• BASIC DRUG
    DISCUSSION
    Welcome to Bluelight!
    Posting Rules Bluelight Rules
    Benzo Chart Opioids Chart
    Drug Terms Need Help??
    Drugs 101 Brain & Addiction
    Tired of your habit? Struggling to cope?
    Want to regain control or get sober?
    Visit our Recovery Support Forums
  • BDD Moderators: Keif’ Richards | negrogesic

suboxone, is less really more?

laCster

laCster

Bluelighter
Joined
Nov 16, 2010
Messages
6,852
ok so i've heard many speculations around the right buprenorphine dose. some say it is better to take under 2mgs because that allows more norbuprenorphine to bind to receptors, some say 4mgs instead of 2, and some people say that better effects come with increased dosage.

now, when i say "better" i mean more euphoric or having better anti-depressant effects..

what's y'all opinion on it? does enough buprenorphine even get metabolized into enough norbup to have any effect, or is so minimal that the norbup levels are considered trivial?
have you had better experiences with low doses of bupe over large doses, and which do you prefer?
 
I always go with the less is more methodology with bupe.

Full-agonist will always beat partial.
 
yah but bup has a higher binding affinity than norbup. what happens if i dose low and norbup is on my receptors, then i decide to do some more suboxone...will i get precip wd? loool
 
cool, thanks guys. i want to keep redosing suboxone though it has lost most of its magic that i used to get from using suboxone occasionally for recreation. i think i am going to take a couple of days off to get that high back
 
At <2mg doses you get more norbuprenorphine action, which is a full agonist opposed to bupe's partial agonism. Even besides that, bupe's a weird one and low doses are definitely the way forwards..
 
In general, less is more.

The only instance I have heard of it being truly beneficial is when somebody is continually dosing on 8mg+ of sub, they take a break and then realize it's better to start out with a low dose and not chase a 'high' but focus on the benefit the small amount of sub provides.
 
Does anyone have a link to any medical data supporting lower dosing that is not based on patient perceived highs?
 
mrflowers00 said:
i feel way better from 8mg than i do from 1 or 2
Click to expand...

I think people with previous heavy opiate abuse will definitely get more WD/PAWS relief with a higher dose of suboxone, since opiate dependence not only downregulates endorphins, but upregulates the amount of opioid receptors in the brain, leading to tolerance (you need to fill more receptors to get high), dependence (you need to fill more receptors to feel "normal"), withdrawal, etc.

People with intense opiate habits in the past might have more opioid receptors left than 2mg of bupe --> norbupe can fill, and feel better in terms of filling up all their upregulated opioid receptors with large amounts of bupe. Even though it is a partial agonist, and is not particularly enjoyable compared to norbupe, bupe does fill up extra opioid receptors and "holds" people.

Having said that, most regular opiate abusers/addicts will do more than fine on less than 2mg of bupe, plus they get the benefits of a full agonist (norbupe) not being overtaken by the bupe.
 
2mg and below allows the norbupe to take effect, not just the bupenorphine. More norbupe = more euphoria, "classic" opi effects, and pain relief. I also believe the antidepressant/anxiolytic action to be more prominent at dosages 2mg or below, as well as the stimulate-like effects.

Makes me social and quite talkative, keeps me from using or falling back into opiate/heroin addiction, allows me to be functional, mood-uplift/mildly euphoric still after ~2 months of maintenance. Definitely not as euphoric as my recreational and occasional use of Subs before my script. Clean stims and benzodiazepines really give bupe some euphoria and synergy. I'd like to take a break laC, but my dosage is still a bit high to just go C/T without some likely unbearable WDs.
 
I was taking 4 mg for a while, then 2 mg, and now we're taking 1 mg; what we've been doing for the past couple of days is taking 1 mg every 12 hours or so.

I'm really, really surprised to find that 1 mg seems to be just as effective as 2 mg or more.
 
For me I always find a larger dose lasts longer... but that's me. I am in no way telling you to dose big. My tolerance is a monstrosity though. I do prefer for it to last longer and I like to dose smaller and smaller each day for 3-4 days until the worst of it would be over.
 
cool tahnks for all the posts guys...

ok next question. is it 2mg and below that gives the best euphoria, or is it 4mgs and below???
 
Theres a doctor who is on youtube under "Soboxonetalkzone" and he says 4 mg is the cut off for "Feel good properties" and I believe it to be true
 
^ I've watch a couple of his videos a while ago. He speaks from personal experience, so he really knows what he's talking about. I just can't imagine a doctor getting out of hand with opiates enough to almost die, but addiction can strike anyone, rich or poor, educated or uneducated.
 
I've been maintaining on sub for 1.5 - 2 yrs and only had 2 relapses in that time period ( once 30mg oxy and once 2mg xanax ) so i like to think it was a good idea for me. I never took more than 4-6mg at a time even when Doc said take 2 a day (16mg). Unfortunately I had a Doc who was more interested in my $$ then my life and struggles w/ opiates. Anyway, she would usually write the same amount, 60-90 8mg strips a month: 3x daily in beginning and then 2x were her directions, but i knew i didn't want to go that high because I knew i felt just as good with way less. When i was weaning, daily, i was cutting 2mg strips up to THIN, small pieces and it was working just as well it seemed. I definintely believe that less is more and that 2mg could, potentially, make you feel the same as 8mg +. I still use suboxone, maybe 1-2 times a week, basically every 3-4 days i've taken a small amount over the past month and as long as everything else in in place, (work, bills, family etc) I've felt just fine! Soon I hope to put it behind me, but I know i'll have to start going to meetings again and have a "plan" when I want to stop completely, which is going to be soon
 
I'm new been on sub for years they always give you way more than you need especially VA hospitals. They started me at 4 and gradually ended up at 12mg daily. 4mg and under spaced over a day or two produces the most Buzz imo.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top