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Opioids Oxycodone Potentiation Recipe/Questions. (e.g., Is it safe?)

F

fishoutofwater

Greenlighter
Joined
Jun 11, 2014
Messages
23
*I've already read a TON of threads on Bluelight on this topic so I don't feel I'm being redundant, though I am a new member*

Thoughts on this potentiation recipe for Oxycodone:
1) T-45: 600mg Cimetidine, large glass of tonic water (w/quinine), and a large glass of grapefruit (preferably white and from concentrate)
2) T-35: 30mg Dextromethorphan HBr, 4mg Chlorpheniramine Maleate, 25mg Diphenhydramine HCL, 330mg Naproxen
3) T-20: 2 Tums (applies if eating opioids)
4) T-0: Take determined opioid dose (What's the difference between chewing and just swallowing the Oxy? Does chewing just hit you faster?)
*I've also read a lot about eating fatty meals before or after dosing because the lipids helps your blood absorb the drug. Is this true? If so, how long before or after? As well as fish oils and magnesium supplements...?

What, if anything, should I change with this? I only have 220mg of Oxycodone left and won't have access to more so I want to get the most out of what I have safely and effectually. Is this recipe safe and effectual? Should I add/change any of the substances? Should I change the timeline at all?

*Also, if you're an experienced opioid/oxycodone user, I'd appreciate you commenting on my personal tolerance post in the BDD forum here: http://www.bluelight.org/vb/threads/...d-Questions%29
 
Well if your suggestions, then cut out the quinine.(tonic water). Seriously, they're is no point in it. Studies have shown that even quinidine(which is quinines much stronger isomer) has no practical effect when taken with oxycodone. Nor should it. Q is a cyp2d6 inhibitor. Cyp2d6 is a but a minor pathway for oxycodone metabolism, so 2d6 inhibition alone is simply not sufficient to "potentiate your icy experience. So cut the tonic water, it is a waste of time.

Secondly, grapefruit juice(that is, WHITE grapefruit) is a fucking amazing inhibitor for oxycodone, and once again studies have proven this. But one glass isn't enough. You need at least 1ltr of the WGJ, preferably a half-gallon.

This will (temporarily) crush first pass metabolism, bringing BA close to 100%. However, if you can stomach a half gallon of it, it will not only inhibit intestinal P450 enzymes, but also hepatic CYP3A4. This will not only up the BA, but slows down the metabolism, upping Cmax, T1/2, etc. Seriously chugging 64oz of juice is hard work, but well worth it.

So drink at least a liter of white grapefruit juice, preferably a full half gallon, along with 300-400mg Tagamet. Wait 1 hour, take an antacid and another 300-400mg Tagamet. Then take your dose, and enjoy.

Note I forgot you had Tagamet, so 1 liter of juice is sufficient, but still drink at least a liter.

I'm glad you posted this, I recently found a study testing oxycodone with WGJ and quinidine, and now I have an excuse to post it!

I will be back... ;)
 
Thanks for the reply Lorne! I have mixed feelings about the news concerning Quinine. I'm disappointed because I already bought four liters of tonic water the other day while at the store (after reading TONS of threads, albeit some relatively old ones, saying it is a proven potentiator). On the other hand, I'd much rather drink grapefruit juice than tonic water, obviously!

4 questions:
1) How big of a difference does white VS normal grapefruit juice make? I ask because I bought a bunch of grapefruit juice that appears white and said 100% juice, but after getting home I realized it doesn't actually say "White," though it doesn't look like normal grapefruit juice.

2) So are you saying that starting to load on this stuff days before is MUCH better than just drinking a half-gallon an hour or so prior?

3) What do you think of the other stuff listed? Here is an in-depth explanation of all the ingredients: http://www.hipforums.com/newforums/showthread.php?t=305596

4) What about the eating part? Does eating fatty foods really help? When/what should I eat? (I've read everything from take on an empty stomach and eat a fatty meal 45m-1hr later to the exact opposite.)

Lastly, as a new member, if you have time to go to my other thread in the BDD forum and help me determine a safe, effectual dose that won't waste any of my limited Oxy that would be GREATLY appreciated! Thanks again!

*I would just simply go find some grapefruit juice that actually says WHITE, but I am currently on crutches for awhile...
 
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I used to prepare an awesome cocktail for that...I would buy two liter of tonic water and white GF juice and mix them together to a nice fizzy drink. The tonic water adds some sweetness to the GF juice and it's actually an interesting little drink mix lol. and I'd chug/sip on a good amount an hour before. I would also take DXM prior (I'd say 30mg-60mg) and found 1.5hrs-2hrs before to be the sweet spot though 45mins-60mins works. And the nastiest for last - chug a glass of water with a tablespoon full of baking soda 20mins prior.

To be honest, this whole hustle is one of the reasons I am now beginning to become sick of opiates/oids (instead of sick from them for a change).
 
Don't the Tums replace the baking soda? And what about the 25mg Diphenhydramine HCL (antihistamine, Benadryl)?
 
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Sorry it took me so long. Stay online and I'll both of your queries...
 
fishoutofwater said:
Thanks for the reply Lorne! I have mixed feelings about the news concerning Quinine. I'm disappointed because I already bought four liters of tonic water the other day while at the store (after reading TONS of threads, albeit some relatively old ones, saying it is a proven potentiator). On the other hand, I'd much rather drink grapefruit juice than tonic water, obviously!

4 questions:
1) How big of a difference does white VS normal grapefruit juice make? I ask because I bought a bunch of grapefruit juice that appears white and said 100% juice, but after getting home I realized it doesn't actually say "White," though it doesn't look like normal grapefruit juice.

2) So are you saying that starting to load on this stuff days before is MUCH better than just drinking a half-gallon an hour or so prior?

3) What do you think of the other stuff listed? Here is an in-depth explanation of all the ingredients: http://www.hipforums.com/newforums/showthread.php?t=305596

4) What about the eating part? Does eating fatty foods really help? When/what should I eat? (I've read everything from take on an empty stomach and eat a fatty meal 45m-1hr later to the exact opposite.)

Lastly, as a new member, if you have time to go to my other thread in the BDD forum and help me determine a safe, effectual dose that won't waste any of my limited Oxy that would be GREATLY appreciated! Thanks again!

*I would just simply go find some grapefruit juice that actually says WHITE, but I am currently on crutches for awhile...
Click to expand...


The difference between white and red GJ is huge. Seriously, I wouldn't waste time with any other type. But, somewhere I have a chart of the various types of GFJ, and which ones are worthy potentiators, if you could tell me the type, it might help.

The problem is that most other types of "grapefruit juice" are actually cocktails, which contain little actual GJ. Even if it says 100% juice, it may not be pure GJ. If it is, then it might be worth a shot, though you'll have to drink A LOT of it.

And yes, it is much better to load up for a few days. Personally, I'd start with half a gallon of WGJ one day, plus at least a gram of cimetidine (Tagamet) split into 2 doses to avoid side effects, the next day, drink another half gallon of WGJ as soon as you wake up, then take a gram of cimetidine along with an antacid(ironically enough, cimetidine does not absorb well in an acidic environment). All that will give you near 100% BA of your oxycodone, and it will increase half-life. In fact it may even push the BA to over 100%, by increasing the auc
 
Thanks again for the response. Here's the exact type of GJ I have: http://westernfamily.com/products/100-juice-grapefruit/ . It didn't look red at all so I just bought it without thinking, though it didn't actually say "White." I just drank a half gallon of it as well as a liter of tonic water. (I figured I'd drink the tonic water since I bought it and others have said it helps). I've also taken a gram of Cimetidine today with 4 Tums. Lastly, I have also taken over 60mg of Dextromethorphan HBr and over 10mg Chlorpheniramine Maleate today (You haven't commented on these two?).

I was actually going to take my Oxy tonight, but now I'm thinking I'm going to wait and do it tomorrow after drinking another half-gallon of grapefruit juice in the morning (with another liter of tonic water since I have it), and another gram of Cimetidine with 4 Tums split into two doses.

I just have these questions left, are you able to answer them? Thanks for your help:

1) Is that grapefruit juice OK or is it worth getting a different kind? I have a whole gallon left of it, so I could just drink more of it if that will make up the difference?
2) What about when to eat? Should I take the Oxy on an empty stomach or full? And should I eat a fatty meal before or after?
3) What about all this I read about antihistamines being good potentiators like Benadryl (I have a bunch of it; and Claritin to remove the itch)?
4) Could you clarify what "auc" means?
5) Lastly, as a sort of side note, I have done VERY little reading about the effects of Oxy on sex-drive/orgasm. I'm sure it's different for everyone, but what has been your general idea/experience? (I ask because I very likely will be having sex tomorrow night... ha)

*I'm planning to take about 50mg Oxy tomorrow afternoon after this process. I would appreciate it if you read my other thread I've cited in the BDD to help me determine my dosage since you seem quite knowledgeable and very willing to help: http://www.bluelight.org/vb/threads/725824-New-Member-Please-Help-(Opioid-Questions) . I'm worried that even with this awesome potentiation process that 50mg might be too little, but you would know much better than I. THANKS AGAIN!
 
1. Should be fine as it does not seem to have even a tinge of pink or red.
2. If taking oxy orally, full stomach will produce the greatest effects but this also can cause more gastrointestinal issues such as constipation and nausea.
3. I personally never really found it so much of a potentiator and some say it increases the nod, which would make sense since it will cause respiratory depression along with the opiate so that effect will be enhanced but this also increases the danger. I only really took Benadryl if I got super itchy. I find oxy to have a sort of a stimulant effect combined with CNS depression at first and then it would bring me to a nod and I like that wakey feeling to last as long as possible.
4. I believe it means 'area under the curve' which essentially means the effects of the drug. Increasing auc means increasing the effects of the drug. Lorne??? and others could probably explain the details on this one much better than I can.
5. Lookit you. I can't really say because my wife has been overseas for the time I have been taking meds regularly but if she was here I don't believe it would be an issue at all for me =D. Some have said they enjoy it but research indicates that eventually long-term use of opiates lowers the libido and provides substitute sexual satisfaction. This again is why when the opiates are ceased in long-term users, one of the wd's symptoms is a drastic increase in sex drive just like all the nervous system symptoms (sweating, chills, hot flashes etc.) as the body tries to regain homeostasis.
Here is an abstract of a research paper on the topic: http://psycnet.apa.org/psycinfo/1985-08929-001
 
Thanks Numb19 for sharing your experience and knowledge. It's good to hear that I hopefully won't have trouble with sex tonight. :) (Thanks for the cited research paper; I will read that.) You have now mentioned between both of my threads the importance of taking the dose on a full stomach but with some contradiction:

Numb19 (from other thread) said:
I don't think taking oxy, at least orally, will be stronger when taken on a full stomach. Having said that, I do remember reading that eating some fatty foods 2-3 hours prior or right after dosing might can increase the effects by up to 30% but again everyone is different. You will probably have to play around with this but it is only logical to consider that on a full stomach, the oxycodone is going to compete with all that food for metabolization
Click to expand...

Could you please clarify where you stand on this? That is, should I eat a fatty meal 2-3 hours prior, right before, or about an hour after?

Thanks for your feedback on the antihistamine angle (I take a few Claritin allergy melts for the itch). If I am going for that euphoria that I've felt before do you think I should just leave Bendryl out all together or take it like an hour after dosing??

Oh, and you never answered my question about the baking soda with water... Don't Tums replace that step? I've read that if you DON'T have an antacid to take with Cimetidine that taking baking soda instead works. Anyone?

And Lorne???, I'd still love your feedback on all this when you're back online and have a chance. Thanks guys!
 
fishoutofwater said:
Thanks again for the response. Here's the exact type of GJ I have: http://westernfamily.com/products/100-juice-grapefruit/ . It didn't look red at all so I just bought it without thinking, though it didn't actually say "White." I just drank a half gallon of it as well as a liter of tonic water. (I figured I'd drink the tonic water since I bought it and others have said it helps). I've also taken a gram of Cimetidine today with 4 Tums. Lastly, I have also taken over 60mg of Dextromethorphan HBr and over 10mg Chlorpheniramine Maleate today (You haven't commented on these two?).

I was actually going to take my Oxy tonight, but now I'm thinking I'm going to wait and do it tomorrow after drinking another half-gallon of grapefruit juice in the morning (with another liter of tonic water since I have it), and another gram of Cimetidine with 4 Tums split into two doses.

I just have these questions left, are you able to answer them? Thanks for your help:

1) Is that grapefruit juice OK or is it worth getting a different kind? I have a whole gallon left of it, so I could just drink more of it if that will make up the difference?
2) What about when to eat? Should I take the Oxy on an empty stomach or full? And should I eat a fatty meal before or after?
3) What about all this I read about antihistamines being good potentiators like Benadryl (I have a bunch of it; and Claritin to remove the itch)?
4) Could you clarify what "auc" means?
5) Lastly, as a sort of side note, I have done VERY little reading about the effects of Oxy on sex-drive/orgasm. I'm sure it's different for everyone, but what has been your general idea/experience? (I ask because I very likely will be having sex tomorrow night... ha)

*I'm planning to take about 50mg Oxy tomorrow afternoon after this process. I would appreciate it if you read my other thread I've cited in the BDD to help me determine my dosage since you seem quite knowledgeable and very willing to help: http://www.bluelight.org/vb/threads/725824-New-Member-Please-Help-(Opioid-Questions) . I'm worried that even with this awesome potentiation process that 50mg might be too little, but you would know much better than I. THANKS AGAIN!
Click to expand...

Sorry man, I had something force me off of the computer last night, and I never had a chance to get back on! To tackle your questions real quick:

1. That juice looks fine. Although it is preferable to get a brand that says "white", frankly that looks as white as can be. All you can do now is try. It's real GJ, so at worst it might be less potent if it isn't pure white. But I assure you, the effects if franking LARGE amounts of GJ are not at all subtle, so you'll know if it worked. Either way, go for "white" next time, believe it or not, Ocean Spray works quite well.

2. Don't eat with them. The thing about taking with a high-fat meal actually applies to methadone, NOT oxycodone. It works for methadone because of it's high lipid(fat) solubility. Oxy is more hydrophilic, so the same doesn't apply. In any case, with massive amounts of GJ, cimetidine, and an antacid to boot, they're us literally no way you could possibly increase absorption. Like seriously, you'll already be getting basically 100% BA, and clogging up your liver enzymes, it could exceed that.

3. Yes, anti-histamine a are good potentiators, because they remove unwanted side effects, in addition to having analgesic-sparing properties. And they are great for intensifying the nod. However, they work more through "synergy", and unlike your other cocktail components, they don't appreciably inhibit metabolism. While on the subject, you want to stick with 1st generation anti-histamines like diphenhydramine(Benadryl). Claritin will help ease side effects like itching and nausea, but is not any good for synergy unless you take a large dose.(you can look up the difference between 1st and 2nd gen antihistamines on wiki, and I'll prob post a list later)

4.AUC is something you don't need to worry about. I was merely demonstrating that, because you will be inhibiting hepatic enzymes in addition to intestinal enzymes, you will not only increase BA(to near 100%), but that you'll also increase half-life, and if fucked with enough, you can eventually increase it to a point that your AUC ends up exceeding that of IV use. You know that BA is determine by comparing plasma levels of IV vs other MOA's, they use AUC to determine this, iV is always 100%, but under extreme circumstances it's possible to freeze metabolism to a point that the plasma levels end up higher/holding longer, thus creating an even larger AUC, and this exceeding an apparent BA of 100%, though that is quite rare.

5. Opioids definitely reduce(and even eliminate) sex drive, especially with chronic use and/or high doses, but of all the opioids available, IME, oxycodone is the easiest to become aroused and maintain orgasm, even at high doses.

Any more Q's, just ask, and I should get around to your other post eventually!!!!
 
No worries mate! Thanks for such an in-depth response! So after DAYS of reading and talking with y'all, here's what I've come up with as my "Ultimate Oxycodone Potentiation Recipe" (where all potentiatiors are OTC):

Step 1) Preferably consume as much WHITE Grapefruit Juice as possible starting even 5 days before taking Oxy.
Step 2) In the 24 hours preceding Oxy dose, drink a whole gallon of white grapefruit juice (And a liter or two of tonic water if it works for you...). Most likely drinking a half gallon of WGJ juice the night before with 500mg Cimetidine followed by 2 Tums. Then the day of dose, drink the other half gallon of WGJ juice with another 500mg of Cimetidine followed by 2 more Tums.
Step 3) 2 - 4 hours prior to dose, take 30mg Dextromethorphan HBr and 4mg Chlorpheniramine Maleate.
Step 4) 1 - 2 hours prior to dose, again take 30mg Dextromethorphan HBr and 4mg Chlorpheniramine Maleate. (Be careful if pills contain acetaminophen!)
Step 5) 30 minutes before take 25mg Diphenhydramine HCL (or 12.5mg Doxylamine Succinate) and 330mg Naproxen
Step 6) Take Oxycodone dosage according to personal tolerance and desired high. (Be sure to have eaten 3 hours prior.)
Step 7) Load again on Cimetidine (400mg) and Tums every hour. (And possibly take one more 25mg Diphenhydramine? More WGJ?)

So what do you think guys?! I'm about to try this in a few hours. Just finishing my second half gallon of WGJ and liter of tonic water while I eat some greek yogurt to get some protein in me since I won't be eating for awhile. I'm really hoping this works and that it doesn't fuck up (no pun intended) my sex tonight.

Lorne???, again, thanks for being so helpful. You too, Numb19. I've added y'all as friends on here. I'd still love to hear your final thoughts on this recipe AND your estimations after reading my other thread (it's really not too long) on how much I Oxy I should take... Thanks!
 
Lorne, I left my laptop right as I posted that new thread. I'll be back to it in about 30 min to an hour, maybe sooner. I tried PMing you this but my phone isn't giving me the option to. Thanks for reading over my other thread in the BDD. I'm interested in what else you have to say...
 
On the sex question, when I was younger I could maintain an erection and go for hours on oxy but these days, not so much. I've been on pretty high doses for 25-30 years and things just do not work right on that stuff. I actually believe chronic usage lowers your T-levels and in turn, your libido etc.
 
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