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Dissociatives The Big & Dandy 3-HO-PCP Thread

Dondante

Dondante

Bluelighter
Joined
Dec 6, 2005
Messages
1,638
3-HO- PCP Dosing Graph
________________________
Graph courtesy of @sernyl


Here's another post on 3-HO-PCP from an intrepid psychonaut (post is 2/3 of the way down this page):

Hugo24 said:
My first 1mg dose of 3-HO-PCP produced mostly placebo effects,but then, I was sure something went on.

4mg (2x2mg spaced by an hour) lead to a weak opiate nodding,nausea and some coordination problems,altough the intensity was still close to what a blank can do under the right circumstances.I got the impression though that it could be a long laster.

6mg taken at once yielded then a quite strong but uncomfortable painful dissociative state-well I wanted to find out its analgetic effects and took it when having a lumbago.Maybe the peak of the lumbago coincided exactly with the drugs peak but it surely was in no way analgetic,jesus my back hurt!This of course affected the mindset on its own plus I got a feeling like I'm going to faint ie everything around me started to drown in white,the colors faded away ("we fade to grey" you know that song?One of the best 80ties btw!).Oh,one paper has it mostly as an opiate antagonist,hmmm.

f&b's comparison of Ketamin and Tiletamin with Single Malt Whisky vs. industrial spirit came to my mind,only that this felt like methanol forerun-the usual effects are there but you're sure when going higher you'll turn blind or whatever bad thing.Something just didn't feel right.And it then looked like it has a very steep dose response curve,but read on.

Well I tried it at 15mg,three spaced 5mg doses (only went higher when 5mg did nothing after about 65min!),basically it was inactive! Some stimulation noted (heart rate went up),a strange opiate effect (caveat:I don't know opis exactly, tram and once M),vertigo,I was tired,a nasty dry coughing was also apparent and tight head muscles.Hard to judge its clear duration,maybe a tad longer than its MeO cousin,sleep went well and the next day was okay,no bad aftereffects luckily.

Theres obviously an extreme variation in bioavailability as its in-vitro activity on the NMDA receptor is very high,check out also in ADD a short report of its pyrrolidin analog which also proved to be inactive up to 70mg orally(!).All in all,its a shit drug you can bury deep with the other RC zonks.
Click to expand...

I think F&B tried this one and was similarly unimpressed or turned off by worrisome side effects. And IIRC, there was also some concern regarding seizures.

Edit: Found F&B's post (there's another report linked here as well):

fastandbulbous said:
...My experience of 6 & 8 mg IM was of horrible muscle tension that lasted for 1-2 days. This also happened with people who took the 3-OH PCP via other routes (plugged, snorted, swallowed). Personally it put me off ever trying 3-OH PCP ever again
Click to expand...

For obvious reasons, this one needs to be treated with the utmost caution. It's certainly far from the ideal candidate for the RC market.
 
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The Small & Handy 3-HO-PCP Thread

I searched and could find no reference to this one on BL.

Anybody with experience using 3-HO-PCP / 3-OH-PCP (using both terms just for sake of future indexing by TFSE.

Damn uncommon stuff from what I can tell, got myself a small sample on the way with a few other arylcyclohexylamines I was planning on exploring some more, not much, only 10mg. And that I have had to search, and search, and search for.

From what I know of it, doses are comparable with phencyclidine itself, although I have never tried PCP itself, it is pretty much unavailable here, not for want of looking for it, never found any though :(

But this derivative, isn't it also meant to be somewhat potent mu-opioid agonist? just how much of one is it? I find that so far all the arylcyclohexylamine type dissociatives completely wipe out any hint of opioid withdrawal. Not planning on using it for that purpose on a regular basis, but I do have an opioid tolerance, been physically dependent on oxycontin 40s (BD, although I can comfortably shoot 5-6 of those in one go...very comfortably indeed hah=D), tolerance is down though some thanks to a while without any, no fun though.

Planning on going straight to IV with this, I use any dissociatives that way, always have done, quite extensive experience with NMDA antagonists-probably shot my way through 150-200g or so of MXE, and a fair few grams of 4-MeO and 3-MeO-PCP.

I'm figuring given the comparable potency to phencyclidine, this 10mg is probably sufficient for some two to three IV doses? depending of course on how far down the rabbithole one wishes to end up.

Could do with finding out more on the MOR agonist potency of the stuff before I test it though, although I know there is no way in hades that it could produce an opioid overdose unless it is of extreme potency at MOR, given my oxy use (I'm a chronic pain patient, been on oxy for quite a while, was on first codeine then DHC for several years each prior to switching to OC)

Might just save one dose of the stuff, and see how it combines with oxy, seeing as how I get my script the day after I get my delivery of goodies.


I DON'T advise anybody just jump into this sort of thing IV. Its already my default mode of use though with NMDA antagonists, with which I do have quite a lot of prior experience.
 
I used a small sample of it at 7 mg IM (staggered dose) a few years ago that I happened across by sheer luck. For me it was the most opiate-like of all the dissociatives I've tried. Strangely, two other bluelighters reported dysphoric effects with it, and experienced effects at a far lower dosage than me (I think around 3 mg IM). They thought it a dud. I very much disagreed, as I thought it very warm. Adder has a brief description in Trip Reports but I don't remember what he concludes.

It's weird how various the responses are at the experimental stage of these exotic dissociatives (I'm recalling 3-MeO-PCP). I'd think you'd get two solid experiences out of your 10 mg IV, though it's hard to say when cross-tolerance is a very real factor. Stagger your doses. I think the degree of tolerance probably variably changes the quality of the high, too (in my case mild cross-tolerance from MXE improved 3-MeO-PCP relative to no tolerance when I first tried it, or at least seemed to.) Be cautious with 3-ho, though. It's both a temptress and potentially dangerous because of the mu agonism. Mixing with opiates strikes me as risky but admittedly also probably really enjoyable, heh (ain't that a bitch?). With your tolerance to both classes of drugs you're probably less of a risk than a newcomer, though. You're on a slippery path, but I can tell you know it, so I'll just say "good luck."
 
I don't have any real current tolerance to dissociatives, its been quite a while since I used any, aside from a couple of IV doses of n-ethylnorketamine and both 3- and 4-methoxyphencyclidine a couple of weeks ago.

As for opiate effects, could you make comparisons with any 'normal' opioids, in terms of potency? I'm not really too concerned about the potential for an opioid overdose, not with having such a small sample, and opioid tolerance, unfortunately that I do have.

I think I might just try a very slow IV push at 5mg, on its own. The day after though, I get my opiate rx (oxycontin), thats just going to be too tempting to leave lying around :D
 
LC- for what it is worth the jury is still out as to whether 3-OH PCP is an agonist or an antagonist at the MOR. At least that is how I, and some others, review the current scant literature on the subject. Figured that might be pertinent to you as you are on pain management. Or at least toady is ;)

But please do report back. I have never tried this one, but as Psood mentions there was quite a bit of variation in how the trusted dudes responded to such. . . .
 
After the recent disappointment of the (likely) fake 3-HO-PCE that circulated the market, I'm left with a nagging curiosity about the 3-hydroxy ACHs.

I'll be interested to hear the results, as well.
 
It is DEFINITELY not an antagonist. Or if it is, it is a very, very VERY weak one. I would have known about it had I taken an opioid antagonist, in a most unpleasant way.

I enjoyed it, ended up doing all 10mg in two intravenous doses, and combining it later with both some 2-MeO-deschloroketamine and 4-MeO-PCP after these had mostly worn off. Definitely felt a rush, something more than some of the other arylcyclohexylamines I've tried.

Without going into pricing discussion, it was bloody extortionate though :/
Might well work out better to try and go and prepare it from the= corresponding methyl ether.
 
3-ho-pcp

There's only a small amount of scattered information on the internet about 3-HO-PCP (I'm not sure if/what external references I'm permitted to link to).

It's mentioned in a few threads on Bluelight. The first being Adders excellent PCP analogs (Cumulative) thread.

3'-HO-PCP
Report:
...3mg of this compound taken orally as HCl salt knocked me out. This one must have some serious affinity for morphine sites because I could take less morphine. I leave it marked because its analogs may be serious opioid agonists. Officially, 3’-HO-PCP is like 10% of morphine. The only problem with this compound is that it’s 8 times as potent as PCP at PCP receptor so opioid activity (although it’s hundreds much more pronounced than with PCP) is little when compared. Yet I love this one.
Click to expand...

There's another I won't link to, because it seems to be a little confused with 3-MEO-PCP.

Does anyone have any experience, knowledge, or educated speculation about this chemical?

CAS: 79787-43-2
ChemSpider ID: 117583
 
From another thread:

Dondante said:
Here's another post on 3-HO-PCP from an intrepid psychonaut (post is 2/3 of the way down this page):

Hugo24 said:
My first 1mg dose of 3-HO-PCP produced mostly placebo effects,but then, I was sure something went on.

4mg (2x2mg spaced by an hour) lead to a weak opiate nodding,nausea and some coordination problems,altough the intensity was still close to what a blank can do under the right circumstances.I got the impression though that it could be a long laster.

6mg taken at once yielded then a quite strong but uncomfortable painful dissociative state-well I wanted to find out its analgetic effects and took it when having a lumbago.Maybe the peak of the lumbago coincided exactly with the drugs peak but it surely was in no way analgetic,jesus my back hurt!This of course affected the mindset on its own plus I got a feeling like I'm going to faint ie everything around me started to drown in white,the colors faded away ("we fade to grey" you know that song?One of the best 80ties btw!).Oh,one paper has it mostly as an opiate antagonist,hmmm.

f&b's comparison of Ketamin and Tiletamin with Single Malt Whisky vs. industrial spirit came to my mind,only that this felt like methanol forerun-the usual effects are there but you're sure when going higher you'll turn blind or whatever bad thing.Something just didn't feel right.And it then looked like it has a very steep dose response curve,but read on.

Well I tried it at 15mg,three spaced 5mg doses (only went higher when 5mg did nothing after about 65min!),basically it was inactive! Some stimulation noted (heart rate went up),a strange opiate effect (caveat:I don't know opis exactly, tram and once M),vertigo,I was tired,a nasty dry coughing was also apparent and tight head muscles.Hard to judge its clear duration,maybe a tad longer than its MeO cousin,sleep went well and the next day was okay,no bad aftereffects luckily.

Theres obviously an extreme variation in bioavailability as its in-vitro activity on the NMDA receptor is very high,check out also in ADD a short report of its pyrrolidin analog which also proved to be inactive up to 70mg orally(!).All in all,its a shit drug you can bury deep with the other RC zonks.
Click to expand...

I think F&B tried this one and was similarly unimpressed or turned off by worrisome side effects. And IIRC, there was also some concern regarding seizures.

Edit: Found F&B's post (there's another report linked here as well):

fastandbulbous said:
...My experience of 6 & 8 mg IM was of horrible muscle tension that lasted for 1-2 days. This also happened with people who took the 3-OH PCP via other routes (plugged, snorted, swallowed). Personally it put me off ever trying 3-OH PCP ever again
Click to expand...

For obvious reasons, this one needs to be treated with the utmost caution. It's certainly far from the ideal candidate for the RC market.
Click to expand...
 
I don't think the potential dysphoria is that weird or strange like ps00donym says, if 3-HO-PCP binds to the MOR as strongly as was already predicted by SAR... strong agonism can turn into antagonism as counterintuitive as that may sound. I am often still confused by this as well because I am definitely not an expert on this and forget about this stuff all the time.

Naturally, endorphins bind to the MORs with certain efficacy. Artificial agonists also activate the receptors, if partial agonists they do not do it as well as the natural endorphins but considering they are 'additional' to the system the total quantity of opioids present is increased so the total effect is positive.
If full agonists, they do it just as well as the natural endorphins. That happens when they fit especially well in the receptor. So far so good.

But here's the thing: a compound can bind 'too well' to the receptor, to the extent that it occupies the receptor without actually continuing to produce further activation. So now even the endorphins are blocked, and the net effect is negative.

It is even possible for a compound to bind permanently to the receptor (irreversible antagonist), that would in many cases be very problematic.

Also, some compounds are selective receptor modulators - they give different effects in different tissues so they are sometimes an agonist (I bet typically a full agonist), sometimes an antagonist. Not sure if that happens only in special circumstances or if that indicates that the binding is exactly in-between that of an agonist and antagonist and the exact receptor morphology decides which.

So I guess if 3-HO-PCP is somewhere along the lines of full agonist, or mixed agonist it would explain the dysphoria?

I have no idea why then it is less potent than fentanyl type drugs though, maybe the reason for that lies with the difference between affinity and efficacy.

Sorry to make this ADDy! And if I am wrong about stuff please correct me.

(And in any case... theoretically 3-HO-PCP is a bit too much for me, i.e. too potent / scary pharmacologically)
 
Mmmm, I just stumbled across this thread and think I should share my experiences. I received something labelled as 3-HO-PCP in mid 2006. I had a massive PCP tolerance back then (100-200mg/d) which might be the reason why I did not feel any sort of dissociation after ingesting the stuff. I did however get a very violent muscle clonus! I first only noticed an increase in muscle tension, but when I started wanking the clonus appeared in my legs which was quite unsettling.

Back then I figured I must've received the wrong chemical (got it for free from an online friend who experienced muscle tension as well), but reading this thread now I'm starting to believe it might've been 3-HO-PCP after all. I'd say skip this one...
 
Yar.....as Hugo alluded to, as did I, it is not known *how* exactly this functions at the MOR......I only tried it a few times at small doses a few years ago and I have a permanent ridiculous dissociative tolerance.....didn't do much for me, other than feel kinda toxic and icky....there are much more interesting variations out there! Adders report on this is yet again distinctly different from everyone else's experiences and adds to the SAR speculation BS rather than actual trials....as to why, I dunno....
 
About 2-3x as potent as regular PCP and has a tendancy to cause violent muscle spasms as mentioned above. Also retains opiate activity at about 10% of morphine from what I've read so I'd call this one a withdrawal-inducer without any use because I used to be addicted to opiates for so long. If not, maybe it's something for you to try, but remember this may cause physical dependancy if used regularly.

I would personally not put any PCP analogue in me that retains opiate activity. Problem with these drugs long half life and them getting reabsorbed due to their lipid solubilty just makes for really shitty withdrawals if it is a MOR agonist.
 
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amanitadine said:
Yar.....as Hugo alluded to, as did I, it is not known *how* exactly this functions at the MOR......I only tried it a few times at small doses a few years ago and I have a permanent ridiculous dissociative tolerance.....didn't do much for me, other than feel kinda toxic and icky....there are much more interesting variations out there! Adders report on this is yet again distinctly different from everyone else's experiences and adds to the SAR speculation BS rather than actual trials....as to why, I dunno....
Click to expand...
Yeah I actually had that in my post. My friend's and my experiences with 3-HO-PCP make adder's thread seem like a product of fiction. I removed that line out of respect though, there could be other reasons for the discrepancy (e.g. him confusing the chemical when writing the report).

And for those interested in the extremely surreal experience PCP supplies who cannot get ahold of it, diphenidine comes very close (it's actually a lot crazier than pcp) and is currently legal in every country afaik.
 
^ his whole report is filled with inconsistencies and is believed by many to be a work of compilation, speculation, and fiction.
 
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