• ⭐️ ⭐️ ⭐️ ⭐️ ⭐️ ⭐️ ⭐️ ⭐️ ⭐️ ⭐️ ⭐️ ⭐️ ⭐️ ⭐️



    Film & Television

    Welcome Guest


    ⭐️ ⭐️ ⭐️ ⭐️ ⭐️ ⭐️ ⭐️ ⭐️ ⭐️ ⭐️ ⭐️ ⭐️ ⭐️ ⭐️
  • ⭐️ ⭐️ ⭐️ ⭐️ ⭐️ ⭐️ ⭐️ ⭐️ ⭐️ ⭐️ ⭐️ ⭐️ ⭐️ ⭐️
    Forum Rules Film Chit-Chat
    Recently Watched Best Documentaries
    ⭐️ ⭐️ ⭐️ ⭐️ ⭐️ ⭐️ ⭐️ ⭐️ ⭐️ ⭐️ ⭐️ ⭐️ ⭐️ ⭐️
  • Film & TV Moderators: ghostfreak

film: sicko - moore at it again, controversy the best remedy for moore

rate this movie

  • [img]http://i.bluelight.ru/g//543/1star.gif[/img]

    Votes: 2 7.4%
  • [img]http://i.bluelight.ru/g//543/2stars.gif[/img]

    Votes: 2 7.4%
  • [img]http://i.bluelight.ru/g//543/3stars.gif[/img]

    Votes: 1 3.7%
  • [img]http://i.bluelight.ru/g//543/4stars.gif[/img]

    Votes: 8 29.6%
  • [img]http://i.bluelight.ru/g//543/5stars.gif[/img]

    Votes: 14 51.9%

  • Total voters
    27

wanderlust

Bluelighter
Joined
Jan 6, 2002
Messages
3,755
film: sicko - moore at it again, controversy the best remedy for moore [merged]

my favorite fattie is going for it again
there are cries of exploitation of 9/11 rescue workers and so on. generally he is just doing his usual over the top bullshit trying to stick a spiked land mine as far up w's ass as he possibly can.

Filmmaker Michael Moore’s production company took ailing Ground Zero responders to Cuba in a stunt aimed at showing that the U.S. health-care system is inferior to Fidel Castro’s socialized medicine, according to several sources with knowledge of the trip.

The trip was to be filmed as part of the controversial director’s latest documentary, “Sicko,” an attack on American drug companies and HMOs that Moore hopes to debut at the Cannes Film Festival next month.

Two years in the making, the flick also takes aim at the medical care being provided to people who worked on the toxic World Trade Center debris pile, according to several 9/11 workers approached by Moore’s producers.

But the sick sojourn, which some say uses ill 9/11 workers as pawns, has angered many in the responder community.

“He’s using people that are in a bad situation and that’s wrong, that’s morally wrong,” railed Jeff Endean, a former SWAT commander from Morris County, N.J., who spent a month at Ground Zero and suffers from respiratory problems.

A spokeswoman for the Weinstein Co., the film’s distributor, would not say when the director’s latest expose would hit cinemas or provide details about the film or the trip.

Responders were told Cuban doctors had developed new techniques for treating lung cancer and other respiratory illness, and that health care in the communist country was free, according to those offered the two-week February trip.

Cuba has made recent advancements in biotechnology and exports its cancer treatments to 40 countries around the world, raking in an estimated $100 million a year, according to The Associated Press.

In 2004 the U.S. government granted an exception to its economic embargo against Cuba and allowed a California drug company to test three cancer vaccines developed in Havana, according to the AP.

Regardless, some ill 9/11 workers balked at Moore’s idea.

“I would rather die in America than go to Cuba,” said Joe Picurro, a Toms River, N.J., ironworker approached by the filmmaker via an e-mail that read, “Joe and Mike in Cuba.”

After helping remove debris from Ground Zero, Picurro has a laundry list of respiratory and other ailments so bad that he relies on fund-raisers to help pay his expenses.

He said, “I just laughed. I couldn’t do it.”

Another ill worker who said he was willing to take the trip ended up being stiffed by Moore.

Michael McCormack, 48, a disabled medic who found an American flag at Ground Zero that once flew atop the Twin Towers, was all set to go to.

The film crew contacted him by phone and took him by limo from his Ridge, L.I., home to Manhattan for an on-camera interview.

“What he [Moore] wanted to do is shove it up George W’s rear end that 9/11 heroes had to go to a communist country to get adequate health care,” said McCormack, who suffers from chronic respiratory illness.

But McCormack said he was abandoned by Moore. At a March fund-raiser for another 9/11 responder in New Jersey, McCormack learned Moore had gone to Cuba without him.

“It’s the ultimate betrayal,” he said. “You’re promised that you’re going to be taken care of and then you find out you’re not. He’s trying to profiteer off of our suffering.”

Moore’s publicist did not return calls from The Post. But McCormack played a tape for The Post of a telephone conversation between himself and a Moore producer. The woman is heard apologizing for not taking McCormack, while saying the production company was not offering anyone guarantees of a cure.

“Even for the people that we did bring down to Cuba, we said we can promise that you will be evaluated, that you will get looked at,” said the woman. “We can’t promise that you will get fixed.”

Participants in the Cuba trip were forced to sign a confidentiality agreement prohibiting them from talking about the project, the sources said.

Travel to Cuba is severely restricted from the United States, but Moore’s crew was granted access, the producer told McCormack, through a “general license that allows for journalistic endeavors there.”

Some called the trip a success, at least logistics-wise.

“From what I heard through the grapevine, those people that went are utterly happy,” said John Feal, who runs the Fealgood Foundation to help raise money for responders and was approached by Moore to find responders willing to take the trip.

“They got the Elvis treatment.”

Although he has been a critic of Cuba, Moore grew popular there after a pirated version of his movie, “Fahrenheit 9/11,” was played on state-owned TV.

Additional reporting provided by Jill Culora, Susan Edelman and Ginger Adams Otis

http://havanajournal.com/politics/entry/michael-moore-cuba-and-9-11-workers-read-on/
 
Good.

I don't understand how it can be Michael Moore's fault some people missed out on this trip and therefore did not get adequate medical treatment. The whole point is they should be able to get medical treatment at home.
 
Excellent. However, I think it would have been more effect if he compared US healthcare system to Canada's, you know hit closer to home:)_
 
"I'd rather die in america than go to cuba"

this mentality is something that makes me feel sick when thinking of americans.
 
yes, but the fact that he can take people to a communist country and get better treatment than in free enterprise, equal rights, capitalistic america, etc. is his point.
 
L2R said:
this mentality is something that makes me feel sick when thinking of americans.

these colors dont run! blind patriotism! xenophobia! isolationalism! freak out!
 
every film he makes.. i always want to see it.. and am later equally pleased he made it and annoyed at him at the same time.

he's not great at fact checking (bowling for columbine), sometimes he doesn't really deliver the full punch needed (F 9/11), and then when he speaks about his shit in an unscripted thought-out manner to promote his films.. he just sounds like a dumb ass, even if what he's standing for is noble.

I heard about this film a long time ago and was rather excited until i just read this bit. America's healthcare has a lot wrong with it. A ton. Both from a socialist point of view, and from a free market point of view.

TO be political: i don't think there's an answer. Socialist healthcare in this country simply wouldn't work. America takes socialist ideas that work elsewhere in the world and tends to ruin them. We just don't manage them well. We really would, see a decrease in the quality of care and the system, like every other half asses social system we have, would be clogged and strained and become a failure.

But the "free market" (i say that with quotes, b/c it's anything but free market.. .more like socialism that favors corporations over people) side isn't no answer either. The FDA is a corporate stacked house not really protecting anyone and wasting billions, the deregulation of advertising has turned pharmacudicals into drug pushers (as well as doctor's who over prescribe), the cost of basic healthcare is far too expensive, instead of finding drugs that actually do some good they're busy changing one molecule in already existing drugs to resell them for a higher dollar amount, they work to keep things prescription and controlled in order to inflate prices, and the entire patent/copyright system is blocking competition in a system that so dearly needs it. We need market innovation to drive prices down, and when it's controlled by a monopolistic few.. we'll never see that.

But to compare america to cuba... is just a bit loaded. YOu're already turning away 50% of this nation from seeing good points to make, but comparing them to "commies". Even a majority of democrats would be afraid to publicly pat Cuba on the back for anything. Even to word it "that shitty commie nation is doing better than us" could easily get twisted in the media and ruin a politicians career.

He'll get nothing but spat at for this and the manner in which he's approaching it. I don't really care he's pushing for socialized medicine, i honestly applaud anyone (from any perspective) that wants to truly and honestly improve our medical system... but to be so politically loaded isn't going to win any battles, hearts, or minds.
 
Well, perhaps americans need to finally swallow the pride that's been choking them from real progress for far too long.
 
Michael Moore = <%3|O< (fat man ... large breasts)

hint: look at the symbols sideways
 
this is what moore had to say about sicko in july 2006:

Friends,

Just a quick note to let you know how things are going.

Back in February, I asked if people would send me letters describing their experiences with our health care system. I received over 19,000 of them. It was truly overwhelming as we literally took a month and read them all. To read about the misery people are put through on a daily basis by our profit-based system was both moving and revolting. That's all I will say right now.

We've spent the better part of this year shooting our next movie, "Sicko." As we've done with our other films, we don't discuss them while we are making them. If people ask, we tell them "Sicko" is "a comedy about 45 million people with no health care in the richest country on earth."

But like my other movies, what we start with (General Motors, guns, 9/11) is not always what we end with. Along the way, we discover new roads to go down, roads that often surprise us and lead us to new ideas -- and challenge us to reconsider the ones we began with. That, I can say with certainty, is happening now as we shoot "Sicko." I don't think the country needs a movie that tells you that HMOs and the pharmaceutical companies suck. Everybody knows that. I'd like to show you some things you don't know. So stay tuned for where this movie has led me. I think you might enjoy it.

At this point, we've shot about 75% of "Sicko" and will soon begin putting it together. It will be released in theaters sometime in 2007.

it would be great if he fulfills his letter here with new ideas. not 'looks good on paper' ideas but something that will really fuel a change that can and will work.
that is one thing his movies have lacked. i loved roger and me. it was my first taste of moore over 10 years ago in high school and i have been enamoured since. but looking at it now... where did it get us? did it produce the change? was flint rebuilt or brought above the poverty levels shown in the film? was it even possible to make that change?
more power to the people like moore that shove in people's faces that 'things' are wrong, 'things' are falling short and so on... but what i want to see now is these people taking action. to see his movies be a catalyst for something different. some may argue that it is not a possibility. others will bring out what they see as a change in the government stance and admittance on global warming after an inconvenient truth.
so moore.... let's see some leadership and results. is it put up or shut up time for my fat man? partly, but if he isn't going to be able to bring about the change at lest he should continue to plant the seeds in the minds of the movie goers like he has over th last fifteen years.
 
wanderlust said:
yes, but the fact that he can take people to a communist country and get better treatment than in free enterprise, equal rights, capitalistic america, etc. is his point.

Don't want to start a ideology war but there is no such thing as a communist country. Cuba is socialist and although that probably sounds almost as "bad" as communism to Americans, Cuba has managed to do pretty well over the past few years. Although I disagree with Fidel Castro as leader I cannot think of anyone who can do better at this stage. The problem with Cuba is that it's at a standstill and not going anywhere at the moment when there's definitely room for improvement.

On topic: Michael Moore's documentaries are interesting but I always see them from a one-sided point of view.

I do believe that Americas health system does need a shitload of improvement, but having a socialist medical system would not work in the U.S as so many people seem to hate the idea of anything to do with socialism or communism. They should just fucking spend more money on looking after their own people than spending so much on Iraq.
Nevertheless I'd probably go and see this docco anyway.
 
wanderlust... is it "free enterprise"?

Really?

That's the thing that bothers me about many. They see 2 options. What's proposed as "free enterprise" and "free market", but it's not. Not in the least. Is corporations writing legislation "free?" Is having a protection agency such as the FDA and making it a stacked house ..."free"?

How much of our medical care is screwed up b/c corporations get special interest from our government?

Government intervention in the market negates the claim of a "free market". It doesn't matter if the government is restricting or aiding.. the government still has it's dick in it...making it "socialized". Sure it's not a socialism that favors people/the populace.. but it's socialism nonetheless.

And that's why "socialism" in the terms that most people think of it.. would never work in a country with 70% (made up) of the world's most powerful corporations. They have far too much control over our government. Any "people's plan" would get muddied.
 
personally i agree with both what you and captain commie have said.... but that is not technically a discussion for this thread or forum. in fact i dont really believe any of the three terms i used to describe america are fully true.
im my post i was simply saying why moore took people to cuba instead of some place like canada. it wasn't really about my views but what i have gathered from the moore website about why he has chosen cuba. most people know moore plays fast and loose with terms and facts (as seen in almost all of his films and books). my statement was a reflection of that, but i see now that that was not entirely clear.
besides if he took these people to canada that would be no where near as sensational

now, i dont mind if we continue with this type of discussion if no one else has objections. arguments and talking points such as the ones brought up by this movie are the reasons i make threads on michael moore in here.
and i'd like to see if anyone actually believes that a national health system could feasibly work in america.
 
don't they say, if you put your mind to it, it can be done?

well, it might be tough in a downward sliding economy but a financially healthy america are entirely capable of having an adequate national socialist styled healthcare system.

if only the population could get over their relatively ancient prejudices.
 
prejudices and perhaps greed and their aversion to inconvenience, too.

canada is having a hell of a time with their system right now. i just read an article that while people can get the care they need they are waiting obscenely long times. there are people waiting months and longer to start chemotherapy and other such life saving measures... and they do not have the option to move to another private clinic doctor and get immediate care because it is illegal for doctors to take any money for a service covered by the national health plan. it is great to have a plan that will not be preferential to the rich... but this seems to be serving no one.
(source: 'still waiting to see the doctor', lorrie goldstein, the toronto sun)
 
^yeah that sucks too.
the aus health care system aint the best, but having distinct private and public healthcare frees up the latter to those who can't afford the government subsidised private services.
 
When I watch Michael Moore's movies.. it makes me wanna shoot my own foot.
 
film: sicko - moore at it again, controversy the best remedy for moore [merged]

Controversy the best remedy for pioneer Moore

Michelle Griffin
May 20, 2007

A DOCUMENTARY about the US health-care system would seem, at first glance, an improbable contender for the hottest ticket at Cannes. But not when the film in question is Sicko, the latest agit-prop documentary by Michael Moore.

It just goes to show how his previous film, Fahrenheit 9/11, changed the popular culture landscape when it won the Palme D'Or at Cannes three years ago. Fahrenheit 9/11 was the Titanic of documentaries, a blockbuster that earned $US222.4 million worldwide at the box office. Although Moore didn't invent the prank documentary, he did more than anybody to establish the genre as part of the political dialogue.

Moore's documentaries are obvious influences on Morgan Spurlock's fast-food film Supersize Me, the World Bank-spoofing The Yes Men, and perhaps even paved the way for Borat's American reception. He has even spawned a sub-genre of anti-Moore documentaries devoted to criticising his work, the latest of which, Manufacturing Dissent, is also doing healthy business on the festival circuit.

At a time when many young Americans say they get their news from cable TV news satire The Daily Show, and in Australia The Chaser's War on Everything consistently outrates any of the ABC's current affairs programs, it could be argued that the satiric documentary has more clout than conventional reportage. It certainly attracts far more attention.

"I think he's fantastic," says The Chaser's executive producer, Julian Morrow. "The way he mixes polemics with satiric commentary and comedy is extremely good." Morrow cites Moore's TV program The Naked Truth as an inspiration, particularly the episode where Moore escorted "the lung cancer throat choir" to the offices of Philip Morris — "an untoppable example of a guerilla stunt with a satirical point".

In the week before yesterday's premiere of Sicko at Cannes, Moore proved once again a grandmaster at using controversy to generate publicity for his film.

Sections of the film have already been shown to interested groups, such as nurses, to help generate word-of-mouth. Moore also hired political consultant Chris Lehane, best known for advising Bill Clinton during the Lewinsky affair, to help combat any pushback from pharmaceutical and insurance companies.

Moore's studio backers are the equally bulky and publicity-savvy Weinstein brothers. Last Wednesday, they kick-started the controversy by announcing that they'd smuggled the master print of Sicko out of the US so the feds could not seize it. On Thursday, Moore announced on his website that the US Treasury was investigating him for breaching the trade embargo with Cuba while filming in Havana. Although Moore suggests that the investigation could block the film's release, the penalty is more likely to be a fine.

Director Oliver Stone's production company was last year fined $US6300 ($A7660) for two Cuban jaunts to make documentaries about Fidel Castro.

Nevertheless, on Friday, Moore lodged a freedom of information request, asking for all documents pertaining to the investigation of his trip.

When a reporter from Entertainment Weekly congratulated Moore on this publicity-generating gift from the Government, the filmmaker protested that "I don't really need this hassle".

One of Moore's most prominent detractors, neo-conservative blogger Jim Kenefick, has discovered that the anonymous donor who paid his wife's $12,000 medical bill was none other than Michael Moore. "I'm not an idiot," Kenefick told the New York Daily News on Friday. "I know when to say yes to something, even if the string attached is obvious. What kind of moron turns down a free 12 grand?"

Moore has freely admitted that all the news headlines can only help him promote his movie. "(The authorities) are that divorced from the popular culture," he told EW. "They don't really understand me, the impact of my films, or how what they did will only bring more people to the film."
http://www.theage.com.au/news/enter...1179497342167.html?page=fullpage#contentSwap1
 
Film: 'Sicko' (Michael Moore's New Film)

Sorry if this breaks the rules or is in the wrong section, but I think everyone here will want to see this. [please do not solicit/advertise piracy]
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Top