are multiple things going on here, I'm just not ready to settle on one explanation yet. I definitely will try freebasing it for comparison next time if it is that easy though, so thanks for that. :)
 
You're right, I haven't experimented enough to have any conclusive results, but so far the evidence seems to point toward freebases being better for smoking. I'll probably experiment with it a bit more though. If anything, I'd like to make the 4-HO tryptamines last longer, not shorter, but I'm interested in smoking them for science.
 
If you'll let me speculate a little without taking this as actual science... Say you dissolve 4-HO-EPT salt in acetone, apply to your weed carefully and let it evaporate completely with a blow dryer or something using all the proper precautions like avoiding inhaling fumes and realizing acetone is flammable. Now when you smoke the weed, the plant material burns and turns to ash, which is alkaline and could in theory freebase the tryptamines in-situ during the smoking. That might improve the efficiency of the vaporization rather than sprinkling it on the weed as a separate layer and no need to freebase the chemical. Any chemists care to speculate? I got a gram of this stuff and time on my hands
 
^ I'm afraid I don't have the answer to that, but I would love to as well.

cj187 said:
You're right, I haven't experimented enough to have any conclusive results, but so far the evidence seems to point toward freebases being better for smoking. I'll probably experiment with it a bit more though. If anything, I'd like to make the 4-HO tryptamines last longer, not shorter, but I'm interested in smoking them for science.
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When you do, I'd love to hear all about your results. :) Though I generally agree with the sentiment that 4-substitued tryptamines need to last as long as possible, there are sometimes exceptions that are worthwhile. I do think that 4-HO-EPT might still be pretty cool at a higher dose smoked for instance due to its detached, ethereal, and already relatively short-lived nature. That could make it kind of cool both alone and when peaking on longer-lasting psychedelics too.
 
well as a rule of thumb, ionic compounds (salts) have higher melting and boiling points than the corresponding freebase because of increased intermolecular interactions. if your compound is sensitive to burning and you try to evaporate a salt, because of the higher temperature needed, a portion of it might pyrrolyse in the process.

@levels I doubt that it would work that way. why not just freebase it beforehand? by the time ash has formed, your drug will be evaporated or burned as well. also, ash might not be basic enough to deprotonate NR2H+ in appreciable amounts.
 
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