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converting ibotenic acid into muscimol?

E

Elinisti

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Joined
Dec 18, 2006
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104
How long do you have to cook amanita muscaria for the ibotenic acid to convert into muscimol? And around what temperature? I'm not interested in maximizing the psychoactive FX but for getting rid of ibotenic acid that otherwise ruins a perfectly good mushroom.

I'm shocked that ibotenic acid crosses the BBB http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/1009800-overview#a0104
And some idiots eat amanitas raw! Is it known if any dose of ibotenic acid causes lesions? Or is there a threshold?
 
Pretty sure for best results decarboxylating A.muscaria you should do it dry (open fire) or in an otherwise aprotic solvent for best results. Ibotenic acid apparently does not degrade easily in aq. solution.

Of course the Siberian dudes have been eating raw amanitas for long periods of time, and that works, so decarboxylation may not be neccesary. AFAIK ibotenic acid acts mostly as a muscimol prodrug.
 
Never Knows Best said:
There are some specific conversion / cooking procedures in here, if you take the time to look. http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/threads/224033-The-Big-amp-Dandy-Amanita-Mushrooms-Thread
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Yeah, "boiling the fresh shrooms in water for a few hours would be an other efficient way to convert ibotenic acid into muscimol". I'm not a chemist and don't know how to decipher all the data. I'd just like some facts that how long would I need to boil the shrooms to decarboxylate the ibotenic acid into muscimol? I don't feel like testing it on my self anymore.

AFAIK there's not really a toxicity problem eating them raw, the main problem is that it's not as effective.
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Not according to my experience. When I do a tea and simmer it for around half an hour I get horribly sick, vomit etc. But when I make a tea and simmer it into extract for around twelve hours I don't get sick but get a nice very light feeling and see some crazy dreams. I guess also that the ibotenic acid converts into muscimol through long period of heat but that is only a guess.

" The current view is that some Ibotenic Acid does cross the blood brain barrier unchanged" ( http://www.erowid.org/plants/amanitas/amanitas_info6.shtml ). I don't want to ingest any of that shit. Drying does the trick but the problem is that the dry mushrooms taste like shit and I love the taste of freshly cooked amanitas. So cooking is the option I'm looking for. I guess frying in oil would be the best way... But would I need to then also cook them for a prolonged time?

EDIT:
If the melting point of ibotenic acid is 151-152° (anhydrous); 144-146° (monohydrate), wouldn't it be best to cook them in the oven at a slightly above temp? But then again melting point doesn't mean the same as decarboxylation. But i guess it means anyways that the ibotenic acid gets destroyde fairly quickly, right? Would 10-15 minutes be enough?
 
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I my experience, well drying in 170 f. oven works fine, haven't noticed much difference in dry mushrooms and 190f. simmered mushroom soup.

I usually just water the powder down into a paste, then add more water to pruduce 3 or 4 oz of glugable sludge, down that all in one big gulp, and eat something nice to get the bad taste out of my mouth.

Mushrooms should be ground into a well-mixed powder (because potency of mushrooms can vary wildly..even from the same patch) and then test dose about 5 grams to test the waters..if that seems weak, increase the dose appropriately.
 
The study I read suggests that boiling ibotenic acid in water (even at 300 degrees C with steam) it does not degrade, or does so very slowly.
 
corky2 said:
I my experience, well drying in 170 f. oven works fine, haven't noticed much difference in dry mushrooms and 190f. simmered mushroom soup.

I usually just water the powder down into a paste, then add more water to pruduce 3 or 4 oz of glugable sludge, down that all in one big gulp, and eat something nice to get the bad taste out of my mouth.

Mushrooms should be ground into a well-mixed powder (because potency of mushrooms can vary wildly..even from the same patch) and then test dose about 5 grams to test the waters..if that seems weak, increase the dose appropriately.
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That all sounds unnecessarily gross. When I got my dried amanitas, I had to stop myself from eating too many they were so yummy.
 
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