• N&PD Moderators: Skorpio | thegreenhand

  • Neuroscience & Pharmacology Discussion Welcome Guest
    Posting Rules Bluelight Rules
    Recent Journal Articles Chemistry Mega-Thread
    FREE Chemistry Databases! Self-Education Guide

Codeine & dihydrocodeine combination

redeemer

redeemer

Bluelighter
Joined
Sep 14, 2003
Messages
2,135
Hey

I'm thinking of trying a combination of codeine and dihydrocodeine because I don't think the effects are very good separately.

My question is if it's relatively safe to take a high dose of codeine (450 mg) and a high dose of dihydrocodeine (225 mg) simultaneously. Since the codeine is converted to morphine and the dihydrocodeine to dihydromorphine I would think the fact that these are two different substances would cause the doses not to add but more like compliment each other.

Previously I have tried a combination of 300 mg codeine and 185 mg dihydrocodeine (tartate salt) which gave OK effects.

-redeemer
 
The highest dose of codiene that you can take is 400 mg i believe and anything over that will cause a huge histamine release. So take that and the 200 mg of dihydrocodeine and you should be feeling pretty good with not a lot of tolerance. peace.
 
so like 300 is a low dose of codeine or something?

This thread is kinda pointless you already tried it out.

but the only thing that makes codeine stink is it's max dose , so it's smart to get around it with another opiate however effects will add up why wouln't they?
 
any advice on what blocks histamines the most? The best? Some perscription strength anti- histamines maybe? Benadryl just doesn't cut it for me.
 
polaramine is a good strong anti histamine but it does potentiate the sedative qualitys opiates so be carefull
 
aphexia said:
polaramine is a good strong anti histamine but it does potentiate the sedative qualitys opiates so be carefull
Click to expand...

True!
Polaramine (dexchlorpheniramine) is maybe the best antihistamine to take with Opiates.
You don't feel any anticholinergic effect, and it's not sedative.
 
After thinking about this for a while I came to the conclusion that taking codeine and DHC simultaneously really isn't worth it, now I have a question...

Since codeine and DHC (AFAIR) are converted into their respective active metabolite by the same enzyme, wouldn't dosing with the two drugs simultaneously "hog" this enzyme so that a smaller part of the drugs are converted into their active metabolite?

For example; the upper limit of a codeine dose (with no tolerance) is circa 450 mg. So when I take the 185 mg DHC (~370 mg codeine) and 300 mg codeine (~670 mg codeine in total) as explained in the OP, I'm exceeding the theoretical maximum dose of 450 mg?
 
Nah theres no way that theres not enough enzymes to convert the two doses. Also when you say that your taking a total of 670mg codeine you dont really know what your saying. Your thinking that since 185mg DHC id equal to 370mg codeine that it will add up like that but it doesnt. Take the two doses and youll feel a lot better than just taking a big codeine dose.
 
^ OK. So if the maximum dosage of 450 mg codeine isn't an enzymatically related limitation then what is it?
 
Last edited:
I found the following quote from a codeine FAQ linked to by Erowid:

"Codeine tends to saturate the cytochrome 2D6 in effect making it work less efficiently; i.e. each dose of codeine lowers the effects of latter doses (during short period of time, eg 0-6 hours between doses)." (1)

Based on the first part of the quote it seems that codeine does in fact saturate the enzyme used to convert it to morphine, but reading the whole sentence makes it look like the only effect this has is it decreases the effects from dosing at intervals smaller than 6 hours. So is this saturation too small to prevent the DHC from being converted?

Should this perhaps be moved to ADD? Just a though since it's not getting alot of attention in here...
 
^
if it worked last time why wouldnt it work now?

you said with 185 of dhc as a complement to the codeine you got good effects?
 
^ It's not that it isn't working, I'm just not sure if it's working enough so to speak. I have no access to these drugs in my country so I buy them over the internet which makes it not so easy and not so cheap as it would be OTC, hence my cheapness concerning this ;).

The 185 mg DHC in additon to the codeine gave OK effects, but I'm not sure if it's worth it when the dosage has been more than doubled (185 mg DHC ~370 mg codeine). This is what leads me to think that this particular enzyme becomes saturated.
 
Yeah, I've been looking for a good antihistamine that isn't sedating as well. Last time I was on opiates I had to take 30mg claritin (above the dosage recommended for 24 hrs. on the box), and I still itched.

I think it was because I was taking poppy tea, which contains codeine, and I have CYP2D6 inhibition thanks to my anti-depressant, and I think my prilosec inhibits cyp3a4 as well (not sure yet, maybe it doesn't), so I have codeine sitting there unmetabolized making me itch like crazy... my eyelids were even starting to puff up a bit.
 
blase deviant said:
Yeah, I've been looking for a good antihistamine that isn't sedating as well. Last time I was on opiates I had to take 30mg claritin (above the dosage recommended for 24 hrs. on the box), and I still itched.
Click to expand...

The best non-sedating antihistamines to use on opiates are:
-dexchlorpheniramine
-cetirizine

Loratadine (Claritin) doesn't work very well...
 
blase deviant said:
Yeah, I've been looking for a good antihistamine that isn't sedating as well. Last time I was on opiates I had to take 30mg claritin (above the dosage recommended for 24 hrs. on the box), and I still itched.

I think it was because I was taking poppy tea, which contains codeine, and I have CYP2D6 inhibition thanks to my anti-depressant, and I think my prilosec inhibits cyp3a4 as well (not sure yet, maybe it doesn't), so I have codeine sitting there unmetabolized making me itch like crazy... my eyelids were even starting to puff up a bit.
Click to expand...

i would say it is the thebaine in the poppy tea making you feel that, because if you CYP2D6 enzyme is inhibited then the codiene is not going to do much !
 
Hey guys, can anyone answer this? I figured you'd be better equipped at answering such questions than the Other Drugs crowd, hence the move:

redeemer said:
After thinking about this for a while I came to the conclusion that taking codeine and DHC simultaneously really isn't worth it, now I have a question...

Since codeine and DHC (AFAIR) are converted into their respective active metabolite by the same enzyme, wouldn't dosing with the two drugs simultaneously "hog" this enzyme so that a smaller part of the drugs are converted into their active metabolite?

For example; the upper limit of a codeine dose (with no tolerance) is circa 450 mg. So when I take the 185 mg DHC (~370 mg codeine) and 300 mg codeine (~670 mg codeine in total) as explained in the OP, I'm exceeding the theoretical maximum dose of 450 mg?
Click to expand...
redeemer said:
I found the following quote from a codeine FAQ linked to by Erowid:

"Codeine tends to saturate the cytochrome 2D6 in effect making it work less efficiently; i.e. each dose of codeine lowers the effects of latter doses (during short period of time, eg 0-6 hours between doses)." (1)

Based on the first part of the quote it seems that codeine does in fact saturate the enzyme used to convert it to morphine, but reading the whole sentence makes it look like the only effect this has is it decreases the effects from dosing at intervals smaller than 6 hours. So is this saturation too small to prevent the DHC from being converted?
Click to expand...
 
If they are both metabolised by the same enzyme, then yes, taking a 50/50 (or 70/30.. whatever) combination of a given dose of the two drugs would have the same enzyme saturation as taking 100% of one of either.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top