Xanax Alcohol Withdrawal Advice

[reggiee]

I've been using Xanax (Alprazolam) and Restoril (Temazepam) for most of all this year (10 months), but mostly AS NEEDED and 1 to 2 times a week in the beginning.

However, about 3 months ago, I got habituated and used more frequently, almost daily at times.

Stupid, I know, but it really helped with dealing with one of the most tragic events in one's lifetime, though I won't go into details.

For about a month, I've been on about 5 mg Xanax but about 3 weeks ago my Mom died and she was basically my only friend I talked to regularly. It still hurts and I cry almost everyday but to cope I've been drinking alcohol (beer, about a 12 pack per day+) for these 2 weeks WITH the xanax. I know the danger of mixing the two at such high doses but it doesn't make me do the awful things I've read about (amnesia particularly is almost non-existent).

My question: I have about enough for a fast taper, like 0.5 mg reduction PER DAY (thought I've read the maximum reduction should be 0.5 mg per WEEK). I plan to stop the drinking altogether cold turkey right now. I also have 90x 400mg gabapentin and plenty of clonidine. I also have SSRIs if those might help though I'm still unsure.

Should I go see a doctor for help (maybe switch to diazepam and taper that) or just go with my fast taper plan. I appreciate all opinions on this, thank you.

Edit: I also have L-theanine, Phenibut (which I know has high addiction/dependence potential, so I use it rarely), Magnesium Citrate, Valerian, 5-HTP with EGCG, etc. And I take protein shakes (due to lack of appetite) and try to stay healthy with supplements/vitamins that make me feel better, generally. I'm not working at the moment but my financial situation can support additional OTC remedies that can help. I'm curious to know if w/d at home is feasible given my situation when I can be bed ridden for maybe a week or so. I just don't want to be in w/d for many months if my doctor can help me ease the atrocious symptoms I've read about. I also don't want to be labeled as "drug seeking," and things like that because my health care provider may be it for many years, if not for life. I'm in my early 30s btw but still get carded for alcohol frequently so I guess I'm in somewhat good health and still look young(er). Thanks again for any help.

 

[Doug2113]

I'm sorry about your mother. You should definitely go talk to a doctor. You can become dependent on gabapentin as well and stopping suddenly can induce seizures. I've also heard that gabapentin withdrawal is just hell too. A fast taper is going to be extremely uncomfortable, especially if you plan on reducing dosage every day. Day 2 might not be bad, but I can see it becoming quite hellish by day 4/5.

 

[effie]

I agree that you should see a doctor. A longer-acting benzo is usually best for a taper and I think it would be a lot safer to do this under medical supervision. If you've been taking Xanax daily for 3 months and have got up to 5mg a day, a fast taper is not only likely to be uncomfortable, it could be dangerous too. I also think it would be sensible to talk to the doctor about your drinking.. and about your bereavement in general, it's really important to have some support at a time like this.

I'm so sorry to hear about your mother - I have personal experience in bereavement and I know how painful it is, especially if you lose the person closest to you.. If you want to talk to anyone about it, I recommend The Dark Side forum - it's full of lovely people who will listen and support you through difficult times

 

[reggiee]

I appreciate your guys' help and your kind sympathy.

I know the doctor route would be safest and wisest. However, my experience with my health care has not been good at all. That is, I think they might not even treat me, and if they did it would not be done properly, like write me an SSRI and send me home. Maybe I should just go straight to a private psychiatrist/drug specialist?

I'm still considering the alternative (detox myself with the meds I already have). Again, I think I can handle most of the symptoms since I can be bedridden for at least a week. I just don't want to have a seizure and die. Does anyone think this is feasible (let's assume I have no access to medical help)?? Would it be stupid to, say, drop to 2 or so mg for a day or two and see how I feel? Thanks again.

 

[effie]

I really don't know exactly what the seizure risk would be. People differ in their seizure threshold and I don't have any experience in this specific area.. Perhaps try going to your doctor and see what they say? I can't imagine they would ask you to just cut yourself off the Xanax, given how dangerous that would be, so I would be hopeful that they would prescribe and supervise a taper or at least refer you to someone who could..

I don't think you have anything to lose by trying that first rather than going straight to a private psychiatrist

I honestly don't know how dangerous your home taper would be, but it makes me uneasy and I think it would be a lot better to get some professional advice and support..

 

[reggiee]

I don't think you have anything to lose by trying that [your current provider] first rather than going straight to a private psychiatrist

Thank you for the advice. My concern is being labeled as drug seeking, frustration from that, poorer care in the future, etc. If I go to a private doctor, I don't believe they can share my info with the rest of the healthcare industry.

 

[effie]

Ahh I see.. I don't know how the US healthcare system works I'm afraid. I really would try to get some professional advice though, either from your regular doctor or privately.. Personally I think that asking for help to taper off isn't drug-seeking at al - you are wanting to come off the benzos, not be given an ongoing script, but I appreciate your concerns. It really isn't worth risking your health over, though..

I've not used it myself but others have recommended taking a look at the Ashton Manual for information on withdrawing from benzos

 

[BIGsherm7272]

Thank you for the advice. My concern is being labeled as drug seeking, frustration from that, poorer care in the future, etc. If I go to a private doctor, I don't believe they can share my info with the rest of the healthcare industry.

Aren't all doctors private in the US? Of course except for the ones that work in hospitals, but even most of them have their own private practice.......And anything you tell them will go on your medical record regardless, I really don't understand what you hope to achieve by seeing a psychiatrist......

 

[reggiee]

^^Maybe I don't understand the system myself. I was under the impression that a person's medical file/record stays at a particular physician's office or hospital, for example, and can't be shared between offices without the patient's consent. I wondered why I had to keep filling out medical questionnaires when taking my Mom to different doctors she was referred to. The doctor explained to me that medical history/records are not shared between doctors. Though it's possible I misunderstood what he meant. Can anyone clarify please?

Anyway, yesterday I tried to make an appointment with a doctor listed on one of those benzo withdrawal websites and he called back saying he isn't seeing patients for that reason anymore. But yesterday I also drank less and only took 4 mg of xanax. I still haven't felt any bad w/d symptoms but only time will tell. I might try to drop my dose even more today and see how I feel. I know I also need to stop drinking. I will look some more for someone who will treat me but I can always go to the ER (of my current, government run, that is, VA provider) if things get really bad. Does anyone know if the VA can really access any record of "outside" doctors I have seen? That is, without my permission/court order/police investigation/etc??

 

[nsauce]

Drop slow and low. A switch to a longer acting benzo (valium or klonopin) at the end will help tremendously. Lots of people swear by the ashton manual (google it) but it really seemed too long and drawn out for me. I dropped as rapidly as I could, until I could feel the w/d symptoms, then I would stop dropping my dose and "coast" for 4-5 days to adjust to the lower dose . I am on my 3rd day of withdrawal from ~18 months of 6-8mg of xanax daily. I feel pretty normal, TBH . I got down to 2mg xanax a day, then switched to 2mg klonopin and tapered down to .25mg daily and then stopped. Clonodine helps, diphenhydramine helps.

Your medical records will stay at whatever doctor you want them to stay at. Only you can authorize transfer of your records .
You can look for an "Addiction Specialist" if you want a doctor to help, or a psychiatrist will generally be able to help .

 

[Allein]

^^^

I've used the Ashton Manual as a guide and I agree its a bit drawn out but if you make the plan and feel you can go lower then you can do so, I did a couple of times and also held the dose for a couple of times.
Admittedly I have relapsed but that just the way it rolls I guess I'm planning on starting another taper at the end of the month. Always use Diaz anyway but I would agree you need a long half life benzo to do the job.

 

[reggiee]

^^Congrats on making it as far as you have.

My problem is I don't really know what severe symptoms feel like. I've felt the insomnia and some anxiety in the past when stopping after too long a bender, but nothing that felt too serious.

The clonidine I have definitely helps with sleep, at the cost of dry mouth which we all know contributes heavily to tooth decay. I think I'm semi-permanently tolerant to diph (which I have anyway). I have to take at least 200 mg to feel any sedation, even after stopping for months. A few days of taking diph and it would take 300-400 mg to achieve any kind of sedation for me. At this dose, I'm sure I'm not reducing harm and it can often seems like a stimulant (since it is a vasoconstrictor, I believe).

I've read tons on threads on this kind of withdrawal and there doesn't seem to be a consensus. My current supply won't allow me to do a "safe" taper (unless a doctor helps me), but I'm planning on taking as little as possible and see how I feel. I just don't want to suddenly seize and die so I'm trying to hear what other think. So far today, I've only had 0.5 mg xanax and 3 beers and I feel just fine. I plan to stop the beer today and take 0.5 mg as needed if I start feeling shitty. I appreciate all your input(s) and will keep everyone updated on how things are going.

 

[reggiee]

Just an update in case I need some kind of intervention. I dropped my xanax dose rapidly to 2 mg, then 1.5, now down to 1 mg per day. I'm taking gabapentin (roughly 2000 mg/d) and have still have not felt any withdrawal that I can attribute to my drug use. I'm also still drinking alcohol daily, but at a lower dose. I don't feel agitated or shaky or anything similar in the morning. I feel like I should simply stop everything and see how I feel.

Could the worst of withdrawal come suddenly? That is, could I feel perfectly fine, then suddenly seize and die in bed? Please tell me what y'all think.

 

[reggiee]

So I stayed at 1 mg/d xanax for about 4 days and had no appetite; had to force myself to eat. Suppose I had 100 x 10 mg diazepam. My last dose was high today, about 2 mg xanax and beers. How could I taper with the least amount of pain in your opinions?

 

[painenduser]

Reggiee, there are a couple of things that are throwing red flags for me here. It sounds like you are trying to taper off of both alcohol and benzo's? Am I understanding this correct? Please let me know because I have alot of experience here. I am almost 1.5 years sober now, with many bumps along the way to get there but I need to understand exactly what you are taking now, and where you want to get to. By no means should this trump any professional advise as benzo's and alcohol are the 2 most dangerous substances to come off of depending on how much of each you are on per day. If you can let me know what your on of each per day I can give you some very sound advise.

Also you mentioned something about fearing going to a private Dr because you dont want to be labled as a drug seeker, don't worry about that, I doubt you will run into that. Also the reason that when you go to different Dr's you have to fill out what seems to be the same paper work each time, is because of the Federal HIPPA (Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act)laws which is the Federal medical privacy act. Your information can not be shared between Dr's with out your written consent unless those doctor work with in the same office / institution. So your ok there. But let me know what you can as it seems as those somethings have changed since your first post and I will be more then happy to help you out, and help you do it safely. I will also avise you that as dangerous as these substances can be to detox from, it is in your best interest to seek professional help so that you can taper safely and with the least amount of discomfort. Let me know if you would like me to help you here.

 

[reggiee]

^^I've had mild/moderate alcohol withdrawals many years ago. Basically feeling shitty/nauseous for a few days. I detoxed with low dose diazepam (I think 20 mg/d) for 5 days and stopped drinking for like 4 years without additional help. I started drinking again on a daily basis recently for about a month ago due to above reasons. I've also been taking xanax daily for about 3 months, with some few day breaks. My habit got up to 5+ mg/d with beers on many/most occasions. I don't really think I'll seize but would like the most comfortable taper with 100 x 10 mg diazepam so I can live my life normally and actually grieve healthily, perhaps only when I'm off these drugs.

Edit: By that I mean ALL drugs. Thanks for your help btw

 

[painenduser]

^^I've had mild/moderate alcohol withdrawals many years ago. Basically feeling shitty/nauseous for a few days. I detoxed with low dose diazepam (I think 20 mg/d) for 5 days and stopped drinking for like 4 years without additional help. I started drinking again on a daily basis recently for about a month ago due to above reasons. I've also been taking xanax daily for about 3 months, with some few day breaks. My habit got up to 5+ mg/d with beers on many/most occasions. I don't really think I'll seize but would like the most comfortable taper with 100 x 10 mg diazepam so I can live my life normally and actually grieve healthily, perhaps only when I'm off these drugs.

Edit: By that I mean ALL drugs. Thanks for your help btw

You really shouldn't have any issues from stopping the xanax is you are going to switch to the valium to help you detox from the alcohol.

However 5mg's of xanax per day according to the benzo conversion is equal to 100mg's of valium per day. With that high of a dose, I honestly am not comfortable walking you through a detox from the xanax. I can easily walk you through a detox from alcohol using the valium, but with such high doses of xanax your are dabbling into pretty dangerous territory and I would suggest going into a rehab program. There are a few free detox centers in NJ, I know, I have been to most of them and depending on where you live in NJ I can give you some references if you want to PM me. I would not recommend take the risk of doing this on your own especially since you have the alcohol in the mix.

Keep in mind that everyone is different and everyone will detox differently.


Common withdraw symptoms from alcohol that you try to mitigate with the valium:
Elevated blood pressure, pulse and temperature, hyperarousal, agitation, restlessness, cutaneous flushing, tremors, diaphoresis, dilated pupils, ataxia, clouding of consciousness, disorientation, most severe seizure

Other symptoms:
Anxiety, panic, paranoid delusions, illusions, visual and auditory hallucinations (often derogatory and intimidating)

Common withdraw symptoms from Benzos (xanax) again switching to the valium should help you here are they are both benzo's:
Increased psychomotor activity, agitation, muscular weakness, tremulousness, hyperpyrexia, diaphoresis, delirium, convulsions, elevated blood pressure, pulse and temperature, tremor of eyelids, tongue and hands, and most severe seizures

Other symptoms:
Anxiety, depression, euphoria, incoherent thoughts, hostility, grandiosity, disorientation, tactile, auditory and visual hallucinations, suicidal thoughts

I wanted to walk you through a good stable detox from the alcohol until I saw the amount of xanax you have in the mix. And while you can do it with the amount of valium you have, please understand that it would against my better judgement to tell you to do it alone. As this is a harm reduction site, I could potentially put you in more harm by walking you through a taper from the xanax. Others may tell you it's simple, here's what you should do, however due to that large of a dose, I can not in good conscience do that, I'm sorry. I hope you can understand.

However, like I said, being from NJ myself, if you want to PM me, I would be glad to help you find a detox program that would hopefully be in your area, and one where it may not cost you anything, of course that all depends on your current financial situation, age, and insurance availability.

Please understand that I want you to get help and I want you to sober up from both, I just can't put myself in a position that goes against my morals and could possibly put you in a dangerous position being that I don't know you or anything about your full situation, which all needs to be taken into account by any professional who would be putting you on a detox regiment. Even if I did, the safety factor would not be there. Best of luck to you Reggiee, and please don't hesitate to PM me if you would like that additional information I was offering since we both live in NJ.

-Pain

Not to be forgotten, I am really sorry to hear about the loss of your mom, and I know how hard it can be, especially for us addicts as our coping mechanism tells us to hide behind the drug rather then grieve, which is really the best medicine. Greiving can be a very powerful medicine, but the grieving itself hurts so bad that we tend to bury that pain in our addiction and therefore we never truly grieve and deal with the sadness. Get yourself sober so you can grieve. I wish you only the best. And I believe Effie was mentioning, if you need somewhere to talk an grieve openly, the Dark Side forums is a wonderful place. You will not be judged there and everyone over there can empathize with your feelings and loss. My heart goes out to you and your family.

 

[opiatekrzy]

its suggested to taper 0.5mg per week

 

[reggiee]

its suggested to taper 0.5mg per week

I think you mean 10mg cuts each week if using diazepam?

And to clarify, I was not on 5mg/d of xanax for very long. That lasted about a week (though I admit, with drinking). Previously I was on lower, somewhat random and almost daily doses, and NOT drinking on them usually. The drinking started about a month ago where my tolerance quickly shot up.

I would not worry so much but I am very fearful because the horror stories I read where people felt perfectly fine for a few days after stopping xanax or other benzos, only to experience a delayed and severe withdrawal, even with seizures coming out of no where. But then again, I haven't had 5mg xanax since my original post, 10 days ago, at which point I tried to taper too quickly, realizing the need for diazepam when I had pretty bad insomnia and mild audio hallucinations (maybe dreams?), sleep disturbances like that. I was depressed/anxious at times and my appetite was non-existent for days also, but nothing very scary was experienced.

If I start at 50mg per day and cut by 10mg each week, it would leave me with 50mg total after 5 weeks. I could then cut to 5mg for 7 days, and have 6 days at 2.5mg, then jump if I don't come up with more diazepam. Does this seem like a sound plan? Or should I try to start at a lower starting dose and taper more gradually (e.g. 5mg cut per week)? I know the preferred method is to cut by no more than 10% per week or two, but my supply won't allow for that unless I start the taper at a much lower dose. Thanks again for all your help.

 

[painenduser]

No Reggie, that doesn't sound like a bad plan at all, infact the less you can take and get the most amount of relief is usually the best. As for those horror stories, they are not really stories perse, they are true and can and due happen when taking high doses of Benzo's and then quitting cold turkey, or even tappering then stopping only to have mojor panic attacks upwards of 2 weeks later. It's not really a delayed withdraw, but more of a common side effect after long or high dose runs with Benzo's. I have known people to tapper down completely to the point of not needing them anymore, only to have major panic attacks upwar of 14 to 30 days after complete secession of Xanax. I mostly hear this about xanax though an no so much other benzos and that may just be that xanax is the most commonly abused benzo. However I have not heard of anyone seizing after such a taper and being completely clean of the xanax for a period of time, so I do not think you should have to worry about that. In all seizure related instances I have run across with Benzo's it was usually within the first 24-72 hours after quitting cold turkey. So it sounds like you should be ok. Best of luck to you, and try not to break your stride of coming down even if you do run into a panic attack or two coming down, it's likely to happen, but just keep that in mind it's likely to happen and you will get through it.

However, if at anytime you feel like you might seize (although if it's never happened to you, you may not know), get help or have someone get help immediately. Even though they are likely to treat a seizure with diazapam, they would be pushing it via IV for immediate relief. The reason I say if you feel as though you might, is because for people that have seized, they have all told me that they could tell if it has happened to them before, they generally know what to expect if it happens again.

Sorry if this post is a little confusing, I am working on very little sleep right now. Good luck to you and again, if I can help with anything especially since we are both from Jersey, let me know. I definitely know of some good places in this state to get help and some are free or covered by Charity Care if you qualify and have no insurance.