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Opioids The Kratom Mega Thread v3

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The production and demand of UEI and equivalents is the major - if not the only - reason, that it will get banned. Everyone who ignores that must have the comprehension of a 6-year-old. There was a time, when (natural plain leaf) Kratom was used to come off Opium (and later opiates, opioids). Nowadays the people don't want to come off, they are so greedy, that they want to maintain their high (and the accompanying addiction) at all costs. Subsequently they'll ruin the option for people, that really need it as a withdrawal remedy in low doses, i.e. ex pain patients (post surgery). If that is not the peak of antisocial behaviour, I don't know. (But maybe it is just an educational lack).

UEI has only remotely to do with the untweaked plain leaf, that Kratom provides in its natural habitat.
 
^fuck that ziirp people should be allowed to use whatever substance they want for whatever reason, especially one less harmful than tobbaco.
 
^ I strongly disagree Ziirp. Bonafide UEI is not sold in headshops, and headshops and OTC sales are the reason behind all the shit stories, hysteria, and rush to ban. After the cathinones and cannabinoids were removed from the shelves, Kratom is what is left. The "legal high available at your headshop or gas station" proved to be GREAT news fodder, so now Kratom is getting lumped in...as evidenced by the way these bills are structured, as well as the news stories....it's not some conspiracy involving "Big Pharma" , which seems to be the running theory amongst Kratom zealots....many of whom read Alex Jones and Natural News and take them seriously, and whose biggest argument for Kratom is that it is "Natural". I certainly don't want the plant banned, but I like to see reason dictate beliefs!

How does UEI fit into all this in any way?
 
Hammilton said:
Yeah, I'd like to interview him before there's a ban, I'd like to see his process so it can be preserved in the event of a ban here, get his take on things, learn what I can about the industry and the production of uei, the chemistry.
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Me too, but good luck! I used to communicate with him a decade or so ago, he is a brilliant chemist and has loads of information of various botanicals...but he has turned quite private, kind of insane, arrests, other drugs, and at this point denies involvement half the time! His legal troubles and unreliability led to the temporary halt of UEI and FST a few years ago...he was wise enough to use his piles of cash to buy some land in Central America and attempt to start a Mitragyna plantation...I know from past converstions that he developed a process eliminating the lead tetraacetate from the acetylation of mitragynine on the way to the phenol, and has surpassed the knowledge pool of the Japanese fellas who were doing some SAR work on Mitragynine around the turn of the millennium....but a lot of mystery remains..
 
f33lg00d said:
^fuck that ziirp people should be allowed to use whatever substance they want for whatever reason, especially one less harmful than tobbaco.
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Of course. I'm with you on that. But it is not the way our society works atm. The availability of tweaked products like UEI and the demand thereof will accelerate the banning procedure significantly. Because in a higher concentration the alkaloides are much more powerful and intoxicating so that it feels like an entirely different substance. But people will link the experiences to Kratom and think, that you get those effects when chewing on one leaf, which is bollocks.

UEI is to Kratom what Cocaine is to Coca Leaf.

amanitadine said:
^ I strongly disagree Ziirp. Bonafide UEI is not sold in headshops, and headshops and OTC sales are the reason behind all the shit stories, hysteria, and rush to ban. After the cathinones and cannabinoids were removed from the shelves, Kratom is what is left. The "legal high available at your headshop or gas station" proved to be GREAT news fodder, so now Kratom is getting lumped in...as evidenced by the way these bills are structured, as well as the news stories....it's not some conspiracy involving "Big Pharma" , which seems to be the running theory amongst Kratom zealots....many of whom read Alex Jones and Natural News and take them seriously, and whose biggest argument for Kratom is that it is "Natural". I certainly don't want the plant banned, but I like to see reason dictate beliefs!

How does UEI fit into all this in any way?
Click to expand...

As mentioned above. UEI will obviously get linked to Kratom and the terms will be used synonymously in laymen discussions and subsequently also by the authorities. I don't get the raison d'etre of UEI. If people want to get high on opiates, why aren't they buying proper opiates. Yes, (7-ho-)mitragynine has a similar analgesic potency as morphine. But the concentration in an average leaf is pretty minor, so in the end for an opioid-tolerant individual, plain leaf is great to alleviate WD without prolonging the addiction. Taking UEI as a substitute is kind of self-deluding. Your receptors won't recover properly if you fire them with another potent agonist.
 
I'm not suggesting that UEI is a good thing for the market, I haven't tried it yet, but I would say that it's not the biggest problem. The people using it are mostly those with other kratom experience and the ones least likely to od or end up in hospital from it. It's the otc and headshop availability that'll ruin it.
 
Kratom would have much less attention brought to it if everyone could stick to plain leaf, and kept out of head shops. Kratom is an amazingly useful remedy for so many things. If there is a ban, ill fight to the end, then if i have to, ill move somewhere i can get it. The united states has gotten so out of hand within the last 10 years or so its extremely frustrating... For me, that would definitely be the last straw.
 
I've only had a couple of experiences with Kratom, I've tried both Bali Kratom and Thai Kratom.

The "premium" Bali Kratom I tried in doses from 4g-12g. At the low doses, it was comparable to a mix of maybe 10mg Hydrocodone and a couple cups of coffee, very smooth with no side effects besides slight pupil dilation which messed with my vision. At higher doses, at 12g+, I was able to nod like I took 30mg of Oxycodone. (I keep my opiate/opioid tolerance as low as possible). I never threw up on high doses of Bali, I was just blissfully "opiated" with amazing euphoria and a general care free attitude.

For the "premium" Thai Kratom, it was much more stimulating. I did not do low doses for the Thai, but more so between 8g-15g at a time. It was much more stimulating than the Bali, but the side effects showed through the Thai. I would throw up atleast twice whenever I dosed, but I was so euphoric it didn't matter. I could compare this to a low dose of amphetamine mixed with some oxycodone. Pleasant, but a little too stimulating for my tastes. (I tend to avoid stimulants nowadays due to intense anxiety)

I'm looking to try other blends, I think I'm going to try the Malay blend next. Overall, Kratom has been an amazing legal choice to get a buzz, and it's anti depressant effects truly amaze me. I have never felt so soulfully good in years than when I dose Kratom. But beware, your tolerance will rise WAYYYYY too fast to enjoy it if you dose everyday. (I learned this the hard way) I recommend taking atleast 2-3 days off between doses, to keep that magic going ;)
 
I've been taking plain leaf daily for two months. Twice to three times daily, 4 to 9g at a time. I've not noticed any sort of tolerance, in fact, I enjoy my low doses each day more than my higher one, which I take to ensure a full night of sleep
 
Random strain comments after two weeks of loving me some Kratom.

Bali - The bali from all three suppliers I've tried has the most comfortable "opiate high". My more anxiety averse friends enjoy the Bali but no other stains so far. MED.

Maeng da (Red Vein) - Very strong, very stimulating. I'm not about it, a little too in your face with the stimulation. Too Strong.

Maeng Da (white vein) - Very stimulating. Basically a caffeine replacement. Strong.

Borneo (white vein) - Euphoric and stimulating, my favorite early AM Kratom. Not so opiate like. Med Strong.

Green Vein Thai - Not so strong, but good combination of stimulation, relaxation, and euphoria.

Ultra Red Indo - Made some people sick oddly, I find it to be the best night night strain, strong.

Red Vein Thai - Sedating and Euphoric, strong.

Baik Bali - Meh. Med.
 
Well... I've been taking 6-8 C.K.G. Maeng Da Capsules (figuring .5g per capsule) to fight off a minor opiate withdrawal and it has been working pretty well... I still feel a "cold" in my core (might just be a symptom of MY w/ds) and a slight lethargy but besides that... no runny nose no yawning i can eat, it's awesome!!!

Now my question: I have 20x Thai Extract (4 grams total) now this is probably a novice question but the 20x means it's 20 times stronger than the normal dose (this being the Maeng Da) I'm just curious if anyone knows a conversion "equation" (or whatever) like they do with opiates and opioids. I wish I had time to compile one containing all kratoms, dosages and COMMON opiates but Im always so busy.... I digress

THANKS!!!
 
Kratom and Marijuana. 3-19-2014, 20:40

Started ingesting a kratom tea i made. I used hot water and 4 grams of kratom. Mixed together well let sit 10 to 15 minutes. Strained out plant matter. And started ingesting at 20:40. Finished at 20:45.

+0:05- 5 mins after ingestion. Starting to feel a slow buzz coming on.

+0:15- Kratom is pretty much kicked in. Feel stimulated but relaxed.

+0:30- Started smoking .1 gram of high grade marijuana.

+0:45- Finished .1 grams of high grade marijuana.

+1:00- I went and laid on my bed. I was experiencing audio hallucinations and CEVs and minor but blurry OEVs.
+2:00- Stimulating effects of the kratom are almost completelly gone. I am severely tired.

I eventually passed out from being severly tired. The overall experience was good. I recommend doing this in a calm area. I got paranoid while smoking, and its also hard to act sober if you are not used to being very high. Kratom and marijuana combined are a good combo but after the kratoms stimulating effects were off you are going to need to stay active or need caffeine to stay awake.

I plan on doing more research and experiments with this combination. Thanks.
 
silentcowboy said:
Kratom would have much less attention brought to it if everyone could stick to plain leaf, and kept out of head shops. Kratom is an amazingly useful remedy for so many things. If there is a ban, ill fight to the end, then if i have to, ill move somewhere i can get it. The united states has gotten so out of hand within the last 10 years or so its extremely frustrating... For me, that would definitely be the last straw.
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Fully agree with this, its so much better this way as well. And also thank god that it seems even the strongest extracts that feel almost like Heroin still seem to never allow any type of dangerous overdose when taking it further. Being an idiot in the past I have taken so much of these extracts far beyond the highest level, multiple dose levels over the highest high and all it does when you take way to much is feeling really sick, anxious and shit. It eventually blocks itself from becoming a real opiate overdose and killing you. Im certain the lack of any Kratom OD deaths (unless i have missed this somehow) saves Kratom every day from legal hell. It seems impossible to OD, even eventually simply creating a tolerance that blocks the drug completely 100%.
 
^ There was a thread in BDD from someone who almost died from ingesting a full bottle of FST. Trust me, the time where some idiot is gonna kill themself from kratom isn't far away. These potent, synthetic extracts CAN cause respiratory depression and in turn can also kill. Idiots will be idiots...
 
^ ahh ok, but honestly almost died from a full bottle of FST. That is still fuking impressively safe in my book. When maybe 1.50th of that bottle could give a great high, thats like saying somebody almost died from taking 50 oxys at once. No way you live through that. Sure there will eventually be a killing dose but with it being so very very high and difficult with Kratom, it gives it high credit in my eyes.
 
Kratom itself is VERY safe when it comes to overdose issues, it's the amount of semi-synthetic and pure isolated alkaloids in these extracts that are the problem. Think about it, if a chemical has a very slight effect on respiratory depression, if you take enough eventually it will cause problems. Couple this in with the ability to take as much as you want without vomiting it up immediately like you would plain leaf and you've got yourself an easy way to die. To top it off nobody knows exactly how potent or even the identity of these synthetic analogs used in these extracts. Some dummy with no tolerance or even a child that gets a hold of someones potent extract like FST is bound to be the first to OD and this will be a sad day as there's bound to be some sort of media coverage, and being in the US, likely emergency scheduling. A bottle of FST is tiny, sure the sheer number of chemicals it may take to die may be alot, but the amount of liquid required to potentially cause problems is nothing.
 
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Good point, its not the dosage range that really matters, its how easy it will be for a person to hit that massive dosage range where it matters. I do rem basically clearing prob 3/4 of a FST bottle from the gold reserve creator out of pure desperation and simply getting extreme anxiety and panic. Terrible days for me, such frustration at loosing this wonderful new gift i only recently discovered i was talking huge amounts of their most hardcore extracts and isolates getting nothing but pain and regret and fear. A huge contributor to this however was actually trying H due to diminishing returns which was the final nail in the tolerance coffin for Kratom. Only did that twice, 2 4 day binges and that was enough for a week of withdrawals and to realize the terrible price to be paid and where this road lead, and gave up the whole opiate kratom thing completely. Fortunately till had me trusty stims to keep me going, and now im back, and never making the same mistake again. Alcohol? gone, thanks Kratom. Stims, your next.
 
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I'm sure an opioid naive individual could od with another depressant in the mix.
 
Hello everyone,
I have a question. So I've been brewing kratom tea for more than two years and I have always used lemon juice or, more recently citric acid, in the mix. I can't remember where I first heard that this is necessary but I definitely think tea without some form of acid is far less potent (once I used vinegar in desperation, blech). But my question is, how many of you use this method and do you agree that acid is an important ingredient in the extraction?

A separate but related note is water temperature. I generally had used boiling water until recently. I made the tea at a cafe where the water available from a coffee brewer was 200 degrees Fahrenheit, a fair bit cooler than boiling. And I noticed that the tea was a lot more potent than it had been. But again, I don't trust myself to make a generalization on this trial. So what are your opinions on water temperature?

In summary,

Do you use an acid in the tea and why?

What water temperature do you think is best?

Thanks.
 
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