Caffinated DOx

[bjznoviskey]

"ZDCM-04" - 7-{2-[2-(4-Chloro-2,5-dimethoxy-phenyl)-1-methyl-ethylamino]-ethyl}-1,3-dimethyl-3,4,5,7-tetrahydro-purine-2,6-dione

"ZDB-05" - 7-{2-[2-(4-Bromo-2,5-dimethoxy-phenyl)-1-methyl-ethylamino]-ethyl}-1,3-dimethyl-3,4,5,7-tetrahydro-purine-2,6-dione

Above are two chems which are apparently being offered as this time. Correct me if I'm wrong but these would DOC/DOB with caffeine attached at the amine with a longer chain at caffeine's 7 position.

I'm certainly not asking if one thinks these would be enjoyable because I don't believe they would be, I care not for opinions. I'm simply curious if these would perform how whoever came up with them hopes; the two compounds separating and working independently.

 

[ungelesene_bettlek]

I'm certainly not asking if one thinks these would be enjoyable because I don't believe they would be, I care not for opinions. I'm simply curious if these would perform how whoever came up with them hopes; the two compounds separating and working independently.

The separation thing was my first thought too, but unfortunately I don't have a degree in organic chemistry... Seems like psychedelic Captagon to me...

I have to admit that I'm not too enthusiastic about these news, anyhow; I still have some mg DOC I never tried to touch because of the long duration, and I have heard that DOB isn't a real winner at all, compared to DOC, DOI and especially DOM...

 

[Xorkoth]

Hmm, seems suspect. Just attaching the caffeine structure isn't necessarily going to make some sort of combo between the two.. it might not even be active. Seems like a gimmick. Plus, the DOXs don't need caffeine, they're already stimulating.

 

[AA357]

Dafuq???

I have no idea what that would feel like.

Please remember that DOx are only amphetamines in the structural sense... they don't actually behave as amphetamines in the body. They are straight-up 5HT psychedelics.

 

[Transform]

Most likely they will act as pro-drugs for the two. This will give an extended-release version of DOx and a sub threshold dose of caffeine. Sounds like a total waste of time given the already huge duration of the DOx series.

 

[roi]

Tripping for 4 days, straight into insanity 8(

 

[Xorkoth]

Extended-release DOX? Hmmm... no, don't think I'm interested in that.

Please remember that DOx are only amphetamines in the structural sense... they don't actually behave as amphetamines in the body. They are straight-up 5HT psychedelics.

Indeed. However they do stimulate me to a degree, I certainly don't take any caffeine if I take a DOX.

 

[szuko000]

I wonder if someone actually thought "if we combine the two it will be like 1+1=2!" I hope not lol surely these are designed by chemists based on organic synthesis and not just shady business owners because i could see the latter thinking it works that way.

But yeah I would think it to be more like vyvanse, where the lysine group just makes it a prodrug, rather then the body just separating the two and using them as two separate compounds. It is interesting though, what a neat little thing to do, at least from an organic chemistry stand point.

 

[SteamboatBillJr]

The structure of Vyvanse is different. I can't comment much on how this is metabolized. I'll mention someone reportedly ate large doses of 25I-NBOMe and died. If the secondary amine bond was metabolized as y'all claim this shouldn't have resulted in fatality. Start with with an allergy test and show cautio. This could go both ways.

Incident: Elijah Stai, 2012

 

[adder]

I wonder if someone actually thought "if we combine the two it will be like 1+1=2!" I hope not lol surely these are designed by chemists based on organic synthesis and not just shady business owners because i could see the latter thinking it works that way.

But yeah I would think it to be more like vyvanse, where the lysine group just makes it a prodrug, rather then the body just separating the two and using them as two separate compounds. It is interesting though, what a neat little thing to do, at least from an organic chemistry stand point.

You'd want to believe that RC's are designed by professionals but IMO often it's far from truth as more and more random compounds are released, and they're often hit or miss. Organic chemists no matter how good at their profession often have no idea about pharmacology and drug design. So they may be hired to synthesize some compound and do a great job, but that doesn't mean it's going to be an outstanding RC.

 

[szuko000]

The structure of Vyvanse is different. I can't comment much on how this is metabolized. I'll mention someone reportedly ate large doses of 25I-NBOMe and died. If the secondary amine bond was metabolized as y'all claim this shouldn't have resulted in fatality. Start with with an allergy test and show cautio. This could go both ways.

Incident: Elijah Stai, 2012

Not the first case of someone ODing from 25I, or whatever you wish to call it. Some people have had terrible ODs without being told it was a different drug. Also I wasnt trying to say it would work like L-lysine or whatever as that can be split fairly easily. And we all know that general structure doesnt mean that it will be active, case in point MDMA vs any of its analogs, they can all have a similar shape but you tack on a different functional group, you alter the polarity slightly, you make it completely different.

But yeah I stick with traditional psyches, they are just easier

 

[Humble Bumble]

From the responses I don't get a lot of enthousiasm for caffinated DOx, can we say that most people seem to prefer decaf?

 

[roi]

ZDCM-04 is thought to be the great analog of MDMA, very powerful! And the Dosage is not more than 5mg per time,notice this pls, it is very very important!

Yo, let's advertise DOx prodrugs as MDMA analogues, what could possibly go wrong lol

 

[Skorpio]

Could this be a way to skirt laws? DOx average dose is like 1-10mg (for different ones that is why range is so big) the caffeine would not do shit at an equimolar level to even a really strong dose of dox.

I don't know as much ochem as I wish, so take this with a grain of salt, but isn't the reason vyvanse readily cleaves is because it is an amide bond rc(o)nr' where this is just an amine bond rnr' . Will that bond cleave in vivo? Amide bonds cleave because your body is loaded with peptidases, but Idk about too many enzymes that want to cleave amines. (Would Mao do this?)

Either way sounds like a weird and kind of bad drug. Either not active due to some weird metabolic fate, or a time release dox that will probably give you a too long trip, and Jack your tolerance up due to the prolonged dose infusion.

To bullshit rc producers: when making captogon style rc horror combos please do two things
1) make sure the drugs are a safe combo, nobody needs moclobenide bound to mdma.
2) if you want them to be active at both levels, and not just a shitty molecular invisibility cloak for analogue acts, make sure their active molarities line up to a reasonable ratio

 

[Friman1987]

This is the DOC/DOB version of Fenethylline/Captagon.
I dont think this will pass BBB Anyway until it metabolised to DOC.

 

[Kaleida]

Very interesting. Personally, I'd actually be really happy if they started doing this with a lot of DOx chemicals now. The DOB version at least is one I'd definitely like to get if I ever had the chance if it really is out there.

 

[roi]

This is the DOC/DOB version of Fenethylline/Captagon.
I dont think this will pass BBB Anyway until it metabolised to DOC.

Actually it's a slightly modified theophylline.

Very interesting. Personally, I'd actually be really happy if they started doing this with a lot of DOx chemicals now. The DOB version at least is one I'd definitely like to get if I ever had the chance if it really is out there.

Do you really want to trip for 4 days?

 

[Kaleida]

Do you really want to trip for 4 days?

If it's properly prepared for, why not? It's not like I dislike being on psychedelics.

 

[Transform]

Can't argue with that answer! Wouldn't be for me, personally. Not sure why they don't try this modification for 2C-B or something else with a shorter duration (and more popular!)

 

[Kaleida]

An excellent point as well, it sure would be nice to see all the 2Cs jump right back on the market in this way. And to clarify on the DOB version, I'm not saying it's something I'd do like all the time or anything with that kind of duration, but I think there's a place for it. I bet it would be cool to take a week long vacation to a cabin in the mountains for instance, to remove all responsibilities and have plenty of nature to admire and hiking opportunities to stave off vasoconstriction and burn energy. Especially with good company, where I think the phenethylamine headspace would really shine!

Of course, that's just if you really do need to take that much time off for it too. I think four days may be a bit of an overestimation; my experience with drugs so far leads me to believe that it will be mostly mild and background after the first day or maybe two no matter how long it takes to fade away after that.