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Xenon vs Nitrous Oxide

copium7777 said:
Well theres no evidence that xenon does deplete b12 , and i believe that not all nmda antagonists deplete b12 , so it must be something specific to nitrous oxides pharmacology.
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Vitamin b12 uses a cobalt molecule to perform methylation reactions. These require the cobalt to oxidize and reduce (something metals are great at). Nitrous oxide(NOO)actually doesn't do anything to b12, but it spontaneously breaks down to nitric oxide (NO·), which forms a pretty much (for the context of a biological system) irreversible bond with the cobalt, locking it's oxidation state.

A similar process is carbon monoxide (CO) binding to iron in hemeglobin.
 
Does anybody have any literature about toxicity / lack of toxicity of xenon?

I understand that it increases epo via hif1a, but i infer that is more infrequent dosing. If this effect does not plateau, i would be cautious about binging in the same way that one would with nitrous oxide.

I do on the other hand believe that xenon isn't interacting with metals or cystienes or the like being of nobility and all.
 
Skorpio said:
I understand that it increases epo via hif1a, but i infer that is more infrequent dosing. If this effect does not plateau, i would be cautious about binging in the same way that one would with nitrous oxide.
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You mean bc of hypoxia? Anyway even my regular "" use is tamer than most whipits users. Might max out at 100L/two weeks, basically like 100 balloons, but more likely will stretch it longer.

Like I said earlier it's been around long enough one would expect toxic effects to show up even if used less than nitrous. The fact that it actively protects against ischemic injury/stroke brain, and protects against neurotoxicity caused by k or nitrous, is p
 
copium7777 said:
You mean bc of hypoxia? Anyway even my regular "" use is tamer than most whipits users. Might max out at 100L/two weeks, basically like 100 balloons, but more likely will stretch it longer.

Like I said earlier it's been around long enough one would expect toxic effects to show up even if used less than nitrous. The fact that it actively protects against ischemic injury/stroke brain, and protects against neurotoxicity caused by k or nitrous, is p
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I don't mean hypoxia, just consequences from regular high dose use. The b12 effects of nitrous are one example, but possibly a certain ion channel being blocked could cause long term negative effects. I am just trying to be conservative and question xenon as much as any new drug should have suspicion aimed at it.


But all dissos prevent against that. It just means they reduce calcium release, which most dissos block NMDA or activate GABA or some combo. Doesn't mean it's good really. What source do you have that it protects against K or nitrous? If true, that is extremely interesting.
 
Is there any issues getting xenon gas of you usually can buy tanks of nitrous?

Maybe its different from country to country.
But i have a nitrous tank source, i wonder IF they can be used for xenon aswell.
 
Ether is basically a more volatile version of ethyl Alcohol. You wouldn’t recommend chloroform it’s dusting. Toluenes not funny.
 
ions said:
Ether is basically a more volatile version of ethyl Alcohol. You wouldn’t recommend chloroform it’s dusting. Toluenes not funny.
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What do you mean? Toluene is the best drug ever. I recommend at least five liters per day. Can hardly think of a superior way to commit suicide.
 
Skorpio said:
But all dissos prevent against that. It just means they reduce calcium release, which most dissos block NMDA or activate GABA or some combo. Doesn't mean it's good really. What source do you have that it protects against K or nitrous? If true, that is extremely interesting.
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I would link this but it's right in the wikipedia page, under applications section where it discussed medical applications, and am tired now. It protects against both nitrous and ketamine induced neurotoxicity thate notable. By contrast, nitrous enhanced ketamine neurotoxicity
Skorpio said:
don't mean hypoxia, just consequences from regular high dose use. The b12 effects of nitrous are one example, but possibly a certain ion channel being blocked could cause long term negative effects. I am just trying to be conservative and question xenon as much as any new drug should have suspicion aimed at it.
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Being conservative is a good idea. At first this gave me pause but it seems like the main issues from nitrous is the b12 depletion. that's specific to its molecular structure and doesmt exist with xenon. As far as the whole rebound excitotoxicity thing or the other neurotoxicity from that class of drugs, its mild to start with so even if xenon somehow had regular neurotoxicity like ketamine, I wouldn't be too worried. And I dont think it does, I do believe it's a better drug than ketamine. I'm just saying , if it did.
 
copium7777 said:
I would link this but it's right in the wikipedia page, under applications section where it discussed medical applications, and am tired now. It protects against both nitrous and ketamine induced neurotoxicity thate notable. By contrast, nitrous enhanced ketamine neurotoxicity
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@Skorpio here ya go
Xenon interacts with many different receptors and ion channels, and like many theoretically multi-modal inhalation anesthetics, these interactions are likely complementary. Xenon is a high-affinity glycine-site NMDA receptor antagonist.[138] However, xenon is different from certain other NMDA receptor antagonists in that it is not neurotoxic and it inhibits the neurotoxicity of ketamine and nitrous oxide, while actually producing neuroprotective effects.[139][140]
 
By the way, how many liters per hour will I need for best effects, provided I use a rebreather?
 
copium7777 said:
@Skorpio here ya go
Xenon interacts with many different receptors and ion channels, and like many theoretically multi-modal inhalation anesthetics, these interactions are likely complementary. Xenon is a high-affinity glycine-site NMDA receptor antagonist.[138] However, xenon is different from certain other NMDA receptor antagonists in that it is not neurotoxic and it inhibits the neurotoxicity of ketamine and nitrous oxide, while actually producing neuroprotective effects.[139][140]
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With regards to refs 139 and140, i am not sure if c-fos is a good marker if neurotoxicity. It is quite linked to addiction/reward and could just as well be due to a dampening of the dri effects of ketamine. Nitrous oxide as well is rewarding due to increasing opioid peptide release. This hypothesis is supported by the experiment in 139 where haloperidol blocked the c-fos induction of ketamine and nitrous.

Either way it is good that there is literature about xenon that doesn't highlight any immediately obvious toxicity.

Not trying to have an anti-xenon agenda, just worried about the formation of drug lore from a single readout with multiple interpretations.
 
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