Page 1 of 30 123451121 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 749

Thread: The Big & Dandy Basic Mescaline/Cactus Questions Thread - Round Two!

  1. #1

    Bluelight The Big & Dandy Basic Mescaline/Cactus Questions Thread - Round Two!


    Welcome to the Big & Dandy Mescaline/Cactus Thread



    Mescaline --------- Peyote Cactus




    External links:



    Subthreads:




    Relevant Threads:








    PREVIOUS THREAD
    FIRST PAGE - LAST PAGE

    NEXT THREAD




    [original post:]

    I have heard of the term "doping" your cactus to get an increase in alkaloids mainly mescaline.

    quote from erowid--
    Experiments conducted by Rosenberg, Mclaughlin and Paul at the University of of Michigan, Ann Arbor in 1966 demonstrated that dopamine is a precursor of mescaline in the peyote cactus. Tyramine and dopa were also found to be mescaline precursors, but not as immediate and efficient as dopamine. It appears that in the plant tyosine breaks down to become tyramine and dopa. These then recombine to form dopamine which is converted to nor-mescaline and finally to mescaline. One can take advantage to this sequence by inject-ing each peyote plant with dopamine 4 weeks prior to harvesting. Much of the dopamine will convert to mescaline during this time, giving a considerable increase in the alkaloid of the plant. Prepare a saturated solution of free base dopamine in a .05 N solution of hydrochloric acid and inject 1-2 cc into the root of each plant and the same amount into the green portion above the root. Let the needle penetrate to the center of the plant, inject slowly and allow the needle to remain in place a few seconds after injection. It is best to deprive the plant of water for 1-2 weeks before injection. This makes the plant tissues take up the injection fluids more readily. If dopamine is not available, a mixture of tyramine and dopa can be used instead 6 weeks before harvesting for comparable results. San Pedro and other mescaline-bearing cacti can be similarly treated for increased mescaline production. Inject at the base of the plant and again every 3-4 inches following a spiral pattern up the length of the plant. A series of booster injections can be given to any of these cacti every 6-8 weeks and once again 4 weeks before harvesting for greater mescaline accumulation.

    It is also possible to increase the macromerine and nor-macromerine content of DoƱana cacti using tyramine or DL-norepinephrine as precursors. Injections should be given 20-25 days before harvesting. Series of injections can be given 45 days apart for higher alkaloid accumulation.""
    "


    I had an interesting idea come to my mind. I was wondering what would happen if I injected a live cactus (peruvian torch) with a phenthylamine or even a tryptamine. I was thinking about injecting it with some 2CE.
    I was wondering if it would kill the cactus or just potentiate the total cactus.
    would the cactus adapt to the new chemical and kep it or even convert the 2ce into another chem?
    I really have no idea what would happen but I thought i would ask here.

    I was just wondering what were others thoughts would be on the possibility of this outcome.

    any ideas? comments?

    peace
    Last edited by Solipsis; 09-12-2011 at 04:47.

  2. #2
    Bluelighter IGNVS's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    i live in fun
    Posts
    3,244
    hmm. well seeing how mescaline is the final product, injecting 2ce probably wouldnt do anything. find out the pathway for mescaline and inject with a souped up precursor of some sort and see what youll get.

    kinda like the idea of puting some 5-meo in the mycellum of some cubensis to get 5-meo 4-oh dmt

  3. #3
    Bluelight Crew 5-HT2's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2001
    Location
    Europe
    Posts
    7,139
    ^^^what he said. Find out what the precursor is and dope the cacti with that. This strategy is supposed to be successful when you dope mushroom cultures with tryptamine.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by IGNVS
    kinda like the idea of puting some 5-meo in the mycellum of some cubensis to get 5-meo 4-oh dmt
    That exactly what I thought when I first read about doping cacti. Unfortunately, unlike tryptamines, it's harder to whack new groups on other positions of phenethylamines. With mushrooms you can just put in 5-Meo-DMT and let the mushies add on the hydroxy at the magic 4-position but thinking of a suitable chemical to dope cacti with would be more of a challenge. Could it be possible that TMA could be made from amphetamine?!

    Grossly simplifying and assuming they tack on methoxy groups to the phenethylamine, I'm not sure something with methoxy groups at 2,3,4,5 positions would be like or do. You could get some things related to GANESHA and 2C-G, even 2C-O. Trawling through PiHKAL, it seems there's lots of scope for completely unique chemicals. However, the inactivity of 2,3,4-trimethoxyphenethylamine means they might not turn out to be too interesting. Bear in mind this might all be crap as, compared to some people, I don't know shit about this sort of stuff.
    Last edited by turkeyphant; 19-02-2007 at 02:09.

  5. #5
    hmmmm......
    if i injected it with 2ce would it stay stable inside the cactus? that way i can consume the cactus in a couple months and have a 2ce/mescaline trip.

    I wasnt trying to convert the 2ce into a new chemical but rather make my cactus more potent by adding additional psychedelics. I was just worried that the 2ce might kill the whole cactus

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by illusion25
    hmmmm......
    if i injected it with 2ce would it stay stable inside the cactus? that way i can consume the cactus in a couple months and have a 2ce/mescaline trip.
    Why not keep it somewhere stable then inject it in your mouth when you eat the mescaline?!

  7. #7
    Why not keep it somewhere stable then inject it in your mouth when you eat the mescaline?!
    ya that would be much better.


    It would be suprising but unlikely if the 2ce did change the chemistry of the cactus though.


    a little off topic but another idea i thought of once was cross-breeding a cannabis plant with a coca plant. Cocannabis?
    Or try breeding some salvia with some marijuana plants?

    i think of crazy ideas sometimes when i am bored.....

  8. #8
    Bluelight Crew Jamshyd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Not on a train, sadly.
    Posts
    15,490
    Well, the quote says that Tyramine would eventually be converted to Mescaline. Tyramine is 4-Hydroxyphenethylamine. I wonder what would happen 4-halo-phenethylamine was used? I would assume making 4-iodo/bromo-phenehtylamine would be very simple.

    Actually now that I mention it, do we know anything about the activity of 4-halo-phenehtlyamines?

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Jamshyd
    Well, the quote says that Tyramine would eventually be converted to Mescaline. Tyramine is 4-Hydroxyphenethylamine. I wonder what would happen 4-halo-phenethylamine was used? I would assume making 4-iodo/bromo-phenehtylamine would be very simple.

    Actually now that I mention it, do we know anything about the activity of 4-halo-phenehtlyamines?
    If the 4-HO group on tyramine is easily attacked and replaced, why would halogen groups be sufficiently more stable in that position? And even so, what would 3,5-dimethyoxy-4-halophenethylamine be like? If you could get an ethyoxy group to stay at the 4-position you could get 3C-E with 4-ethoxyamphetamine. Again, I'm no expert on this stuff so call bullshit if you think I'm wrong.

    I can't say why, but I would be pretty certain plain 4-halophenethylamines would be completely inactive. The two methoxy groups must be there for a reason and everything in PiHKAL I can think of has three groups on the amphetamine/phenethylamine.

  10. #10
    Bluelight Crew fastandbulbous's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    that rainy little island off europe
    Posts
    19,662
    Quote Originally Posted by Jamshyd
    Well, the quote says that Tyramine would eventually be converted to Mescaline. Tyramine is 4-Hydroxyphenethylamine. I wonder what would happen 4-halo-phenethylamine was used? I would assume making 4-iodo/bromo-phenehtylamine would be very simple.

    Actually now that I mention it, do we know anything about the activity of 4-halo-phenehtlyamines?
    Just as likeley (if not more so) that they would act as an enzyme inhibitors for the one that uses tyramine as a substrate


    It appears that in the plant tyosine breaks down to become tyramine and dopa. These then recombine to form dopamine which is converted to nor-mescaline and finally to mescaline. One can take advantage to this sequence by inject-ing each peyote plant with dopamine 4 weeks prior to harvesting. Much of the dopamine will convert to mescaline during this time
    Bit of a problem with the above statement. How can trosine break down into tyramine AND dopa:
    dopa is 3,4-dihydroxyphenylalanine and tyramine is 4-hydroxyPEA. how does 4-hydroxyphjenylalanine break down into those two products. They aren't going to recombine into dopamine either. Dopamine forms by decarboxylation of DOPA. I can't remember the biosynthetic pathway to mescaline off the top of my head, but I know that part just sounds so wrong. And what is nor-mescaline? Nor-anything implies missing a methyl group from a nitrogen atom (which isn't possible for mescaline), Maybe they meant desmethyl, but either way it reads like gobbldegook.

    Preloading cacti (of most species) with DOPA does increase the final yeild of mescaline as does using dopamine, but I've never seen tyramine referred to

  11. #11
    Bluelight Crew fastandbulbous's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    that rainy little island off europe
    Posts
    19,662
    I think priming it with alpha-methyldopa (blood pressure medication - Aldomet)might be interesting - leads to the posibility of TMA-1 & MMDA in plants that normally produce lophophine (3,4-methylenedioxy-5-methoxyPEA).

  12. #12

    The Big and Dandy Basic Mescaline/Cactus Questions Thread - Round Two!

    We can't tell you as all plants are different, but if you were to go to erowid and do a little research and then do the math yourself you'd be able to figure it out.

    http://www.erowid.org/plants/cacti/cacti_article1.shtml

    If you're lucky the plants contain 2.375% Mescaline.

    If you're lucky you have a about a gram of Mescaline.
    Last edited by SomeKindaLove; 04-07-2008 at 20:37.

  13. #13

    cacti cuttings

    if i get cuttings what must i do to prepare it so i can eat it? i Know that you need to cut away the spine and needles but what are the spines

    if any1 has a working process that they like to use then please post it. i will post the method that i used once i finish it. I hope someone knows a method which will take less than 5 hours
    Last edited by SomeKindaLove; 28-04-2008 at 20:21.

  14. #14
    I may do this soon, so I too have a question. How many inches of cutting would you want to do?

  15. #15
    "A well-known rule of thumb for San Pedro dosages is a piece the length of your forearm (of 3-4 inches in diameter). That comes out to about a foot of average potency material and perhaps 18" of a weak variety and less than a foot if you have a particularly strong specimen. Translate this for the potency difference of T. peruvianus and it looks like the equivalent would be about 6-12" of 3-4" diameter plant."

    answered ask erowid

  16. #16
    here are the methods im thinking about. someone please help me choose the best once and answer what are the spines.

    Method 1:
    1. cut away spines and needles??? what are the spines
    2.use carrot skiner to peel away skin
    3. scrape away and save greenish layer in between skin and fiberous core
    4.let dry until the greenish stuff is hard by sun or heat. ??? but for how long in the sun? or by heat do they mean you can use an oven or something?

    Method 2:
    1. cut away spines and needles
    2. freeze cutting
    3. dethaw collect goo
    4. use carrot skinner to peel away skin
    5. cut up layer in between skin and fiberous core into small chunks
    6. blend up the chunks in blender or food processer
    7. filter out hard stuff
    8. mix goo from step 3. with the blended goo

    Method 3
    1-6 same as before
    7. put mixture in boiling pot with water along with goo from step 3.
    8. boil for 4-12 hours
    9. use a cloth to filter out cactus chunks and keep liquid
    10. drink remaining liquid

  17. #17
    i realize i should have put this thread in this thread but w.e can any1 lead me in the right dirction

    http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthrea...73#post5934773

  18. #18
    plus here are a few quick questions.

    1) does freezing the cactus before working with it help?
    2) what is the best method for drying out the cactus after cutting it into bite sized chunks of the good stuff

  19. #19
    Bluelighter Black's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Europe
    Posts
    2,888
    Quote Originally Posted by read420
    plus here are a few quick questions.

    1) does freezing the cactus before working with it help?
    2) what is the best method for drying out the cactus after cutting it into bite sized chunks of the good stuff
    1. yes, it breaks down the cell walls of fresh cactus

    2. i don't know. why do you want to dry it anyway?

  20. #20
    Administrator swilow's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Shielding off the weakening beams of salvation shining upon the mournful gloom of Earth
    Posts
    29,804
    Quote Originally Posted by read420
    plus here are a few quick questions.

    1) does freezing the cactus before working with it help?
    2) what is the best method for drying out the cactus after cutting it into bite sized chunks of the good stuff
    Freezing, thawing and refreezing several times breaks down cell walls better..... Best method for drying is air drying I've found, if you have a spot. Uusally I just put it on a tray ontop of a bookshelf with a heater on (hot air rises and shit). A few days, and it is crispy dry. Still tastes like fucking shit though but worth it

    The spines are the pokey needles that stick out of cactii. You will find that they are embedded into the flesh, and often need some gentle digging to remove. Incidentally, thats where rot often sets in if you despine it and then leave it for some reason.

  21. #21

    edible trip

    Quote Originally Posted by trip.more
    just eat it
    I tried Peruvian torch a couple weeks ago, at a very low dose( about10-12 inches, blended, boiled and I added a good amount of lemon juice to it during the boil and then I chilled it in the freezer. I managed to get 2 8 oz glasses down without gagging it back up.
    I expected pain or vomiting but had none at all, and the effect was so light I went to bed early. I wasn't disappointed as I knew it was a real low dose. I did notice that things were very sharp in definition, and I was very relaxed. I plan to increase the dose by
    2X the next time, which will be in abot three weeks, maybe I'll try 3X, but I will have to figure out another method of ingesting it. The taste wasn't too bad, but the thickness was rough to manage after I got down to the second 8 oz glass. I might freeze it and try to "just eat it."

  22. #22
    I might freeze it and try to "just eat it."
    that's about the last thing you want to do, seriously - way too much bodyload for most. IME it's always been possible to get a foot down to about a shotglass or two.

    I've found it's better not to reduce the final product down too much and to let this sit overnight as the next day you will find a layer of green sediment has formed. It's this useless gunk that contributes a lot towards the thickness.

  23. #23
    I recently aquired some dried peruvian torch.

    This is the plan.

    1.Powder it.
    2.Mix it with water then filter it.
    3.Take the powder left on the coffee filter and mix with 37.5% vodka.
    4.Shake around and leave for a few hours.
    5.Filter again.This time taking the liquid that comes out.
    6. Drink.

    What yiz think? is this gonna work? If so will it reduce nausea by much?

    Should i boil off the vodka then mix with water and let it separate or do other steps?

    Oh and also..nother question. Boil off the vodka the mix the powder with the minimum possible of this 60% stuff i have (it's only 1 tiny bottle like 50mls) then swirl it around my mouth for 10 minutes then spit out?
    Last edited by vinylmesh; 28-04-2008 at 15:20.

  24. #24
    I've got a question about that extraction video, the one by "your Irkian Master"


    -His end product is a brownish black powder, clearly not pure mescaline. Would one still dose it via the Erowid dosage chart, or would one take into account the fact that it isn't pure and increase dosages?


    Also, how heat-resilient is the chemical?

  25. #25
    ^ YOu would take into account the fact that it is not as pure, so the dosage would be higher...how mcuh higher will take some experimentation to figure out.


    Ok so for the cactus balls method of consuming..

    I do as in this method of prep:
    http://www.erowid.org/plants/cacti/c...aration5.shtml

    and THEN I boil it down even further until it's a kinda gooey little puddle and mix it with flour and roll this up into little balls..

    This right?

Page 1 of 30 123451121 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •