Kratom Your usual kratom taper (and maybe NON prescription drugs for WD?)

[Mycophile]

Hey,

So, I'm not even using Kratom read night, but I sometimes do and then end up getting dependent, which I really don't like because even though it doesn't last long I'll be completely useless for 3 full days afterwards. I mean I'll just be sleeping non-stop like 14 hours a day for those 3 days, and when I am awake I don't have the energy to work or do anything, and for this reason i rarely take Kratom, because i find i only need to take it 3-4 days in a row to get withdrawal.

When I do take Kratom though, I usually will only take like 2 doses a day at about 2.5 grams. So, lets say, for the sake of argument, that I took 2 doses a day of 2.5 grams for anywhere from 5-7 days in a row, and wanted to taper off: what would your taper look like?

Would you like, maybe for 2 days take 2-1 gram doses, then maybe like another 2 take 0.50, then down to 0.25, or what?

I'm just wondering for if I ever get dependent again and need to taper off and still be productive enough while getting off it so I can still work.

I never even tried tapering before cause i never had a bad habit, I just went cold turkey every time.

Also, does anyone know of any NON PRESCRIPTION or easily available drugs that help with Kratom withdrawal?

I take Klonopin and it helps a little, but not enough.

Thanks

 

[Lil'LinaptkSix]

Tapering kratom is the easiest thing (i think) to accomplish.
Cut the current dose in half and I bet you notice very little.
I quit kratom by this method but ya half to be vigilent about it. Keep halving until a week of .5g and drop it.
This may not work for everyone but it may for you, idk.
best of luck.

 

[Mycophile]

Tapering kratom is the easiest thing (i think) to accomplish.
Cut the current dose in half and I bet you notice very little.
I quit kratom by this method but ya half to be vigilent about it. Keep halving until a week of .5g and drop it.
This may not work for everyone but it may for you, idk.
best of luck.

So like, if your dose was 2.5, then how many days would you to 1.25 for, then how much down from there and for how long, at least in your personal opinion if you were doing it?

I would want to do it faster rather than more slowly as I would maybe give in to taking full doses, but obviously the goal is to not feel much WD when you stop.

And this is just theoretical, cause I'm not even using Kratom right now, but just for future purposes.

 

[Lil'LinaptkSix]

if your dose was 2.5, then how many days would you to 1.25 for, then how much down from there and for how long

I usually go a week at each drop. I find that after a few days that nice feeling comes back from the half-dose. Drop it to a gram for a week. Then half g for a week or until out.
Can you refresh my memory of why you use kratom? Is it a "getaway" or break or is it used to self medicate?
Sorry my brain is slowing down thank god.
Im in my fifth year with kraton and dropping it now. Trying to stop poly-drug use and stick with one thing if it works myself.
I find kratom at lower doses is sooooo forgiving. Please stay there cause at high doses my friends are suffering.

ed
oh and i have stopped maybe 5 times for some reason or other... prolly $

 

[Mycophile]

I usually go a week at each drop. I find that after a few days that nice feeling comes back from the half-dose. Drop it to a gram for a week. Then half g for a week or until out.
Can you refresh my memory of why you use kratom? Is it a "getaway" or break or is it used to self medicate?
Sorry my brain is slowing down thank god.
Im in my fifth year with kraton and dropping it now. Trying to stop poly-drug use and stick with one thing if it works myself.
I find kratom at lower doses is sooooo forgiving. Please stay there cause at high doses my friends are suffering.

ed
oh and i have stopped maybe 5 times for some reason or other... prolly $

Honestly i don't even use it now.

I like the way it feels and it's great for my anxiety and depression, so yes it's kind of a "getaway" but I am always afraid of being dependent as whenever I have gotten dependent it takes 3 days of non-stop sleeping to break through the WD. It's not like serious like other opioids, but it's enough that I can't work those days, which makes me not want to use it.

So I want to be know how to taper effectively for if I ever get dependent again.

The way you are tapering is more slowly than I'd prefer, and keep in mind that even when i do use I don't use it more than like 5-7 days in a row so I wouldn't have that kind of MAJOR dependency.

If I ever do get even mildly dependent again I would hope to be off it in a week or less, and I would think that probably would be possible going from the amounts and frequency I would use.

 

[Lil'LinaptkSix]

after a few days that nice feeling comes back from the half-dose

The way you are tapering is more slowly than I'd prefer

I was feeling that once that "ffeel good" comes back after a coupla few days its probably time to drop again anyway. I just like it slow and easy, ya know? Had my times with sudden cessations no mo. lol
Maybe someone can chime in with some personal anecdotes and/experiene(s) to broaden the field.

 

[Neuroborean]

Hey,

So, I'm not even using Kratom read night, but I sometimes do and then end up getting dependent, which I really don't like because even though it doesn't last long I'll be completely useless for 3 full days afterwards. I mean I'll just be sleeping non-stop like 14 hours a day for those 3 days, and when I am awake I don't have the energy to work or do anything, and for this reason i rarely take Kratom, because i find i only need to take it 3-4 days in a row to get withdrawal.

When I do take Kratom though, I usually will only take like 2 doses a day at about 2.5 grams. So, lets say, for the sake of argument, that I took 2 doses a day of 2.5 grams for anywhere from 5-7 days in a row, and wanted to taper off: what would your taper look like?

Would you like, maybe for 2 days take 2-1 gram doses, then maybe like another 2 take 0.50, then down to 0.25, or what?

I'm just wondering for if I ever get dependent again and need to taper off and still be productive enough while getting off it so I can still work.

I never even tried tapering before cause i never had a bad habit, I just went cold turkey every time.

Also, does anyone know of any NON PRESCRIPTION or easily available drugs that help with Kratom withdrawal?

I take Klonopin and it helps a little, but not enough.

Thanks

Honestly I think your case is quite strange.
Obviously not saying is not the case, I do believe you and I'm talking considering it is...
but, it's better to start also recognizing that is quite odd (non-typical) to have 3 days of withdrawal and hard fatigue when you use 3-4 days of 5 grams a day...

Ok, now let's go to the "solutions".
you want to taper fast... or you want something that makes the withdrawal more tolerable.
I think you can taper 0.5grams each day, I do it that way and it works, so you can jump from 2 grams instead of 5.
It would be like this:

Day 1: 4.5
Day 2: 4
..Day 6: 2
Day 7: Jump off.
What would happen then is that you would need to use an entire week (more) to cut back and you normally you don't use it that long? ummm.. maybe try 0.7-0.8 a day, is perfectly doable.

Another tricks are:
Agmatine (never tried but heard veeeery good things, doesn't require prescription in USA (afaik). To help tolerance and to help tapering.
Black seed oil: this is soooo good. I woke up so fucking nervous today, on light withdrawal because I needed to up the dosage of kratom during covid "attack"... wow, in less than an hour I was sleeping like a kid again, having good dreams and then woke up without any hurry to take my dose. It can almost eliminate the worst physical WD symptoms (but WON'T give you any motivation, that's the BAD thing about BSO, ah, it's also kinda expensive....).
Mucuna pruriens: this WILL get you motivated, no matter how fucked you are, if you take the right amount of extract, it's a short-term solution but it's a potent solution, at least for those who fit with the plant (most people fit).
DHEA: heard great things about restoring hormones and drive during kratom WD.
Ashwagandha: interesting plant, could be activating for some (specially those with fucked up adrenals, and specially if capsules/extracts are used) and sedating/relaxing for others. I do use powder that is less reliable in potency but much more versatile once you find the way.
Yohimbe: pure potency, energy, and motivation all in one, if you don't have problems with cardiovascular sides and anxiety while kratom withdrawing, this is the plant, IN LOW DOSES and in BARK TEA FORM.
Kola nut: much more cool than coffee in terms of effects profile.

 

[Mycophile]

Honestly I think your case is quite strange.
Obviously not saying is not the case, I do believe you and I'm talking considering it is...
but, it's better to start also recognizing that is quite odd (non-typical) to have 3 days of withdrawal and hard fatigue when you use 3-4 days of 5 grams a day...

Ok, now let's go to the "solutions".
you want to taper fast... or you want something that makes the withdrawal more tolerable.
I think you can taper 0.5grams each day, I do it that way and it works, so you can jump from 2 grams instead of 5.
It would be like this:

Day 1: 4.5
Day 2: 4
..Day 6: 2
Day 7: Jump off.
What would happen then is that you would need to use an entire week (more) to cut back and you normally you don't use it that long? ummm.. maybe try 0.7-0.8 a day, is perfectly doable.

Another tricks are:
Agmatine (never tried but heard veeeery good things, doesn't require prescription in USA (afaik). To help tolerance and to help tapering.
Black seed oil: this is soooo good. I woke up so fucking nervous today, on light withdrawal because I needed to up the dosage of kratom during covid "attack"... wow, in less than an hour I was sleeping like a kid again, having good dreams and then woke up without any hurry to take my dose. It can almost eliminate the worst physical WD symptoms (but WON'T give you any motivation, that's the BAD thing about BSO, ah, it's also kinda expensive....).
Mucuna pruriens: this WILL get you motivated, no matter how fucked you are, if you take the right amount of extract, it's a short-term solution but it's a potent solution, at least for those who fit with the plant (most people fit).
DHEA: heard great things about restoring hormones and drive during kratom WD.
Ashwagandha: interesting plant, could be activating for some (specially those with fucked up adrenals, and specially if capsules/extracts are used) and sedating/relaxing for others. I do use powder that is less reliable in potency but much more versatile once you find the way.
Yohimbe: pure potency, energy, and motivation all in one, if you don't have problems with cardiovascular sides and anxiety while kratom withdrawing, this is the plant, IN LOW DOSES and in BARK TEA FORM.
Kola nut: much more cool than coffee in terms of effects profile.

Well I've always been sensitive to Kratom I guess. How bad the 3 days will be depends on how many days I use in a row and how many doses per day and how large they are and all that. Last time it wasn't super bad, but I still didn't have much energy, but if I dose twice a day at 2.5 grams each, or even 2 grams each, for like 5 days, then yes, I will get some wd for 3 days.

The worst WDs I got were really back when my doses were upwards of 6 or 7 grams per dose, and once years ago I was taking 14 gram doses, but even small doses will get me some WD if I use for 3 or more days in a row of 2 or more doses per day.

But your taper was based on doses of 5 grams, and I said that each dose would be no higher than 2.5 grams, so could you please tell me what your taper would be for each individual dose, meaning like dose 1 you'd have be 1.75 grams or whatever, and then the 2nd dose would be the same?

Cause I don't want to think of it as like how many grams in the entire day, but how many grams per dose, and I'd probably be dosing twice a day.

Some of those potentiators/WD helpers sound promising. I didn't get agmatine to work for me as a potentiator or for WD, but not sure about the others.

I can't take Yohimbe as I'm on Prozac which is an SSRI and that's an MAOI so that could be bad. Never tried the others, but the Black Seed Oil, Mucuna Pruriens and DHEA in particular sound very promising.

Are any of them MAOIs? If so I need to be careful. I know ashwaganda is a mild one, but I might be able to get away with a little, but the few times I tried it it didn't do muh.

 

[Lil'LinaptkSix]

Sounds like kindling?
Could be a thing with kratom, idk, yet.

Ed
I can get some fucked up wds from 3 days use of opioids easily.

 

[Neuroborean]

But your taper was based on doses of 5 grams, and I said that each dose would be no higher than 2.5 grams, so could you please tell me what your taper would be for each individual dose, meaning like dose 1 you'd have be 1.75 grams or whatever, and then the 2nd dose would be the same?

no, my taper was based in x amount a day.
I wasn't counting the amount per dose, but how much do you take each day.
I think it totally depends on you what to do with the doses, because it's more a subjective feeling of unpleasantness or pleasantness
What I can tell you for sure is that you DON'T want to cut down the night dose as soon as the early day ones
so I mean
if you take 5 grams a day and you want to cut 0.6 in a day...
is better not to do First dose 2.3 and 2nd dose 2.1 but more logically 1st dose 2.1 and 2nd dose 2.3 or 1st and 2nd 2.2. Got me?
It's better to cut the early dose because once you start dealing with insomnia all starts going downhill till you surpass the wd.
For the same reason I would use only night doses for some days: 2 grams, 2 grams, 2 grams, 3 days in a row and only at night.

ashwagandha doesn't do much if you take little doses, I can tell you that if you find good quality root (look in etsy for real indian ayurvedic sellers) and you use 3-5 grams you'll clearly notice benefits.

nah, none of those is a MAOI but honestly yohimbe is a maoi so weak that it's probably negligible at a pharmacological level.

 

[Lil'LinaptkSix]

honestly i feel if one can quit at doses 10g or lower there will be a few days of feeling off. i just taper cause i find it easier on my mental state thes days. just me.
we can drop many other that knatom and still survive (most).
no problems, imo/e
much love

 

[plumbus-nine]

Yeah, did around 5-15g/d for most days during half a year and quit without tapering, first I was scared but all I got was two days of feeling a little off and nervous. High dosages might well be different.

For OTC drugs which help with opioid withdrawal there's DXM, never tried it for this reason but other drugs of the same category (dissociatives) do help well with opioid withdrawal and memantine even saved my ass when quitting morphine. Unfortunately most do require Rx or need to be ordered from India but read that DXM can as well do the trick if you don't mind some weird trip for a few days. Will also help with lethargy/post acute withdrawal.

 

[Snafu in the Void]

@Mycophile to me it sounds like you are describing some other rebound effect, but not kratom withdrawal in a literal sense. Sleeping 14 hr/day sounds like a blessing to me, during kratom withdrawal I'm lucky if I get 30 min of sleep.

You may be experiencing some sort of serotonergic or adrenal rebound effect if you are also on an SSRI. Idk...

ashwagandha doesn't do much if you take little doses, I can tell you that if you find good quality root (look in etsy for real indian ayurvedic sellers) and you use 3-5 grams you'll clearly notice benefits.

3-5g??

I felt very noticeable effects from 600-900mg of KSM-66 ashwagandha. Taking that dose for 2 months daily also seriously fucked up my brain, and coming off that dose was significantly worse than SSRI withdrawal. That dose sounds crazy to me.

I actively avoid ashwagandha now due to the fucked up things it did to my brain. I think it's more dangerous than people think.

 

[plumbus-nine]

3-5g??

I felt very noticeable effects from 600-900mg of KSM-66 ashwagandha. Taking that dose for 2 months daily also seriously fucked up my brain, and coming off that dose was significantly worse than SSRI withdrawal. That dose sounds crazy to me.

Oh, ashwagandha. I got a 100g bag of it for cheap (so it might be low quality) and even grams of it did little besides making me feel weirdly depressed or did nothing at all. I wonder if I should give it a second try, reading that it was a GABAergic sounded promising.

 

[Neuroborean]

I felt very noticeable effects from 600-900mg of KSM-66 ashwagandha.

I'm not talking about extracts, I'm talking about plain root powder and ayurvedic doses.

 

[Snafu in the Void]

Oh, ashwagandha. I got a 100g bag of it for cheap (so it might be low quality) and even grams of it did little besides making me feel weirdly depressed or did nothing at all. I wonder if I should give it a second try, reading that it was a GABAergic sounded promising.

it's not something you can really get high from, but I certainly felt a decrease in anxiety/stress and often felt very drowsy for 2-3 hours after dosing, this effect became stronger over time due to it's pharmacology

but it ended up causing some very unwanted changes in my brain chemistry, combined with the other drugs I was doing (mostly kratom/alcohol/cannabinoids) it led to 2 hospital visits and repeated serotonin syndrome

ashwagandha has fat soluble alkaloids which build up in your brain and caused fucked up shit to happen...... at least in my case

it also potentiates benzos in my anecdotal experience

 

[Mycophile]

@Mycophile to me it sounds like you are describing some other rebound effect, but not kratom withdrawal in a literal sense. Sleeping 14 hr/day sounds like a blessing to me, during kratom withdrawal I'm lucky if I get 30 min of sleep.

You may be experiencing some sort of serotonergic or adrenal rebound effect if you are also on an SSRI. Idk...


3-5g??

I felt very noticeable effects from 600-900mg of KSM-66 ashwagandha. Taking that dose for 2 months daily also seriously fucked up my brain, and coming off that dose was significantly worse than SSRI withdrawal. That dose sounds crazy to me.

I actively avoid ashwagandha now due to the fucked up things it did to my brain. I think it's more dangerous than people think.

No, even though this isn't happening to me now, I have taken and been dependent on kratom more times than I can count, and the withdrawal is always the same.

It always lasts 3 days, but sometimes it's more severe than others. Could it relate to my SSRIs as well? I don't know, but I need those and take them every day, so it doesn't matter one way or another whether or not it would happen if I was off of SSRIs.

And trust me, it's NOT a blessing to sleep 14 hours a day and have no energy when you have work to do. It sucks shit. Now, that only happens if I am dosing at like 7 or more grams, 2-3 times a day for a week or more. If it's less than that, I won't be sleeping 14 hours a day, but I would be sleeping about 12 and having significantly less energy and motivation to get things done for 3 days till it leaves my system.

I find it a bit annoying that you are trying to tell me that what I've experienced isn't kratom WD, but you're wrong. It is. Whether or not SSRIs are a factor or it's something else TECHNICALLY speaking I don't know, and I don't care. I just know it happens, and so I started the thread to see how to prevent it from happening next time.

 

[Mycophile]

Yeah, did around 5-15g/d for most days during half a year and quit without tapering, first I was scared but all I got was two days of feeling a little off and nervous. High dosages might well be different.

For OTC drugs which help with opioid withdrawal there's DXM, never tried it for this reason but other drugs of the same category (dissociatives) do help well with opioid withdrawal and memantine even saved my ass when quitting morphine. Unfortunately most do require Rx or need to be ordered from India but read that DXM can as well do the trick if you don't mind some weird trip for a few days. Will also help with lethargy/post acute withdrawal.

I take SSRIs so I can't take DXM.

Anyways, this is all just speculative for if I ever get dependent on kratom again.

I could probably figure out a taper myself, and see what worked, or ask again if it was actually happening, but i just don't like those 3 days of feeling off and less productive.

 

[Neuroborean]

Man, do what I told you, it's easy, and it works.

once you sustain yourself with 2grams a day doses at night the next days will be soft, if you have the products I said, they work, specially mucuna and black seed oil.

ashwagandha has fat soluble alkaloids which build up in your brain and caused fucked up shit to happen...... at least in my case

really?
that sounds pretty crappy, what happened to you exactly?

 

[Mycophile]

no, my taper was based in x amount a day.
I wasn't counting the amount per dose, but how much do you take each day.
I think it totally depends on you what to do with the doses, because it's more a subjective feeling of unpleasantness or pleasantness
What I can tell you for sure is that you DON'T want to cut down the night dose as soon as the early day ones
so I mean
if you take 5 grams a day and you want to cut 0.6 in a day...
is better not to do First dose 2.3 and 2nd dose 2.1 but more logically 1st dose 2.1 and 2nd dose 2.3 or 1st and 2nd 2.2. Got me?
It's better to cut the early dose because once you start dealing with insomnia all starts going downhill till you surpass the wd.
For the same reason I would use only night doses for some days: 2 grams, 2 grams, 2 grams, 3 days in a row and only at night.

ashwagandha doesn't do much if you take little doses, I can tell you that if you find good quality root (look in etsy for real indian ayurvedic sellers) and you use 3-5 grams you'll clearly notice benefits.

nah, none of those is a MAOI but honestly yohimbe is a maoi so weak that it's probably negligible at a pharmacological level.

I just saved this on a word document but I think I just can't concentrate right now to understand what you are saying lol.

Maybe those products alone would be enough? Or I could just go based on feel and probably figure it out myself.

This isn't happening now anyway, so I could come back another time.

But as far as insomnia, that doesn't happen to me. Not sure if you know this, but some people get HYPERSOMNIA INSTEAD of insomnia as a WD effect, and that's what happens to me.

I don't take Kratom at night as if I have even taken a dose that has WORN OFF less than 6 hours before bed I can't fall asleep. I don't understand how anyone sleeps on kratom, and when I'm in withdrawal I can't stop sleeping, but that's more if I have been dosing very frequently. If less frequently, I just have less energy.

Do any of those products by themselves even without much of a taper eliminate WD?