film: sicko - moore at it again, controversy the best remedy for moore

[Infernal]

Wow, wonderful movie. It brings alot of good points to the fore. However, I have to agree with DD. The one thing Moore does badly is be sincere. He comes across as a moron. Don't let that detract from the basic statement of the movie however. As m885 pointed out, most Americans understand that our health care system is in saaaaad shape.

 

[L2R]

fascinating insight in the state of things in the states. fuckin disgusting. if i were in the states, i'd put all my attention in getting the fuck out.

 

[wanderlust]

In the realm of documentary filmmaking there is no greater icon than Michael Moore, but are his films really the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth?
At what point does the manipulation of "fact" become a work of fiction?
See for yourself when the lens is turned on the most controversial director of our time. Discover the film that Michael Moore doesn't want you to see: 'Manufacturing Dissent'.

see it here

 

[DigitalDuality]

yes, yes... yet ANOTHER film made about a film maker.

How stupid. If they really want to go after moore, how about a counterpoint film on the message rather than the messenger.

 

[jpgrdnr]

I 2nd the notion that Health Care in Canada is complete garbage! Don't follow our communist agenda!

Its going 2-Tier anyways. In a city in Ontario I was just in there was a waiting list of 700 people to get a GP.

In Nova Scotia my grandmother has to wait a year for a nursing home.

There are tons of examples...shortages of nurses...specialists, etc.

Moore is VASTLY incorrect in comparing US to Canada. I understand that in the US you may have to pay for emergency surgery not covered by your insurance, which is wrong. BUT, do not look to Canada for how it is done. The system is on its last legs.

 

[rashandreflex]

the film is full of propaganda, but it's a good kick-in-the pants for uninformed, lackadaisical, cheetos-inhaling americans content with the status quo.

 

[bRoken&foRgoTTen]

i liked the movie. def gets 4 stars ... and gotta admit as someone with no health insurance who racked up a $96,000 medical bill when i was in a fire ... i felt the pain those people are going through

gotta admit ... i couldnt help tearing up just a little watching this

 

[Chicago66]

I haven't seen this movie yet, but I'm sure it will be entertaining to watch.

One thing I like about his films is that even if they are wrong on any level, they're at least somewhat informative to the generally uninformed populous.

He brings issues to light that everyone should know about.

So I guess some good comes from his bias.

 

[smotpoker]

5 stars.

It is wrong how we treat many of our own. You really can't deny the facts, our country leaves people to die. I understand Canada isn't so great either, but at least they don't deny people care that they need because they can't afford it.

Now France on the other hand, I don't understand why we can't afford to have a system like there's.

Sure it's a smaller country with a smaller population, but all that would mean is we'd have more tax dollars coming in to pay for UHC.

It's the same formula any where you go when it concerns national health care.

 

[Hops]

^ no kidding, france is where its at

do my laundry bitch!

 

[mariacallas]

Excellent documentary. Some parts really affected me and I found myself laughing and crying at some points.
Im not really familiar with moores past films (not really interested) but I'm really glad I watched this.
I cant believe we used to travel to the States for vacations with no medical insurance at all. I would NEVER want to be in a situation where I (or my loved ones) might not receive adequate care in case of an accident or whatever.

 

[MyDoorsAreOpen]

Now France on the other hand, I don't understand why we can't afford to have a system like there's.

It's the same formula any where you go when it concerns national health care.

I say the same thing about Japan's. How do they -- the most technologically advanced and one of the most fiercely capitalist countries in the world --manage to have a semi-socialized system where everyone is well served?

In Japan, there is private health insurance, which is provided by workplaces as a perk, like in the US. But for people who don't get that as a benefit, there is a cheap, bare-bones national insurance plan provided by the Japanese government. All essential care is covered, any legal resident of Japan can join, people can see whatever doctor they want because they ALL accept the national plan, and care is delivered in a timely fashion.

There's a lot of things that are easy-peasy-Japaneasy (somehow they fly only in Japan, and are not replicable elsewhere). But I don't see how this is one of them. All that would be needed is to revamp and divert more funding to existing US government plans like medicare and medicaid.

There's no way the US can be competitive on the world stage without maintaining a healthy citizenry.

 

[TheodoreRoosevelt]

America takes socialist ideas that work elsewhere in the world and tends to ruin them.

Where in the world do socialist ideas work at all? Democrats want to take failed policies abroad and implement them in America. Socialized health-care has failed everywhere implemented, and the only failures in the American system are because of socialist ideals, such as Medicare, Social Security, licensures, the FDA, et cetera...

This movie just blatantly lies and spins everything. Terrible, yet again.

 

[MrMoss]

Health care has failed everywhere implemented primarily due to the associated costs of people living longer. That of course is reversing somewhat with bad diet, desk jobs etc

At one time I had as much right to X medical treatment as anyone else regardless of my means now I can jump the queue and live longer if I have the cash to do so and by the same token die early if I don't.

Moore raises very valid points it's just a shame the fat fucker feels the need to turn it into a pantomime devaluing the social commentary.

 

[paradoxcycle]

Where in the world do socialist ideas work at all? Democrats want to take failed policies abroad and implement them in America. Socialized health-care has failed everywhere implemented, and the only failures in the American system are because of socialist ideals, such as Medicare, Social Security, licensures, the FDA, et cetera...

This movie just blatantly lies and spins everything. Terrible, yet again.

It depends on whether you really mean socialized healthcare or socialized insurance. The UK is the only western first world country with socialized healthcare where doctors are employed by the government (universally, that is, other countries may have government hospitals but they compete with private hospitals). Other first world nations have socialized health insurance where payment is guaranteed by the government but people visit private hospitals. Nobody in the US right now is really proposing socialized healthcare, just insurance. France is a good example of a successful one.

• Socialized medicine doesn't always mean lower quality. While privatization of industry always increases quality, at what point do you factor in the law of diminishing returns? A system where the rich enjoy superior healthcare at the expense of basic healthcare for the poor and middle class doesn't make sense. I've seen examples in Australia, France, the UK, Canada, and even Brazil where universal healthcare works. It's not perfect and has its challenges, but do those challenges warrant the insane amount premiums we pay and very poor customer service we get from Cigna, Humana, Blue Cross, etc? I don't think so. Rumor even has it that socialized Cuba has doctors and technology comparable, if not better than some in the US.
  
  
• I have received universal healthcare to my satisfaction (usually). I visited socialized Brazil and received delightful healthcare on several accounts with no superfluous waiting periods. I got stitches in my head for free at a very clean facility, I visited the doctor for cold medication several times only having to pay about $2.50 for drugs, and my friend got a highly subsidized, quality root canal on demand. I also received sub-par care while having an ingrown toe nail removed in the country, but I've also received sub-par medical care here in the good ole US of A. Considering how much a US doctor might have charged for my toe infection, I still would have taken the sub-par, albeit functional Brazilian healthcare in lieu of paying several thousands of dollars for US healthcare. Imagine the possibilities of a high quality, American universal healthcare system, then!
  
  
• I've been screwed by US healthcare. In addition to my parents and numerous other paying clients, US health insurance companies will actually look for ways to maximize profits at the expense of your health. Good business requires the maximization of profits, but good business in this sense compromises life which is ultimately bad business. "Denial management specialists" are real folks, and that's just wrong.
  
  
• Doctors can still get paid well by the government. One important factor to remember in this discussion is that doctors in a capital market have the right to achieve limitless financial success. I sympathize with that right but now believe we should socialize that right here in America like we have done for policemen, librarians, municipal workers, fireman, government employees, and any other profession with a salary cap. But socialized medicine doesn't equal Commie results. And do you know who the number one most desired client is in the private sector? The Federal Government. That's right, they pay on time, they pay very well, and there's no reason they wouldn't do the same for doctors, especially good ones with incentives. If a good family doctor in the socialized UK can make $200,000/year, why can't it be the same if not better here in the US?
  
  
• Micheal Moore's SiCKO makes a convincing, albeit dramatized case. After seeing the screener, I came away moved and floored, enough in fact to push me over the edge on the subject. The subject matter speaks for itself. According to the film, the US is the last country in the western hemisphere without universal healthcare while many other countries such as the UK, France, and Cuba enjoy systems that work far more often than they fail. Sure the film glamorizes the disputed and free Canadian healthcare system, but Moore's film dexterity shines bright, patronizing dialog aside. Filter the filmaker's bias accordingly, and you'll find copious amounts of evidence in favor of a universal healthcare system for Americans.
  
  
• Our privatized healthcare system is ineffective, costly, and dehumanizing. I realize universal healthcare costs money (read: higher taxes), that revolutionizing the system is only possible by including healthcare companies in some way, and that the American dream comes at a price. But must that price include for-profit healthcare that is broken for more people than it superiorly helps? I no longer think so.

 

[tambourine-man]

Amazing.

I knew things were bad in the US healthcare system... but I didn't know they were that bad! I still struggle to understand how a country like the US can do that to it's people??? It boggles my mind that when someone gets ill, an immediate concern could be about whether you can afford to get treatment... and if you do receive treatment, whether you'll have the time to recuperate or receive palliative care.

Stunning.

As somebody who works in a research/managerial role in the UK NHS, my abiding thought from the film was simply this:

"I am paid by the NHS to find ways of getting the most disadvantaged and most needy into service and to close the health inequalities gap - whether that be by direct marketing or by redesigning services to maximise accessibility. That's right! We actually design our services to ensure that the most people possible can use them. And if the most needy aren't where we thought they were or they lack the power to express their needs, I'm paid to go find them, consult with them, and give them a voice when the commissioning of health services occurs."

The idea that people are being 'treated' (pardon the ironic pun) as if they were simply risks to the profits is fucking unconscionable.

Second thoughts... the hospital dumping people on the streets or the hospital that denied treatment to a child who later went into cardiac arrest. If either of those things happened in the UK, there'd be a fucking outcry. Seriously, it'd hit national news and the doctors concerned would probably be struck off. If not for malpractice, then for their absence of ethics. The NHS isn't perfect (it had tough times due to chronic underinvestment and a short-sighted approach to public health management under Thatcher), but at the end of the day... if I get cancer I will be treated according to my needs, not my financial wealth.

Yes, it may be considered more expensive for some. There are a lucky few of us who will get through life without a single health complaint or need for medical attention... and for those people, paying for other people's socialised treatment seems like a waste. But when it comes to handing out injuries and diseases, fate generally doesn't give a fuck about how much you've paid... and neither do we. If you get some bizarre disease that requires experimental treatment, you'll either need a generous HMO or be a millionaire to fund treatment. Over here, you'll need to registered with a GP and be assertive enough to ask. That's it.

We all contribute to the National Insurance scheme in the hope that our collective taxation will save us in times of dire need, and gradually improve the national health over the years. A healthy nation is one that will ultimately be more productive, more confident and better equipped to succeed.

I dearly, dearly hope you guys get it sorted. There's too many of you on Bluelight that don't deserve to get fucked by some greedy HMO on a technicality. As drug users, you're already in the high risk category.

I think Moore nailed it when he showed his humourous clips of the dreaded socialism! :D Get over it. You won't turn into Communists if you help your fellow man.