Ultra Enhanced Indo 830mg - 1st Trial - Incredible, But Not Much Like Kratom

[《Plasticity》]

Oddly, acquisition of tolerance to kratom didn't affect my response to hydrocodone much.

You see, this has been the case for me and I've been an everyday user for ~4 years now. I just don't think plain leaf is a strong enough mu agonist to cause any sort of significant tolerance to full agonist opioids, I think it's only when people get into extracts that people get significant cross-tolerance. I mean I can get high off nearly the same doses of opioids as I was able to before getting on kratom.

I think the main reason amanitadine experiences extreme tolerance is because he uses insane doses of these synthetic extracts, in the kratom megathread he states that his dose of UEI is 7 grams on top of his normal plain leaf dose and his dose of FST is a whole 2ml bottle 8(, no wonder he's experiencing severe tolerance. Also he has said a few times that he has a huge history of prior opiate abuse and we all know that once you get addicted even once how easy it is to re instate your previous tolerance, especially with these insane extract doses as well as having an increased severity of withdrawals despite the mu agonist in question.

For example, say someone has a 250mg a day oxy habit and switches to kratom. This persons tolerance would be reduced but if this person starts eating huge doses of these potent extracts equivalent to god knows how much oxy your tolerance is gonna shoot right back up, I believe this phenomena is known as "kindling" and it seems very apparent this is the cause of such a huge tolerance in amanita's case. There's no fucking way any amount of plain leaf will cause a tolerance so significant to render 180mgs of oxy useless, especially when I dose near 30gs daily and still get high from 40mgs of oxy. The combination of extract use and prior history is to blame IMO no doubt, maybe kratom didn't help but you can't blame your tolerance issues solely on kratom, that's extremely unfair.

 

[Hammilton]

30g a day, but how much at a time? I always find out frustrating when people list their tolerances as daily quantities when we all know that while I can take 130mg of oxy in a day, I'd go blue from half that in a single dose.

My tolerance is definitely maintained by plain leaf, if not raised. I'd do a 45mg line of oxy right now if I could. Sounds really good actually...

Strange though, because after I stopped using subs 15mg would get me high. After two months of just plain leaf, I need 45. However, both when I stopped then and now, a 2mg sub would get me high, and there's no change in strength.

 

[《Plasticity》]

30g a day, but how much at a time? I always find out frustrating when people list their tolerances as daily quantities when we all know that while I can take 130mg of oxy in a day, I'd go blue from half that in a single dose.

My tolerance is definitely maintained by plain leaf, if not raised. I'd do a 45mg line of oxy right now if I could. Sounds really good actually...

Strange though, because after I stopped using subs 15mg would get me high. After two months of just plain leaf, I need 45. However, both when I stopped then and now, a 2mg sub would get me high, and there's no change in strength.

3 9-10g doses per day. I'm not saying that kratom raises no tolerance, it just doesn't raise my tolerance above 40mgs of oxy if I've only been dosing plain leaf. I haven't used any extracts in a good 6 months and I've never been addicted to opiates so I'm on a rather clean slate. There's no denying that having multiple prior addictions and dosing insane doses of pseudo-indoxy extracts will play a huge role in him not even getting high on 180mgs of oxy. Plain leaf just has a limit to how high you can get and the effects just don't really get stronger than maybe a 30mg oral oxy high, how would that amount of mu agonism induce a 180mg oxy tolerance, I just don't see it happening no matter how much kratom you consume, in amanita's case he said 50gs a day so that's not too far from 30gs a day, at most, and this is being generous, would likely cause a 60-70mg tolerance.

 

[cashfl0w_d0nkey]

My experience with this is that kratom indeed raised my tolerance to oxycodone. I can pretty reliably drop my tolerance back down to the point where I can get good effects from ~15mg oral or ~10mg snorted, but when I tried this on the tail end of a few weeks of kratom use, my tolerance was higher than expected.

 

[amanitadine]

Captain- I haven't used extracts in a long time....over a year. And before I quit plain leaf my dose was 50g a day....7g every 4 hours. My few experiences with opioids were during this period of strictly plain leaf. I was never a regular user of extracts....just the occasional high dose day every few months.

Tha being said,i was a heroin addict for a long time, then methadone and suboxone....so I have a pretty high tolerance to opioids. I went right from 2 mg of suboxone to plain leaf Kratom.....at first I dosed 15 g 3x daily. Then cut it down to 8g x3 daily after the first month. Tolerance grew, and I ended up at 7 x7 for the last year and a half of my Kratom use.

There is no reason why Kratom wouldnt raise tolerance to other opioids.

Edit- that kid in the thread who went from Kratom to suboxone also reported a similar experience to mine... He didn't have a real history with opioids, but had been dosing 50-60 g of leaf a day for several years, and also reported getting minimal effects from 200 mg of oxycodone during this period. Tolerance is tolerance, and Kratom is an opioid that raises such. YMMV of course, but taking huge doses of it will undoubtedly raise your tolerance to all opioids.

 

[strigoi]

30g a day, but how much at a time? I always find out frustrating when people list their tolerances as daily quantities when we all know that while I can take 130mg of oxy in a day, I'd go blue from half that in a single dose.
.

Not if you are asking me, but when I said "30mg dose" , I meant a one a day 30mg dose. All at once. Apologizes.

 

[Hammilton]

I was talking to those taking kratom, when I said 30g, I meant 30g, someone taking 30mg of oxy wouldn't be suspected of dividing it over 24hrs

 

[《Plasticity》]

My experience with this is that kratom indeed raised my tolerance to oxycodone. I can pretty reliably drop my tolerance back down to the point where I can get good effects from ~15mg oral or ~10mg snorted, but when I tried this on the tail end of a few weeks of kratom use, my tolerance was higher than expected.

Of course it did, never said kratom doesn't raise tolerance but has your kratom use (if using plain leaf) raised tolerance past 100+mgs of oxy?

Captain- I haven't used extracts in a long time....over a year. And before I quit plain leaf my dose was 50g a day....7g every 4 hours. My few experiences with opioids were during this period of strictly plain leaf. I was never a regular user of extracts....just the occasional high dose day every few months.

Tha being said,i was a heroin addict for a long time, then methadone and suboxone....so I have a pretty high tolerance to opioids. I went right from 2 mg of suboxone to plain leaf Kratom.....at first I dosed 15 g 3x daily. Then cut it down to 8g x3 daily after the first month. Tolerance grew, and I ended up at 7 x7 for the last year and a half of my Kratom use.

There is no reason why Kratom wouldnt raise tolerance to other opioids.

Edit- that kid in the thread who went from Kratom to suboxone also reported a similar experience to mine... He didn't have a real history with opioids, but had been dosing 50-60 g of leaf a day for several years, and also reported getting minimal effects from 200 mg of oxycodone during this period. Tolerance is tolerance, and Kratom is an opioid that raises such. YMMV of course, but taking huge doses of it will undoubtedly raise your tolerance to all opioids.

Again, I'm not saying kratom doesn't raise tolerance, just not nearly to the extent that 180mgs of oxy is worthless. Xorkoth had no prior history of addiction and was using kratom in amounts similar to you for 6 years iirc and even he states that he can get high off lowish doses of oxy. There's just no way someone with a clean slate, using very little to no extracts is gonna get a tolerance to make 180mgs of oxy totally worthless. Does kratom create some cross/tolerance? Yeah but not nearly as much as your making it out to be IME. Your smart enough to know that being an ex heroin/suboxone/mehadone addict is gonna play a big role in the severity of your tolerance and withdrawal . 4 years of daily use, 2.5-3 of those years around the 30g daily range (give or take of course) has created surpisingly low tolerance... before kratom I would use around 30mgs of oxy per dose but now it takes about 50mgs to get to that level however 40mgs will still provide a satisfying high.

 

[Hammilton]

Got 24 more grams of uei today. Ate 1.25g as soon as the guy left. Felt it, but apparently a week isn't enough to eliminate all tolerance. Can't wait until 2am so I can eat a proper dose.

Tomorrow I plan on doing a 1.5ml test with fst. I'll post the results here. Am I able to modify the thread title to reflect the collection of experiences? Or should I start a new one?

 

[Xorkoth]

A mod is able to modify the title, maybe post what you'd like to change it to or PM one of them with it.

Careful man, you don't want to get addicted to opiates. I got real bad with kratom, it grew to many times per day for 7 years. I never intended for it to, it's a slippery slope, be vigilant. That's all I'll say about that, but I felt I had to say it because opiates have been the single worst thing in my life, I've done so much damage and I'm not through it yet.

 

[Hammilton]

I'm afraid that boat sailed ten years ago. I've used opiates almost daily since spring of 04. Longest I've made it truly clean was maybe 3 months. Long time with pods, and vics, then subs, then done, then subs, then h roxi, oc, vics, back to subs for a few years. I love opiates very very much, it was love at first sight, really. From the first vicodin I took I was in love. Haven't ruined my life over them, though. On a bit of an upward trend really, making more money now than I thought I ever would.

 

[Xorkoth]

Oh okay then, that's actually EXACTLY when I started using opiates, weird. It was kratom only for me for 7 years then I started on poppy tea (and had a 2 week fling with heroin and another time for a week years later). I've used oxy and hydro and pure morphine but I have only been addicted to kratom, poppy tea and briefly heroin (two different times, physical dependence even from such a short time both times).

 

[Hammilton]

You started using kratom in 04? Man you've lived through some major market changes. I first tried it in April 04 and there was nothing like there is today. Then the only vendor to have confirmed product was in Madison and it still took two weeks for it to arrive. It had me nodding proper. I made the tea in the dorm basement lol

 

[Xorkoth]

Yeah I used to use an online vendor based in Chicago. I found it in a random head shop and saw that it was supposed to be stimulating and relaxing, so I read about it (it was hard to find information), and a few days later bought the 10 grams for like $5. I made a tea out of it a few days later and drank it, and oh my god, I loved it SO MUCH. A bit later I found the vendor and bought a pound. All they had at the time was lightly crushed leaf. I always used to make the double extraction, the traditional method. My early kratom highs were absolutely glorious, to this day my favorite opiate experiences of any opiate. I believe I wrote the first TR for Erowid, or maybe the second. NO ONE knew about it when I started, I introduced a lot of people though. It's gained in popularity so much now, it's crazy.

 

[Hammilton]

Yeah, I'm pretty sure it was your report that made me want to try it. I did the same, and the leaves I would get were practically whole. The leaves today feel like sandpaper in my stomach, I worry about ulcers as a result of it, because it hurts really bad sometimes. I try to get the new finely powdered stuff now, and mix the more coarse stuff with yogurt, the rest with applesauce.

I think I did an ounce my first time, maybe half of one, as tea. I dunno why, but I can still do half an ounce or an ounce if I make tea, but feel a buzz off 4 or 5g mixed with applesauce. The experience is different, more dizzy and less euphoric, but I'm trying to use it for maintenance, not to get high. That's apparently what I buy UEI for. I gotta have my wife lock that up for me, because it's been seven and a half hours since I took it and I'm still itchy and decidedly feeling good still.

I liked pods because they were so dreamy, uei is just euphoric unfortunately. Perhaps it'd be more noddy with a benadryl or two

 

[cashfl0w_d0nkey]

After my slightly-too-high dose of 1g last time, I took 750mg last night and had a fairly good experience. Effects were moderately strong and for the most part enjoyable, but there is still a bit of a sense of dirtiness to the high that I get from kratom that I don't like vs. opiates. It certainly has value for what it is, though.

I will probably try the FST next time I purchase-- Has anyone mixed the FST and UEI?

 

[scandy01]

I haven't read this entire thread but just wanted to post a warning regarding UEI. I was addicted for a year, landed in the psych ward and got clean. Went back on and landed back in the psych ward. Obviously I'm not saying Kratom causes you to go crazy. Plain leaf doesn't have that affect and really is self regulating as I hate swallowing so much powder. Its a wonderful plant that has saved lives, I know people off heroin because of it so it has a purpose and is healthier than any medication a doctor prescribes. I'm certain of that. It's just that UEI is much stronger, and It just doesn't feel the same or affect the body the same. I am a firm believer that kratom is amazing and is the reason I was able to jump off 75mg methadone cold turkey after 3 years of suboxone. But I have bipolar disorder (didn't take it seriously) and I would just caution anyone who has any type of predispotion for psychiatric issues, PLEASE be extremely cautious when it comes to taking UEI 24/7 for months on end. It will become an issue as it does cause severe w/d (just as bad as opiates, worse for me)...and for me, as much as I wish I could take it it just makes me sick. But I will say not when taken periodically, But I'm no good at that I use it like literal medicine, but I have always used opiates in extremely controlled regular doses like medication to deal with depression. Just took 2 trips to the hospital in 8 mo to realize UEI makes me manic as hell. I went increasingly insane for months, went into paranoid psychosis, finished destroying a marriage & couldn't work & let my credit score go from 770 to 530 in 12 mo. while I neglected my bills for the first time in my life to keep taking it. I was convinced it was the only key to my happiness. I still struggle not wanting to take it as it feels amazing. I take the regular atm but am already sick of it. Uei is IMO much better than Oxy could ever hope to be (I took mainly percocet for 10 yrs. before rehab) but it has to be respected and for people starting at doses over a gram makes me really nervous to hear if you ever plan on taking it again as it gets so much worse from there. And at BEST prices w/ bulk discounts its INSANELY expensive to maintain. I spent multiple thousands of dollars and I was frugal as hell never increasing my frequency or dose, taken at the same exact time each day. So for an addict I was disciplined and very controlled & so many people aren't so lucky, and even then i let it consume & destroy my life and mind. So please, just respect it...as it's just like any other opiate but almost worse as it's legal and much much more expensive. I fear Uei will be the reason kratom's legality will come into question in the future once more people start taking it. Yet I don't think it should be made illegal I just think people need to understand the risks & realize it's nothing to take lightly and I would take oxy w/d over Uei w/d ANY day. Also to note for reference I WAS also on effexor which both hospital psychiatrists told me was likely making me manic as well, and I smoke dank. So Idk if they all worked together somehow, but I just don't recommend messing w/ it if you feel yourself using it to deal w/ anxiety or depression. I ended up so insane it took 300mg of seroquel to knock me back into reality. Who knows what caused what but the lethal ingredient for me unfortunately is uei.

 

[al-laddin]

Yeah I used to use an online vendor based in Chicago. I found it in a random head shop and saw that it was supposed to be stimulating and relaxing, so I read about it (it was hard to find information), and a few days later bought the 10 grams for like $5. I made a tea out of it a few days later and drank it, and oh my god, I loved it SO MUCH. A bit later I found the vendor and bought a pound. All they had at the time was lightly crushed leaf. I always used to make the double extraction, the traditional method. My early kratom highs were absolutely glorious, to this day my favorite opiate experiences of any opiate. I believe I wrote the first TR for Erowid, or maybe the second. NO ONE knew about it when I started, I introduced a lot of people though. It's gained in popularity so much now, it's crazy.

HAHA the good ol days eh xorkoth?? I only tried it two years ago when I quit drinking and I knew that I fell in love...I to used to have nodding and hypnogic bliss....Kratom has been my security blanket of sorts...I can mess around with opiates and then get back on kratom and never have to deal with the withdrawal. I use 6grams 3 times a day roughly and I have never had more than slightly achy VERY restless trhee days.....guys this stuff is very easy to wean /taper off...I think its highly unfair to treat it so bitterly and say that its AS bad as real opiates....it doesn't cause fatal ODs its shorter half life and less moreish qualities make tapering a breeze AND Ive known many ex opiate users get on kratom....taper off kratom and dodge the PAWS bullet...seriously Ive had three people tell me that they DID NOT experience PAWS after kratom. I have also take a two month and three month break respectively and experienced no PAWS....admittedly I was using less then than I am now. So it may be different now.....but honestly guys....its lesser of two evils here...ITS a lot easier to take the right precautions and avoid a severe addiction with kratom and if you find yourself there its STILL easier to come off of...for most....there may be a few of you out there that find it to be on par with real opiates ....but for me and many others ITS A LIFESAVER. With all due respect I don't mean this in a condescending or preachy way.....lets just not take what we have for granted....because if they swipe this away from us.....you bet many of us are gonna go out, look for and find a much more severe problem on are hands.


On a brighter note for harm reduction purposes could someone give me an estimate and compare say 1 gram of ssUEI to X amount of oxy/hydro in milgrams? Also the same with ssFST... and what is this OEB all about? how would you compare the strength of that? Someone else also mention an extract that was VERY stimulating at 50mg? Did this one have opiod action to ? And how was the overall effect of it. Sorry about all the questions , I just don't know too much about extracts although I have messed with them and I know the goto vendors for them.

 

[Xorkoth]

HAHA the good ol days eh xorkoth?? I only tried it two years ago when I quit drinking and I knew that I fell in love...I to used to have nodding and hypnogic bliss....Kratom has been my security blanket of sorts...I can mess around with opiates and then get back on kratom and never have to deal with the withdrawal. I use 6grams 3 times a day roughly and I have never had more than slightly achy VERY restless trhee days.....guys this stuff is very easy to wean /taper off...I think its highly unfair to treat it so bitterly and say that its AS bad as real opiates....it doesn't cause fatal ODs its shorter half life and less moreish qualities make tapering a breeze AND Ive known many ex opiate users get on kratom....taper off kratom and dodge the PAWS bullet...seriously Ive had three people tell me that they DID NOT experience PAWS after kratom. I have also take a two month and three month break respectively and experienced no PAWS....admittedly I was using less then than I am now. So it may be different now.....but honestly guys....its lesser of two evils here...ITS a lot easier to take the right precautions and avoid a severe addiction with kratom and if you find yourself there its STILL easier to come off of...for most....there may be a few of you out there that find it to be on par with real opiates ....but for me and many others ITS A LIFESAVER. With all due respect I don't mean this in a condescending or preachy way.....lets just not take what we have for granted....because if they swipe this away from us.....you bet many of us are gonna go out, look for and find a much more severe problem on are hands.


On a brighter note for harm reduction purposes could someone give me an estimate and compare say 1 gram of ssUEI to X amount of oxy/hydro in milgrams? Also the same with ssFST... and what is this OEB all about? how would you compare the strength of that? Someone else also mention an extract that was VERY stimulating at 50mg? Did this one have opiod action to ? And how was the overall effect of it. Sorry about all the questions , I just don't know too much about extracts although I have messed with them and I know the goto vendors for them.

Well I did a bit more than you're talking about (still, I'm surprised it was so mild for you at dosing 3 times every day), but I did find the withdrawal terrible, as bad in its own way as poppy tea withdrawals, but it was much shorter and I never experienced PAWS afterwards, either. It's definitely the lesser of two evils, no double.

 

[al-laddin]

Also, noticed my tolerance has not increased at all with kratom and Ive been using it for 2 years...my frequency of use has but tolerance really hasn't. The max I would use was 8-10 grams plain leaf....now I don't even need to take more than 6 to get FULL effects. I fact I cant really take more or Ill get some dysphoric effects and waste the buzz. Am I alone in this? My frequency of use is now a solid 3x a day , whereas before it was 3 max but I would skip days here and there and often only take it once or twce a day. So that's really the only difference. My total amount per day has increased. But either way its pretty uncanny stuff...an opiod that just doesn't seem to have a tolerance build up ....at least not fast. Two years daily of any opiate and your toly would be through the roof


In regards to the PAWS. I had a friend come off of IV heroin (really wanted to quit bad) and I helped him get started with Kratom. He stayed on it for 6 months before tapering. I came to the conclusion that kratom must stabilize and replace your old dependence fully before tapering from it in order to see reduction in PAWS. The other thing that we all had in common about coming off of kratom is very low intensity cravings. I mean like, easy to ignore. Ive had some brief mild dependence on a few opiates like you describe, Xorkoth, and found the cravings to be quite maddening.