Harm Reduction Tapering Plan Mega thread - community project

[Jabberwocky]

I’m going to keep this short and sweet, for the time being anyway.

This thread will be dedicated to all the users out there asking for help and wishing to devise a tapering plan for whatever drug they may be addicted to. This can be anything from Tramadol, Buprenorphine, Morphine, Hydrocodone, Amphetamines, etc, etc.

This means any threads we receive asking for tapering advice will be merged in here, if they aren’t originally placed in here.

This thread is for everyone, so don’t just rely on us, the Moderators, to devise plans for you as they can be time consuming and we(moderators) have other duties to perform on here as well. Besides, tapering plans can be quite time consuming from individual to individual. We’re all a community working together, helping each other.




Generalised Examples: now of course these statistics are not the “be all end all” %’s they are guides/examples. Depending on how long you’re wanting your taper plan to continue is going to be dependent on your reduction dosages, health problems, etcetera, etcetera





Methadone – tapering off roughly 10% per week for minimal discomfort



Valium – reducing by 5mg per week to avoid discomfort and minimise chance of seizures and fits



Buprenorphine – tapering roughly 25% throughout week for larger habits. ie A dose of 24mg could be reduced down to 18mg over the course of a week with minimal discomfort.



Heroin – reducing 20% intake per day over a week.

here's an expantion from the guide to opioid addiction treatments and other meds used to wd

Methadone
--------------------------------------
Methadone is a diphenylheptane-derivative, a potent mu-agonist opioid, and both an effective treatment for narcotic addiction and pain. Its duration of action is quite long, lasting anywhere from 12 - 36 hours, based on dosage. It has similar risks to that of traditional opioid narcotics regarding dependency, tolerance, and withdrawal. However, b/c longer acting drugs take longer to metabolize; less drug is introduced during a given interval of time--the result is a longer retained but less intense psychoactive effect. An example of this: dia-morphine (heroin) is metabolized more quickly than morphine due to its attatched diactyl-group; the result is heroin's shorter duration in action but more intense effects, producing more euphoria and a stronger rush.

Methdone also has a unique pharmacological action in having minor, non-competitive antagonist activity at NMDA receptors, similar to but weaker than drugs like dextromethorphan and ketamine. In a small percentage of people this can facilitate a varied response of unwanted side effects including: amnesia, catalepsy (sensation of rigid muscles), confusion, dysphoria, agitation, ataxia, and/or catatonia.

However, methadone is also is a weak inhibitor of serotonin and norepinephrine reuptake. These properties give methadone an added benefit of being a minor anti-depressant. But because hypertension associated with withdrawal is attributed to elevated norepinephrine levels, methadone's SNRI activity can cause persisting, residual stimulation and hypertensive symptoms for a few days if MRT is started after a bout of withdrawal.

Methadone does have an added benefit of a blocking other opioids at and around 70 mg. Methadone isn't a competitive agonist, so it will not completely block other mu-agonists or precipitate withdrawal. This exact mechanism of blocking isn't known, but is sometimes attributed, and controversly so, to the fact that there is usually a ceiling effect on the euphoria and analgesia caused by most opioids that attain their primary psychoactive action from the activity of their corresponding metabolites. And b/c only so much of a certain molecule can be converted into a metabolite at once, a ceiling effect comes into play. But drugs which are active in themselves are still blocked to some degree by methadone. Other theories involving a maximum limit on immediate mu agonism are proposed but have no significant scientific evidence to date.

Unfortunately, withdrawal from methadone is notoriously unpleasant. If not tapered correctly, withdrawal and extreme discomfort can last up to 1 - 4 weeks. But even when done properly it can cause malaise-conditions (dysphoria associated with drug use) for 3 - 10 days. This disadvantage in MMT withdrawal can potentially instigate a relapse.

Also, there has been one reported case of death from methadone withdrawal (>175 mg daily intake). The victim died from complications during episodes of seizuring. But due to her unfortunate circumstances it was not known whether she was previously epileptic (she was incarcerated and had no known family or doctors to contact for medical information); thus it can not be definitively concluded if her death was directly due to methadone withdrawal or epilepsy complications.

So generally speaking, methadone is more effective as a long term DRT maintenance medication due to its full mu-opioid agonist pharmacology. It can cause euphoria and has relatively high abuse potential, but when used properly these effects can be minimized. But methadone can still contribute to complications when tapering b/c of its similarity in action to typical narcotic analgesics. Therefore, methadone maintenance is more suited towards substituting, regulating, and minimizing illicit opioid addiction rather than promoting eventual abstinence. Experimental, case-study evidence for this can be found at http://opioids.com/methadone/tapering.html.


Levoacetylmethadol (LAAM)
--------------------------------------
LAAM is also a diphenylheptane-derivative, like methadone and propoxyphene. Its risks and benefits are nearly identical to that of methadone's but with one major difference. LAAM's duration of action is roughly double that of its counterpart and only requires dosing 3 - 4 times a week. Generally though, it is less favored to methadone (i tend to agree) b/c of its tendency to take longer to relieve withdrawal.

Recently, LAAM's metabolites have shown signs of cardiotoxicity at normal maintenance doses, therefore it has since been discontinued for medical use in the U.S. but is still available in MMT clinics. There are also suspicions of hepatoxicity being caused by LAAMMT as well. Its dextro isomer has shown less toxicity but has significantly less duration of action and more abuse-potential; methadone is more appropriate if LAAM isn't well tolerated.


Buprenorphine
--------------------------------------
Buprenorphine belongs to a small group of opioids known as benzomorphane derivatives. Buprenorphine is a novel medication b/c it has both mu-opioid agonist and antagonist properties. It is highly competitve at receptor sites, making it similar to nalaxone and naltrexone. But unlike these drugs, it also has an inherit mu-opioid agonist effect. It produces typical narcotic analgesia at lower doses and can ward off withdrawal for up to 48 hours.

Buprenorphine's competitive affinity for opioid receptors means that it has an advantage in the fact that full-opioid agonists will have no neurological action when taken during maintenance therapy. However, at amounts less than 2 mg this effect is less pronounced and wears off 12 - 24 hours after last dose.

Because buprenorphine is not a full mu-opioid agonist, it has a ceiling limit on its effects. Over 8 - 16 mg, the analgesic and euphoric properties do not increase; only duration in action is extended. Also, buprenorphine's unique pharmacological profile means that once BMT is mantained for a few weeks euphoria, sedation, and the potential for abuse becomes of relatively less significance.

Buprenorphine also has action at the ORL1 nociceptin (a newly discovered opioid receptor-class) receptors as a partial agonist and antagonist. In low doses, this can result in novel anti-depressant like effect; but when sudden, higher doses are used during maintenance therapy, this can result in lethargy, sedation, and mild dysphoria. This has an added detering effect in patients seeking to abuse buprenorphine when in maintenance therapy.

Buprenorphine's anti-depressant effect is thought to make tapering on the drug significantly more tolerable than more selective opioid agonists. Also, due to its less euphoric properties, BMT is more effective at relapse prevention than at actual drug replacement therapy (DRT). This gives the patient considerably more experience at living a seemingly "sober" life than MMT or LAAMMT, making complete abstinence a more easily achievable goal during buprenorphine therapy. As a result, BMT is usually used for a maximum of 3 years.

However, b/c buprenorphine's neurological action is different from full-opioid agonists, it is less effective as an actual alternative replacement for opioids. For this reason, individuals who aren't quite ready to stop abusing opioids respond better to methadone maintenance than to BMT.

Also, buprenorphine's antagonist properties will cause precipitated withdrawal if taken by an opioid tolerant individual who has used within 24 - 48 hours (depending what opioid was last taken). Therefore, to start BMT the patient must wait till her or she is in withdrawal to start the maintenance therapy.

From my experience: if an individual precipitates withdrawal by taking buprenorphine while on other narcotics, the symptoms can be expected to last for at least 12 hours and can not be reversed. Expect it to last at least 24 hours in severely addicted individuals. Taking other opioids or more buprenorphine will not alleviate the symptoms either. The best recommendation I can offer is to wait it out for 36 - 48 hours. Then take buprenorphine at normal doses as needed.


Propoxyphene
--------------------------------------
Being a diphenylheptane-opioid like methadone and LAAM, propoxyphene does have some anti-depressant like properties. But its disadvantages are too numerous. It has a short duration of action and weak opioid agonist activity, needing very high dosing to be effective in opioid tolerant individuals. It also has higher antagonist activity at NMDA receptors than methadone; making it less tolerated, with more side effects.

Norpropoxyphene, a metabolite of propoxyphene, is highly cardiotoxic and suspected of being neurotoxic. It has an extremely long half-life and accumulates in the body, potentially causing delayed atrioventricular conduction, psychosis, cardiac arrhythmias, circulatory impairment, impaired psychomotor function, and in some cases cardiorespiratory arrest after long periods of use. The risk of some neurocardio effects occuring immediately after one-time-use increase considerably over 800 mg.

For these reasons, propoxyphene is only effective as a short term detoxification drug. It should only be used in individuals with low to moderate tolerance due to its dangerous cardiovascular side effects.


Codeine
--------------------------------------
Codeine is an non synthetic, weak mu-opioid agonist and can be used for tapering to avoid minor withdrawal. But b/c codeine must first be converted into its active metabolite, morphine, it has a ceiling effect of 400 mg--thus it is not suitable for severe withdrawal. Also, norcodeine, another metabolite of codeine, facilitates a severe histamine reaction--another unfavorable side effect.


Tramadol
--------------------------------------
Tramadol is a synthetic opioid which is classified indepdently of all other narcotic analgesics. Tramadol is similar to codeine in that it has weak analgesic qualities. It too has a ceiling effect, but its active metabolite isn't morphine and is denoted as M1. While tramadol isn't an effective medication to relieve severe opioid cravings, it does have unique mechanisms of action that make it useful in treating other severe withdrawal symptoms: its prevention of serotonin and norepinephrine reuptake can mediate depression and its agonist activity at alpha-2 adrenergic receptors (similar to clonidine) can also relieve insomnia, fever-symptoms, and hypertension. However, tramadol can cause nausea and vomiting in higher doses and its SNRI action can leave minor yet persisting stimulation and hypertensive symptoms when taken to alleviate withdrawal.


Full Agonist Opioids: Semisynthetics (oxycodone, hydrocodone), Anilidopiperidinic derivatives (fentanyl) and Phenylpiperidinic derivatives (meperidine/pethidine)
--------------------------------------
These drugs can be effective in the short term when used for tapering. However, they are ineffective when used for long term maintenance b/c of their euphoric properties, short duration of action, and high abuse potential. Other strong mu opioid agonists like methadone, LAAM, and buprenorphine are accepted as having medical value in maintenance therapy b/c of their anti-depressant effects, limited euphoric properties, ability to block other opioids, long duration of action, and their success of use in structured, maintenance programs. Other mu-opioid agonists do not share all of these qualities. Full agonists are therefore more likely to be abused by a detoxing individual compared to other narcotic DRT medications. They are ultimately less effective in acheiving eventual sobriety unless the patient is adhered to very strict conditions and regulations, or held in a controlled environment.

Compared to typical opioids, phenylpiperidine derivatives can have added disadvantages due to their more generalized neurological effect. For example, Meperidine has strong anticholinergic activity and has some effect on kappa-opioid receptors. This can cause aggravating side effects that include: confusion, dry mouth, ataxia, hallucinations, agitation, amnesia, anesthesia, catalepsy, dysphoria, catatonia, delerium, and even psychosis. Meperdine can also precipitates stimulant effects by inhibitioning the dopamine and norepinephrine transporter cells (DAT and NAT, respectively).

NON-OPIOIDERGIC THERAPIES


Ibogaine/18-methoxycoronaridine
--------------------------------------
Ibogaine is pharamcologically unique in its relevance to treating opioid dependance. The main neurological action that is responsible for addiction surpression is noncompetitive antagonist activity at α3β4 nicotinic receptors. B/c NMDA and α3β4 nicotinic channels are located within lumen binding range on the same ligands--α3β4 nicotinic antagonism usually facilitates NMDA antagonist activity as well. In plain english: this neurological action is responsible for ibogaine's dissociative effects. This neurological action is also responsible for curbing compulsive behavior; to a lesser extent, drugs like buproprion (zyban) also have this neurological action. Ibogaine also has strong hallucinogenic and psychedelic effect, this is mediated by agonist activity at the 5HT2A receptors.

12-hydroxyibogamine, an active metabolite of ibogaine, is a selective serotonin reuptake inhibitor, and a -kappa, -mu opioid agonist. These actions are responsible for ibogaine's long duration and surpression of opioid withdrawal symptoms, respectively.

But most importantly... unlike methadone or buprenorphine, ibogaine is unique in that it actually creates a desire to become abstinent. While its nicotinergic and opioidergic effects seem to diminish mental and physical craving; its combined action on NMDA channels and 5HT2A receptors cause a deeply reflective, hallucinogenic experience in which preconcieved, positive perceptions pertaining to an individual's addiction are shattered.

Drug addiction forces an individual to rationalize one's harmful actions--its the brain's way of ignoring atypical and immoral behavior inorder to maintain use (Drug consumption to an opioid addicted brain becomes a survival skill, the brain will instinctively try to sustain it any cost). Ibogaine rips down these false, built up notions and allows the addict to see things for what they really are. This is a milestone in addiction treatment, since it was thought to be impossible to induce this in an addicted individual, i.e.- "they can only quit when they really want to." Well, now it seems most dependent users can also really quit if they take ibogaine once every few months.

Ibogaine also has some action on sigma2 receptors (a neuron-system that is involved in stimulant toxicity, anti-cholinergic delerium, and dissociative-drug induced hallucinations); but the neurological, behavorial cause and effect profile of such pharmacological actions is still poorly understood.

A synthetic derivative of iboagine is 18-methoxycoronaridine. Its neurological action is as a selective α3β4 antagonist, which is ibogaine's main mechanism for physically surpressing the compulsiveness of addiciton. But b/c it is selective, it is barely hallucinogenic and thus less intense than ibogaine. This ultimately is a major flaw in 18-methoxycoronaridine b/c it will theoritically be no more effective at mediating addiction than other selective α3β4 antagonists; it is no better than drugs like buproprion.


Naltrexone Maintenance
--------------------------------------
Naltrexone is an opioid antagonist, typically used in maintenance of sobriety in opioid dependent individuals who've already undergone detoxification. Naloxone and nalmefene are also opioid antagonists that are used to treat acute overdose and alcoholism, respectively. Naloxone has application in treating opioid overdose due to its higher potency and relatively low duration of effects (1 - 2 hrs). Nalmefene is used in alcoholism more extensively due to its low potency and high plasma half life.

Opioid antagonists have very high affinity for mu- and kappa- opioid receptors and therefore will displace any other non-competitive opioidergic drug present at the actual receptor site. This is, in essence, the pharmacodynamics of neurological antagnostic activity. Since naltrexone, naloxone, and nalmefene have no inherit mu- opioid agonist properties themselves; they will block the neurological aciton of any narcotic and cause habitual opioid users to go into precipitated withdrawal.

Naltrexone is usually prescribed following rapid detox treatment as a post procedural medication. However, the effectiveness of opioid antagonist maintenance is low due to non compliance in patients. Therefore, another procedure in which a naltrexone "pellet" is subcutaneously inserted into the patient, is sometimes utilized. The pellet has its advantages to medication b/c daily compliance in the patient is not an issue and the effects can last anywhere from 4 - 24 months.

Opioid antagonists in general are considered to be less advantageous compared to other treatment options. These drugs have absolutely no inherit opioid agonist properties, and thus do not help in treating cravings in opioid dependent individuals. Therefore, other DRT medications as a whole are considered more useful.


Rapid Detoxication
--------------------------------------
Rapid detox refers to a medical procedure used to speed up the detoxication process. Generally, the procedure can last anywhere from 30 minutes to 4 hours, depending on an individual's subjective withdrawal symptoms.

Typical medications used include a mitazolam and ketamine mixture for anesthesia, followed by high quantities of naloxone, and then nalmefene. Medicines like tracrium (a mixture of ten atracurium stereoisomers) are also sometimes used as peripherial movement inhibitors (peripherial muscle relaxants).

The effectiveness of rapid detox seems to be debated within the addiction-treatment community. For patients with high tolerance who have been using for multiple years or more, withdrawal duration can last a relatively extensive amount of time. In these cases, rapid detox seems to be less effective at condensing symptoms into a 4 hour period.

Keep in mind there are also OTC aides and natural drugs available for your aide under these circumstances.

LISTING OF PHARMACEUTICAL AND HERBAL TREATMENTS (IN ORDER FROM MOST EFFECTIVE TO LEAST EFFECTIVE)


Opioid-Based and/or Dysphoria Treating Medicines (Most of these can cause dependence):
ibogaine
methdone
buprenorphine
levoacetylmethadol (LAAM)
buspirone
oxycodone/hydrocodone
tramadol
codeine
propoxyphene
benzodiazepines
carisprodal
dextromethorphan
-------herbs-------
kratom


Non-Opioid Medications (Categorized according to symptomatic relief provided; Not dependence-prone):

Insomnia/Anxiety/Hypertension
baclofen
chlorzoxazone
cyclobenzaprine/orphenadrine
methocarbamol
zolpidem
tizanidine
amitriptyline
gabapentin
hydroxyzine
acomprosate
trazadone
dextromethorphan
clonidine
melatonin & other steroidal sleep remedies (insomnia only)
diphenhydrinate/dimenhydramine
--------herbs--------
kava kava (piper methysticum)
valerian (valeriana officinalis)
passionflower (passiflora incarnata)
reishi (ganoderma lucidum)
chamomile (matricaria recutita)
skullcap (scutellaria lateriflora)
hops (humulus lupulus)
damiana (turnera diffusa)

Diarrha/Abdominal Cramps
loperamide
amitriptyline
hydroxyzine
anticholinergics (atropine, dimenhydrinate)
------herbs------
bilberry (vaccinium myrtillus)
peppermint (mentha x piperita)

Rhinorrhea (ncreased salivation)/ Lacrimation (increased tear production)
anticholinergics
hydroxyzine
loperamide
amitriptyline
dextromethorphan
-------herbs------
belladonna alkaloids

Pyretic Sensations (chills, fever)
clonidine
propranolol
acetaminophen
NSAIDs
acetylsalicylic acid

Nausea
diphenhydramine/dimenhydrinate
meclizine
bismuth subsalicylate
hydroxyzine
calcium carbonate
------herbs------
chamomile (matricaria recutita)
ginger (zingiber officinale)
peppermint (mentha x piperita)

Aches, Pains
ropinirol
baclofen
NSAIDs (ibuprofen, naproxen)
acetaminophen
acetylsalicylic acid
chlorzoxazone
cyclobenzaprine/orphenadrine
methocarbamol
gabapentin
trazadone
------herbs------
reishi (ganoderma lucidum)
willow (salix spp.)


Non-Barbituate & Non-Benzodiazepine M03B Class Muscle Relaxants (May help with anxiety, insomnia, and pain; Some may be habit forming)
chlormezanone
tolperisone
febarbamate
phenyramidol
mephenesin
phenprobamate
styramate
thiocolchicoside
pridinol

I’ve only done this in a rushed manner in order to accommodate the flurry of tapering threads we’ve been receiving so expect this to be updated over time (plus I’m drunk and benzo’d at the moment). Feedback is encouraged and anything you would like to see added in the OP, PM me or another OD moderator and we will determine whether it’s worth adding.

Good luck to everyone out there with their tapering!

 

[HdoubleODeezy]

if tapering off of clonazepam.. which i see a lot of posts about lately. i suggest if your at a high dose 8mg for example. i would try to knock 1mg off at first and see how you feel and if you can do it on that lesser dose start by reducing dose by .5mg every other week till your down to about 2mg.. then reduce by .25mg every other week until your down to your last .25mg and stay on that as long as you feel its needed. then make the jump to nothing when you feel your ready.. thats my best advice for clonazepam.

 

[vonchampz]

I think I will add to this later, but this is a great idea lefty. I'll briefly state THE ASHTON MANUAL for benzo taper..... Dr. Ashton's benzo taper schedule There are different schedules depending on the benzo you are addicted to. I'll add more to this later, but I cannot stress the Dr. Ashton Manual for benzo WD enough. Not everyone will need to follow it completely and for the time period stated because not everyone tapering has been on benzos for long lengths of time, but it's a great resource.

Thanks again lefty and I will add more from personal and medical experience, mainly with benzo WD as I have done it many times, but not with any other substance....

 

[darkz]

Stoppin Tar (smoking)

As of now 2:00pm I haven't smoked any Black Tar Heroin for about 30 hours. I feel really terrible, I smoke about 40 dollars (.6g) of tar every day through out the day. The heroin is very strong and I have been smoking for about 9 months with a couple 2 week breaks. So far I have been on dope non-stop for about 4 months.

And for my main question, I bought 2 8mg suboxone pills and I am wondering what would be the best way to detox.

thanks for all the help, later

 

[Captain.Heroin]

good luck!

Take no more than 2mg every 6-8 hours, or longer. And then if you can start to take less (like 1mg) after you start to feel better, then do so and taper down as quickly as you can so as to stretch the Suboxone.

I wish you the best with quitting heroin. My fiancee and I are 14+ months clean from heroin.

It's not easy but you can do it! I wish you the best of luck.

 

[ech0s85]

hey man i had almost the same habit as you did and used subs, theyre great. I needed 5 or 6 mgs the first day to feel better, but that was only 20 hours in. The next day i took 2 mgs, then the third day only maybe half a mg, then the next day none, then the next day another 1mg. Then i didnt take any for a day and a half and started using again, but even just that little break lowered my tolerance a surprising amount for a day or two. Before i started smoking again i felt like i couldve gone three days with no more subs, they last forever once you get going.

 

[darkz]

thanks for the advice and support you guys, i appreciate it.

i did as you instructed and i feel alot better but I am having lots of trouble sleeping. For some reason suboxone, methadone, nyquil, theraflu, seroquel, and 99% of other sleep aids put me on the brink of sleep...but with amphetamine-like energy...its weird, anyone know what might cause that?

good thing xanax makes me sleep like a baby :D

night guys, take it easy

 

[Captain.Heroin]

The best way is to just quit.

No, I'm sorry, but not for opiates.

Heroin is too much of a beast to just "walk away" from it. Some people might be able to do that, but I couldn't.

It's something you have to wean yourself off of slowly, if not it'll be super fucking unpleasant and you'll psychologically crave it later.

I don't feel bad for having finally come off of it like I did (slowly over time) and now I'm 99.9999% sure I won't relapse.

Some drugs like tobacco, meth, crack, mephedrone, etc are probably best quit by just quitting, not tapering, etc. But not opiates.

thanks for the advice and support you guys, i appreciate it.

i did as you instructed and i feel alot better but I am having lots of trouble sleeping. For some reason suboxone, methadone, nyquil, theraflu, seroquel, and 99% of other sleep aids put me on the brink of sleep...but with amphetamine-like energy...its weird, anyone know what might cause that?

good thing xanax makes me sleep like a baby :D

night guys, take it easy

Are you saying you get energetic and not tired from drugs like Suboxone, methadone, nyquil, theraflu, seroquel, etc?

I wouldn't consider half of those all that great for sleep...

I get stimulated from buprenorphine too. It's better than speed for me. Might as well give me 125mcg of buprenorphine instead of any amount of (and any kind of) amphetamine.

I even would get stimulated from heroin (unless I did a lot or shot it, I typically was a snorter). I didn't like doing "a lot" but it happens sometimes when you get dank shit or you forget what not having a tolerance is like.

 

[Jordanbg70]

About to quit sub

Alright I've been taking sub for about 2 months at most, doses no higher then 3mgs daily, I'm at 1.5mgs now. I simply cannot taper anymore, I've never been much for tapering. I plan on quitting Friday. Are there any supplements/drugs I don't have listed that one might suggest for such a process or possibly what supplements drugs I might want to avoid? Or maybe a link to a thread with some good info pertaining to I CT sub detox. I know there's info on other sites, but BL's have never steered me wrong. Marijuana is not an option as I have weekly randoms. I will try to exercise as best I can as well. I have my psych visit thur, and will come clean with him on the subject. Honestly I've ct'd off 2bags H a day, 30mgs meth but never sub so I don't know what to expect.

Clonidine
Klonopin(maybe some xanax as well)
L-Tryrosine
Diphenhydramine*
Ambien
Immodium AD(does this help any symptoms besides the runs? Seems like it might from what some people say.)

I'm rather new at posting feel free to flame me, if this is in someway a dumb question.

 

[Jordanbg70]

maybe somewhat of a paradoxical reaction, but i second captain on the opiate energy thing especially with bupe and even methadone. You might wanna get a couple days worth of benzos or possibly clonidine for when you're finally off the sub. L-Tyrosine is supposed to be good for that post-opiate malaise, must be taken on empty stomach w/out any other aminos though, so it doesn't have to compete.

 

[Captain.Heroin]

Any other benzos (there's a lot of them) would help.

Diphenhydramine is not a "choice" antihistamine for me personally but it is for others. I like hydroxyzine the most, and doxylamine next.

If you can get hydroxyzine or any other benzos, those will help immensely if you don't find benzos addicted by themselves.

-> Suboxone Mega Thread

 

[Jordanbg70]

Thanks for the advice I'll ask my pdoc about the hydroxyzine if not I will pick up some generic unisom. I doubt I will need the immodium if all it helps is the runs, one symptom I get that isn't too unbearable.

 

[WSB15]

Immodium helps with many of the physiological symptoms, its not just for that purpose. It binds to opioid receptors in the body (but not the brain). I think it really helps...aside from benzos its the most useful for w/d. Something to help you sleep is also crucial, so ambien is a great idea.

 

[vonchampz]

Just a point, to the OP and maybe others in general. I think doctors try and over prescribe bupe and I have found that when starting it takes a few hours to kick in, so 2mg should be sufficient, but it takes so damn long to kick in, people take more. My friend currently was on H the same amount of time or longer and all he started taking was 2mg. It sucked at first, but it works its way in slowly so i don't think you need 6mg.

After a day or 2 2-3mg should be fine. I just think it takes a bit to build up in your system and to feel it in the beginning as well... Just my opinion

 

[vonchampz]

i hope you do it mate but your gonna feel pretty bad suboxne or not for a few days


off topic to the captain
im on suburophone 8mg and cant get a gouch snorting two of them why is that

You mean snorting suboxone? I dunno what gough is, but I have snorted suboxone many a times and in the beginning I would feel a bit of a high, but after a week or so I stopped feeling that way. Snorting still works if thats what you're asking....

 

[dankstersauce]

I think you have all the right supplements. My advice would be to not take it too lightly. I've kicked suboxone a few times and IMO it's worse than I expected every time. So make sure you give yourself at least 48 hours to lay around and do nothing.

Benzos are the best, clonodine is nice too. Benadryl doesn't bother me for sleep, of course ambien is better. Drink plenty of water, try to eat regularly and just take it easy.

IME It's not easy but it isn't as bad as dope. I think the main thing would be to make sure you want to quit and give yourself plenty of time to kick. Kicking when your not ready to kick is the worst cuz you suffer for a day or two only to fuck up again. So yeah benzos, benadryl, lots of water, the right mindset and you should be ok. I've found benzos to be the single most helpful 'supplement'...just don't get yourself addicted to them it's much worse.

 

[Cloud_9]

While It may or may not be of use to you, Melatonin has always been extremely helpful for me when looking back. While it may not actively kill the worst of the symptoms, if you figure out the right schedule you can stay asleep for at least half the time you are waiting for your body to reset itself.

Others include as always:

Generic multi-vitamin: The fresh-maker!
Magnesium: Helps with the muscle aches, but too much will give you the runs. I prefer around 150mg of magnesium stearate twice a day usually.
Lyrica [Pregabalin or Gabapentin]: Lets you feel less of the unnecessary anxiety and nervous energy. ie: flailing/kicking/spontaneous ejaculation

CAUTION: Watch out for becoming dependent on benzodiazepines, and I would start to taper off of them after no longer than 5-7 days, any longer usually just seems self-indulgent in my experience and much more trouble than its worth filling an emotional void for smach/opioids with something that feels somewhat similar.

That's about all I can think of that haven't been mentioned, but be sure to get the most amount of food and liquid in you, as you can't believe how much better a simple meal can make you feel, although your stomach is going to be playing ping pong with your esophagus, especially if you allow yourself to get dehydrated to begin with.

The only addition I can think of, which may not help you, and could even leave you feeling worse afterward is using amphetamine. I don't recommend this for anyone who doesn't know what they are doing or haven't been through a withdrawal episode before. I only recommend it for those people who need to put up some sort of wall to make it appear that they aren't in full-on withdrawal as they need to cover other responsibilities. The amphetamine can do wonders at masking discomfort for a while, but oftentimes once you are finished dosing it will come back worse than before, so take with caution.

 

[Jabberwocky]

merged and UA'd some off topic. let's keep this from getting derailed with banter, take it to PM's. we don't need these threads being fragmented to the point where we don't know what the fuck is going on where.

thanks guys

 

[Cloud_9]

Just spent a while looking for this thread. I think it has most every known, scientifically valid supplement and drug that you can use to make your one way ticket to sober-ville a little less painful.

http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?t=307488&highlight=opioid+withdrawal+detox [The real list part starts about half-way down the first page in case you have a short attention span, and I can't blame you if you do, you are in withdrawal. ]

The best medicine I have ever used though would be zyprexa which knocked me out for like 20h of the day and when I woke up I would just pop another one and be in the sack in an hour and the period I was awake the withdrawal was extremely mild, and this was day 4-5 coming off of 120mg of methadone for years.

 

[MrCream]

Yah I know what you guys mean I am coming off sub also here within a few days but my buddy is nice enough to hook me up with some benzo's and muscle relaxers to get me through the worst of it. Thank God for friends lol!