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Meth You've never had racemic methamphetamine

Methamphetanonymous

Bluelighter
Joined
Jun 4, 2024
Messages
288
Location
The Liberated One
Greetings folks. Like others in the meth community; methodists if you will... I've heard many a tale of a bright young tweaker scoring that fresh bag only to take a hit and be plagued with nasty side effects and no pleasurable euphoria. The dreaded racemic batch; a 50/50 mixture of the dextrorotary and levorotary methamphetamine isomers often abbreviated simply d-meth and l-meth (sometimes R-meth and S-)meth.

As many are aware the d-meth isomer is said to be responsible for the desired recreational effects, whereas the l-isomer is reportedly at best entirely inert causing no effect and at worst exacerbating the unpleasant peripheral nervous system side effects to a point where any euphoria or motivation is shrouded in unpleasantness. At a glance this makes sense, the dextro isomer has a massive affinity for dopamine neurotransmitter release often called the pleasure chemical or the reward chemical, whereas the levo isomer has nearly no dopamine affinity but rather a massive and lengthy surge of adrenaline via norepinephrine release. I mean, up until quite recently levomethamphetamine was the active ingredient in Vicks brand over the counter congestion inhalers. The DEA wouldn't let any old 12 year old walk into CVS and buy a stick of meth right? (Laughs nervously while chewing on a Benzedrix cotton)

I'm here to tell you all that the chances of accidentally scoring a bag of racemic methamphetamine on the street is near enough to absurd that most meth users have never had it happen; and if they did have it happen it would but quite obvious.

So how would this happen anyways? I'm going to skip the lesson on stereochemistry and isomers as I assume the Bluelight audience is familiar enough with the concept to understand this material. Why would anyone even synthesize racemic meth if it's possible to simply make pure dextromethamphetamine. It starts with the precursors, essentially the starting point when making methamphetamine. A precursor is simply the chemical that a chemist intents to transform into the desired product using other chemicals called reagents or reactants. Think of it like a square that a sculptor will chisel away into a triangle. You would start with a circle as that would be more difficult; so you pick a shape that is already somewhat close to the one you want.

In the case of methamphetamine, the known precursors chemists use are two alkaloids that are naturally present within certain species Ephedra bush called ephedrine and pseudoephedrine (I will use PSE to refer to both of these chemicals as in this write up they are essentially interchangeable) which have existed since the dawn of time, and a metabolite of methamphetamine discovered in the mid 20th century called 1-phenyl-2-propanone(P2P/phenylacetone) in the USA and is also called benzyl-methyl-ketone(BMK) in Europe. All three chemicals are closely monitored and or illegal/difficult for a consumer to aquire in meaningful quanitites pretty much globally. Thus, a common way to source these chemicals is to purchase legal and unmonitored essential chemicals and create PSE or P2P from scratch.

PSE are chiral molecules just like methamphetamine, and interestingly only one of the two isomers actually exists naturally. The other is never produced by nature and didn't exist until it was made artificially. As it happens; the natural isomers reduce in chemical reaction into simply d-meth, it is not possible to yield any l-meth from a PSE reduction therefore any meth made using PSE as a starting material can only be the pure desired recreational version of meth.

P2P on the other hand is not chiral, it has no d and l isomer, and because of that it is randomly divided into d-meth and l-meth during the reaction process. This statistically gives you a racemic product; or an even half and half isomer content. It's somewhat puzzling why someone would then use P2P as a pecursor... ever. Even pharmaceutical compositions of meth for theraputic medical purposes requires the d isomer for best results, so there's really no meaningful reason to produce l-meth... it's not THAT good of a decongestant.

The reason pharmaceutical companies and clandestine Willy Wonkas like P2P over PSE come down to cost and efficiency; as it stands in 2024 P2P is much easier to make from legal chemicals than PSE, the reaction is consistently high yielding and pure regardless of your skill at chemistry, and most of all the most popular route from P2P to meth is the easiest one to scale up to a manufacturing level that can produce massive quantities of meth very quickly. All the major routes of reducing PSE either are impossible to scale up, or logistically far too risky either due to the destructive and dangerous chemicals that can't be handled in bulk, or the near impossibility of perform large reductions discreetly due to smells, sounds, or the size of facility required.

PSE is a good material to use as a precursor for an amateur "cook" in the garage making a few grams a month, but not for Cartels gangs, and the CIA to make in a large lab. Even in the popular fiction Breaking Bad; the process Walt uses in the superlab under the laundromat is a P2P reaction. Despite many inaccuracies or improbabilities in the show they do get this right.

In fact it is true that the Sinaloa Cartel in Mexico which sources almost all street meth for the United States alternates between a handful of reactions to make meth from P2P. "So hold on Dan!" You say while inserting a fat shard into your asshole with your Cheetah covered nubbins "then almost all the meth in the lower 48 is racemic!" No, you beautiful sweet stupid bastard. And I'll explain why.

Reductive Amination

The two most popular routes to make meth out of P2P are called Leuckhart and reductive amination. Leuckhart fell out of style, and generally you would choose reductive amination as your synthesis route because it's easy to get a high yield, relatively danger free, and the materials involved are painlessly easy to aquire for a consumer. This method was the one Walter White used to make his blue meth.

The process simply boils all the reagents together in one "pot", and the methamphetamine condenses from steam as the ketone and amine (P2P and methylamine typically) trade atoms. None of the chemicals are at a big risk of explosion or emitting deadly fumes, and as long as you can set a temperature on a burner, you really can't "overcook" or "undercook" the product by getting your measurements wrong or not watching the time. On paper the reaction looks much more complex and dorky than some of the popular PSE reductions, but anybody even moderately dedicated enough to purchase proper glassware and make the starting materials can pull it off anywhere with a heat source. In fact: THIS METHOD IS VERY POPULAR WITH INDIVIDUALLY OPERATING "COOKS". It isn't just the cartel who likes reductive amination.

But the product only contains 50% of the desired chemical still. And when competing with Billy Bob living in a Unibomber shed in the woods shaking up soda bottle bombs of PSE, you need a more powerful product than that.

Luckily since man began cooking up fat shards in the basement, optical resolution has existed. Yes, it's simple and cheap for anyone be it the cartel or grandma, to remove L-meth from a racemic product and be left only with d-meth. "WHAT?" You scream, both from the sweet sharp burn of your tight butthole flesh dissolving a point fiver of dirty crystal and in shock "but I thought it was like a super complicated procedure and a tight lipped secret?" No. Actually a liquid chemical called L-taurtaric acid is able to be simply poured over your racemic meth, and it dissolves and washed away only the L-meth and leaves behind only the D-meth.

But you do need to have high ranking laboratory and academic credentials to purchase L-taurtaric acid. Just kidding it's used in wine making and you can buy in cheaply online or in any high end liquor store anywhere. This procedure has been used forever, there's even an Erwoid article describing it from like the 1990s. Yes, you do waste half of the product you made but because of how cheap, easy, and consistently high yielding reductive amination is YOU LIKELY STILL WILL HAVE MORE, CLEANER, AND HIGHER QUALITY PRODUCT MADE IN A SHORTER SPAN OF TIME THAN PSE, EVEN WHEN THROWING HALF OUT.

I could go on about how there are various ways to convert the "wasted" l-meth back into a racemate and then do the process over and over again until you have all d-meth and waste 0 L-meth but that process is actually a bit more complex and expensive unless you're the cartel and can make meth by the tons. Oh but wait, there's a dumb as rocks easy method to convert L-meth into P2P and you can just use it again to make more meth so basically there's no reason you'd even be wasting anything at all.

In fact, for any chemist serious about making methamphetamine for the black market there's basically no reason at all to even consider using PSE. Reductive amination, resolving the product, and recycling the l-meth back into P2P is a money printing factory.

While meth makers and users are famously stereotyped for their honesty, virtues, and high standards of customer service, we have to assume there's at least one or two bad apples out there. What if a chemist makes meth from P2P and simply leaves the product racemic to save time and money, essentially selling a product that's pre-cut with L-meth and low quality in order to get more cash? Sounds unlike the peace loving and good hearted nature of stimulant users and dealers but suspend your disbelief and entertain this possibility for a minute.

There's no evidence what so ever that racemic meth is less potent in it's desirable high than D-meth, and there's no evidence whatsoever that it produces greater negative side effects than d-meth.

There is actually evidence though that racemic meths melting point is absurdly lower than the melting point of d-meth, and that forming shard like crystals from a racemate is insanely difficult and only a fine grained powder is achievable realistically.


The Truth about the Isomers


Without getting into insane detail here, most of the common street knowledge on meths isomers is entirely wrong. It's easy to understand why as I described early in the essay why at first glance one would think a racemate is only 50% as pleasurable as pure d-meth at best, shit I never even gave it much thought to research when writing my book initially. It was only after I tried a racemic product and a pure product back to back that I noticed "huh. These feel literally exactly the same."

There are a handful of animal studies that support the notion that racemic meth is weaker or unpleasant. But animal studies quite often don't reflect human reactions. There is only one single study I've found after days and days of researching this question that puts the effects of d-meth pure, l-meth pure, and racemic meth to comparison in humans. And this is what it found:

L-meth administered alone produced a pleasant high that was very short lived, followed by a long period of peripheral stimulation. The total effects of l-meth lasted the longest amount of time. WHEN HEART RATE AND BLOOD PRESSURE WERE MEASURED L-METH RESULTED IN THE SMALLEST CHANGE OF ALL THREE. IT HAD THE LEAST NEGATIVE PERIPHERAL NERVOUS SYSTEM IMPACT.

Racemic meth and d-meth were reported by subjects to feel EXACTLY THE SAME. The pleasurable effects, residual effects, peripheral effects and duration all were THE SAME. Blood pressure and heart rate readings were IDENTICAL TO D-METH. Essentially someone given a racemic product would be getting the exact same results as a pure d-meth product.

So d-meth alone had the worst side effects, the heaviest body load, and the shortest duration of effects. But if it's so heavy on dopamine, why?

It's pretty much exactly as potent at releasing norepinephrine as l-meth for one. It's not a simple matter of "d-meth is all dopamine no adrenaline, and l-meth is all adrenaline no dopamine". Beyond that, dopamine isn't as simple as people tend to treat it, and PLEASURE IS NOT CAUSED BY DOPAMINE. In fact ADRENALINE is more likely to induce euphoria than dopamine, and is responsible for the rush meth users tend to chase.

At high recreational doses, it doesn't matter whether it's d-meth or racemic YOU'RE MAXING OUT YOUR DOPAMINE AND ADRENALINE EITHER WAY. If a one product has the potential to release 200% of dopamine, and another only has the potential to release 125% of dopamine then YOU STILL ARE HAVING 100% OF YOUR DOPAMINE RELEASED. THE EXTRA POTENTIALL 100% OR 25% IS MEANINGLESS.


Besides, a smoker would notice immediately if their product was racemic as it would be sold as a fine powder only which is rather uncommon most places, and the melting point of racemic meth is 130 degrees rather than 175 degrees which any seasoned smoker would instantly notice. That's a MASSIVE difference



So then. Why does the meth from some bags make you feel like shit and some doesn't? Well, it's because your dealer put doo doo and piss and cum into it because it's a street drug. From the street. So it's dirty and yucky you spoon. Also meth makes you feel like shit.


Thank you for your time
 
Theres also a somewhat more recent method that's been discussed in literature from the United Nations which forces P2P into an optical stance, thus when the reaction occurs the product is already entirely dextromethamphetamine without having to resolve or recycle anything. I'm not sure how complex this process is, but there's evidence it does see use in Southeast Asia although Myanmar has recently converted their entire operation into a growing in popularity Emde reduction of PSE, a process that leaves behind almost 0 waste and 0 synthesis byproducts and can be scaled up. It's a fascinating development I'm happy to discuss privately with anyone interested academically
 
Absolutely hilarious how you have this long essay that, while humorous, is pretty in-depth and academic, and then it's finished off with a quick, "your meth makes you feel like shit because it's full of poopoo and hard drugs obviously make you feel like shit, you fucking idiot. Kthanksbye." Lmfao.

Thanks for the information. I'll need to do my own research into this but it's fascinating. I'd have something more intelligent to say but I just woke up and need more meth.
 
Absolutely hilarious how you have this long essay that, while humorous, is pretty in-depth and academic, and then it's finished off with a quick, "your meth makes you feel like shit because it's full of poopoo and hard drugs obviously make you feel like shit, you fucking idiot. Kthanksbye." Lmfao.

Thanks for the information. I'll need to do my own research into this but it's fascinating. I'd have something more intelligent to say but I just woke up and need more meth.
I'm trying to resist the urge to pick up some meth, like a sailor restless in the night hearing the call of his mistress; the sea.

My DXM regimen helped a lot with the withdrawal and cravings but some still sneak in during triggering moments. Take an extra hit for your boy
 
Absolutely hilarious how you have this long essay that, while humorous, is pretty in-depth and academic, and then it's finished off with a quick, "your meth makes you feel like shit because it's full of poopoo and hard drugs obviously make you feel like shit, you fucking idiot. Kthanksbye." Lmfao.

Thanks for the information. I'll need to do my own research into this but it's fascinating. I'd have something more intelligent to say but I just woke up and need more meth.
Thanks I intended it to be read in a tone similar to this

 
Get the difference bit now, there are i think way less dl-Amphetamine addicts/ in context daily or feinding.
In the morning @MSTwitch_666 .
Then dl-Methamphetamine users, there is only one person i know that reacts to Speed like you do to Meth.

Dextro-Amphetamine is even weaker, i wouldn t even call it a recreative drug just a wake up [oral low doses].
Others will disagree, but i have ADHD. Also no noticable signs of dependence or WD went stopped.
Concerning Amphetamine vs the stories i read about Meth.

Btw i once extracted it, dextro-Amphetamine, and even then its no match to racemic.
Then again l-Amphetamine is active unlike the minor effects of l-Meth.
 
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It’s weird how rscemste is supposedly less recreational because of the presence of l meth; yet when you talk to people that used to do meth 30 years ago when it was racemic; they always say that p2p (racemic) meth was better than todays D meth.
 
I must admit that this was the information I been wanting to hear but at the same time I failed science so as impressive as your obvious abundance of knowledge shown here thru your essay I have no clue what actually it means . I recognize some of the words and ideas but actually the processes and chemistry I won’t frontlike I understand. I will say this , you’re the first one to say the opposite. A couple guys I follow who seem to share similar knowledge on this propose that it’s L meth , and cheaper to make , and the reasoning is besides $ is fuck it fiends are buying it so why spend more $ and time for D meth . What my experience is currently, is what causing me to research and ask questions. Around September my stuff has taken a turn for the worse. Although the last couple weeks it’s gotten better but not much. Looks the same as it always has , but like it don’t get me where I wanna be . Lacking euphoria , porn is like eh , nut is eh, concentration is eh , I get super hungry , and I don’t feel crazy but I’ll stay awake but park my ass In the chair without all the glory and fun it had held once . Last thing you make a good sales pitch for the sinola guys to convince the market that it’s not the big guys but the guys we get it directly from messing with it . Don’t believe the avg street connect knows how, it’s not easy like cooking crack , this a science . God bless brother thank you again 🙏
 
It’s weird how rscemste is supposedly less recreational because of the presence of l meth; yet when you talk to people that used to do meth 30 years ago when it was racemic; they always say that p2p (racemic) meth was better than todays D meth.
I started using racemic MA in 1989 and one could easily stay up with no sleep, no naps or microsleeps whatsoever for 2+ weeks, no exaggeration. I remember when ice made its debut in Texas around 2000-2001, my girlfriend @tt and I stayed up for 10 days on .75g, and we shared some of that with friends. To think that someone (even a new-bee) could have a similar experience using today's gear is absurd.
 
I started using racemic MA in 1989 and one could easily stay up with no sleep, no naps or microsleeps whatsoever for 2+ weeks, no exaggeration. I remember when ice made its debut in Texas around 2000-2001, my girlfriend @tt and I stayed up for 10 days on .75g, and we shared some of that with friends. To think that someone (even a new-bee) could have a similar experience using today's gear is absurd.
Todays gear isn’t even meth mostly though is the reason for that right?

Most Meth users I meet today don’t even get dilated pupils. I don’t know what the fuck they are using but if your pupils never get big it can’t be meth right? in contrast when ppl use mdma today its often real and blows up their pupils

Probably some shitty bath salt.
 
That was a great read my dude.
I felt really called out when you described the reader putting a meth shard into their ass, just while I was shoving the 3-FMA filled syringe into my rectum!

Stimulants are a net positive for humanity - if only for enabling texts like these being published.
 
Todays gear isn’t even meth mostly though is the reason for that right?

Most Meth users I meet today don’t even get dilated pupils. I don’t know what the fuck they are using but if your pupils never get big it can’t be meth right? in contrast when ppl use mdma today its often real and blows up their pupils

Probably some shitty bath salt.
According to the DEA, it's meth and the best it's ever been, lol.

My pupils stopped dilating from using it years ago. I never run into any newbees so I don't know if their pupils dilate or not but I would love to know.
 
According to the DEA, it's meth and the best it's ever been, lol.

My pupils stopped dilating from using it years ago. I never run into any newbees so I don't know if their pupils dilate or not but I would love to know.
According to the DEA they need more tax dollars to fight this super meth (they’ll actually make drug use more rampant and worse on purpose and secretly assist the cartel so that they can point to the problem and say “see how bad it is” give us more money so we can fix it)

Hmm so your pupils stop dilating after using for a long while even though the gear is good?

Interesting to know.
 
According to the DEA, it's meth and the best it's ever been, lol.

My pupils stopped dilating from using it years ago. I never run into any newbees so I don't know if their pupils dilate or not but I would love to know.
the dea says that yes , but than Wikipedia says N iso is real deal . I hear a lot of conflicting information . Don’t know what to believe, but I know that the bag is fucked up. Same store for years now bht the product isn’t getting me anywhere near the high I want . Looks fine as it always had but no sweating , no lockjaw, no boner, appetite , and parked in my chair . Weak
 
Neither meth or MDMA make my pupils dilate any more. 20 years ago I would party on a Saturday night and still be diluted for Sunday dinner with my parents.
 
According to the DEA they need more tax dollars to fight this super meth (they’ll actually make drug use more rampant and worse on purpose and secretly assist the cartel so that they can point to the problem and say “see how bad it is” give us more money so we can fix it)

Hmm so your pupils stop dilating after using for a long while even though the gear is good?

Interesting to know.
Yeah, it's steadily gotten better and cheaper since the plandemic. Almost every batch is better than the previous, at least in my perception of it and costs the same or less each time.
 
the dea says that yes , but than Wikipedia says N iso is real deal . I hear a lot of conflicting information . Don’t know what to believe, but I know that the bag is fucked up. Same store for years now bht the product isn’t getting me anywhere near the high I want . Looks fine as it always had but no sweating , no lockjaw, no boner, appetite , and parked in my chair . Weak
I believe N-IPBA has been used to form co-crystals with racemic MA extensively by many manufacturing groups throughout Mexico but its use has seen a sharp decline recently, which I attribute to the knowledge and relative techniques required to resolve racemic MA for d-MA becoming more widespread amongst those groups. It's been quite a while since I've woken up to the sound of my bowl hitting the floor because fell asleep while smoking or had to chase any nasty dark brown puddles that run from the heat, up the side of the damn bowl.
 
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