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  • BDD Moderators: Keif’ Richards | negrogesic

Meth Would anybody say that trading a drinking habit for a meth habit can be understandable?

tmancan

Greenlighter
Joined
Mar 19, 2022
Messages
2
I'm a 30 year old guy, and have a pretty run-of-the-mill history of a drug user born in the 90s. I've done practically everything on the market, and throughout most of it I was a raging alcoholic. When I was 15 and my mom passed away from breast cancer, my drinking and weed smoking got much worse, I started also using painkillers, adderall, cocaine & crack in a handful of short periods, and occasional trip on acid. This was mostly around 18-23, and then I slipped into a deep addiction to percoset and fentanyl.


Drinking was always the centerpiece to my addictions, and although it slowed down during my opiate abuse, it existed and was my immediate fallback when I quit the pills in 2017. I spent a few more years becoming a full-blown drunk again, mostly ending in 2020, when I got charges for domestic violence and vandalism at my grandparents house while drinking with my cousin. On top of that, throughout my life I've had 3 DUIs while drinking. I've probably spent more time driving without a license than with one. Overall, I was a real asshole. I allowed all kinds of foul things to happen under my roof. I used friends and family and then ignored them or was otherwise unappreciative. And when I blacked out, I would be a gross creep with women, and any woman too; age, weight, married, pregnant, didn't matter to me. There were often fights, arguing, broken things, stolen things, and random other drugs involved in my drinking.

Fast forward to now, I've mostly stayed sober the last 4 years aside from a relapse in mid 2021 that led to more charges and another move into a fourth sober living house. At that house, I started a meth habit because I would come home drunk and another guy living there smoked it. I had done it a handful of times before, but always considered myself more of a downer kind of person. I always had trouble with not being able to sleep. But, in the beginning of using it at the sober house, it was just for a wake up to allow me more time to be drunk. I didn't buy it myself, but I started asking to hit the pizzo more often.

Eventually I did start buying my own, and once I started using it regularly it pretty much stopped my alcoholism dead in its tracks. I was working steadily at a warehouse, got back into school, and was even being groomed to be the house manager. Everybody thought I was doing great.

The "going great" part lasted until around the end of 2022. The courts allowed me to move back in with my grandparents, and I've mostly been coasting and waiting for the probation and mental health court stuff to wrap up. Once I complete some DV classes, all my charges will be dismissed. But I've still been a daily meth smoker for about 2 years now.

I can 100% see how it's affecting my body, mind, and spirit; yet I still find myself able to believe that voice in my head that says, "Yeah, but is it really that bad?". I mean, if it wasn't for the uncontrollable horniness, addiction to chaturbate, irritability, hygiene/acne, and the little trolls that the Gods sent to hide shit from me; if all that was gone, I'd say the meth use, when compared to the side-effects of quitting, might be a reasonable trade. Of course, because of the things mentioned the overall goal is to get clean. However, I think if, for some reason, I felt myself slipping back into a drinking habit again after quitting meth, I might choose to pick the pipe back up to re-kill that urge. I've heard plenty of people say meth is sustainable if you take long breaks, take care of hygiene, etc., but I'm just not sure if I'm capable of long breaks. My energy levels and mood drop so much without it, I usually only make it a few days.

Any thoughts on the "lesser of two evils" argument/excuse for using?
 
I mean, if it wasn't for the uncontrollable horniness, addiction to chaturbate, irritability, hygiene/acne, and the little trolls that the Gods sent to hide shit from me; if all that was gone, I'd say the meth use, when compared to the side-effects of quitting, might be a reasonable trade.

In my opinion, the fact that this is even a question is something I may have said as well when using.
 
Any thoughts on the "lesser of two evils" argument/excuse for using?
Far be it from me to argue with it if it's making you happier than alcohol was, and you seem to understand how ridiculous it is.

Unfortunately you've got a lot to unpack. Seems like you've been dealt a rough hand since before you could even drive a car, and that's a really rough way to grow up and into an adult. Mental health court, three DUIs, domestic violence. So not only all the childhood stuff to unpack, but all the shit that went down during your relationship with alcohol..

I'll tell you this much, meth isn't sustainable. The psychosis will get more frequent and it will get worse. You'll continue to errode the really valuable and important parts of a persons character, empathy, vulnerability, humility, patience, sorrow, etc as you grow more and more hungry for instant gratification. As you lose those traits you can kiss any role in a leadership position (manager) goodbye. You can't be an angry selfish asshole and successfully manage people for very long (in b4 "tell that to my boss") or successfully keep a happy loving family together if you one day wish to do so.


However, I'm assuming you have a court mandated psychiatrist? ADHD is often attributed to impulsive, risky, and dangerous behaviors that are high reward in some way. The theory being that ADHD is a disorder in which dopamine is abnormally low in the synapse, thus a sufferor has difficulty concentrating on behaviors which work towards a far away goal (completing homework assignments in order to pass the class three months from now/ throwing trash away from your car so it doesn't become a gross mess in a few weeks/ exercising each day to keep your body healthy and extend your lifespan) and favor the quick dopamine rush behaviors like speeding, risky sex with strangers, petty exhilarating crime lime vandalism or shoplifting, video games, masturbation, and of course hard drugs and alcohol which are associated with a dopamine release.

Actually, did you know ADHD is the most signifcant mental health risk for developing a substance abuse disorder with any mind altering compound?

Did you know amphetamine based preparations have pretty unambiguous success in reducing the urge to engage in risky and compulsive behavior, and ADHD patients who are medicated prior to abusing substances are far less likely to engage in drug abuse?

You see where I'm going here? Meth is 100% not sustainable. But perhaps you have ADHD, and that is why things have begun to turn around for you with meth. I'd say it's worth trying even if you don't have ADHD because uh... prescribed theraputic doses of amphetamine can't really hurt at this point.


The key here is that you need to be certain you haven't fucked your ability to benefit from small oral doses of amphetamine. If you want this to work you'll need to stop all recreational RoAs ASAP (anything but oral). I suppose if you wanted to "test" this theory you could buy a mg scale, grind up some multi vitamins, load some empty capsules half full of vitamin powder, then weigh out crushed up doses of meth to prolly 40/50mg and to 7 capsules. Take one on a weekend morning (don't experiment with yer brain at work) and see if it's functional. You'll want it to have zero euphoria, just be functional. Because next week, step back 10mg. Then next week down 10mg again. You'll need to get down to like 5mg dose of meth ONCE a day in order to prepare for an effective dose of the less hard hitting substance amphetamine in. Vyvanse, Adderall, or Zenzedi

You could legit be on to something here bud, don't fuck it up
 
No I think it can be very destructive. I don't believe they "can't hurt"
I gotcha, poor phrasing on my part

I guess what I mean is it is at least a way to discuss the possibility that this phenomenon is more than addiction swapping with a professional, and could theoretically be stepped down to a more sustainable plan of theraputic use

But yes- Adderal and Vyvanse are in their own right abusable
 
I guess what I mean is it is at least a way to discuss the possibility that this phenomenon is more than addiction swapping with a professional, and could theoretically be stepped down to a more sustainable plan of theraputic use

There are endless possibilities I do think talking professionals and discussing possible underlying conditions is important yes
 
There are endless possibilities I do think talking professionals and discussing possible underlying conditions is important yes
This is true. Seems like he knows somewhere that his substance hopping isn't sustainable long term, hopefully he entertains at least asking for info on ADHD with his psych

Short of that, I hope he at least remains away from alcohol The three DUIs is a bit alarming
 
Would anyone suggest that throwing gasoline on a fire is possible?
Yes, but to think it will put out the fire is wishful thinking at best.

I also think that when we know something about ourselves, like that we tend to drink less when otherwise high, we have that experience yes but we have no clue how far it can go.
 
I gotcha, poor phrasing on my part

I guess what I mean is it is at least a way to discuss the possibility that this phenomenon is more than addiction swapping with a professional, and could theoretically be stepped down to a more sustainable plan of theraputic use

But yes- Adderal and Vyvanse are in their own right abusable

Im not trying to be argumentative, but haven’t you been pointing out that stimulants, like ADHD meds, are being are being over prescribed? I believe you compared prescribed stimulants to that of prescription opioids .. saying that you feel they’re being over prescribed. Something along those lines anyways.
My point is, I suppose, you seem to sort of promote the use of “therapeutic” doses of meth, or mentioned ADHD meds to some degree, in almost every post I’ve seen you make.
Like this one.

This person has obviously traded one substance for another. I’ve yet to meet an addict in full blown addiction, that can regulate their own therapeutic doses. Not saying it can’t happen, just that’s it’s rare.

I don’t feel that promoting this, is doing anyone any favours. Respectfully.
 
Alcohol has a relatively slow path to the physical destruction of the body
Meth's path to the physical destruction of the body is markedly quicker

If one has an addictive personality; replacing a substance with a slow destructive path to a substance with a fast path to destruction will only serve to hasten the bodies destruction, while the destructive behavior is transferred from one substance to another. I'm at a loss to as how this will be a path to a better outcome. One may feel better in the interim, but the end result is relatively the same, it will just come sooner.
 
I'm a 30 year old guy, and have a pretty run-of-the-mill history of a drug user born in the 90s. I've done practically everything on the market, and throughout most of it I was a raging alcoholic. When I was 15 and my mom passed away from breast cancer, my drinking and weed smoking got much worse, I started also using painkillers, adderall, cocaine & crack in a handful of short periods, and occasional trip on acid. This was mostly around 18-23, and then I slipped into a deep addiction to percoset and fentanyl.


Drinking was always the centerpiece to my addictions, and although it slowed down during my opiate abuse, it existed and was my immediate fallback when I quit the pills in 2017. I spent a few more years becoming a full-blown drunk again, mostly ending in 2020, when I got charges for domestic violence and vandalism at my grandparents house while drinking with my cousin. On top of that, throughout my life I've had 3 DUIs while drinking. I've probably spent more time driving without a license than with one. Overall, I was a real asshole. I allowed all kinds of foul things to happen under my roof. I used friends and family and then ignored them or was otherwise unappreciative. And when I blacked out, I would be a gross creep with women, and any woman too; age, weight, married, pregnant, didn't matter to me. There were often fights, arguing, broken things, stolen things, and random other drugs involved in my drinking.

Fast forward to now, I've mostly stayed sober the last 4 years aside from a relapse in mid 2021 that led to more charges and another move into a fourth sober living house. At that house, I started a meth habit because I would come home drunk and another guy living there smoked it. I had done it a handful of times before, but always considered myself more of a downer kind of person. I always had trouble with not being able to sleep. But, in the beginning of using it at the sober house, it was just for a wake up to allow me more time to be drunk. I didn't buy it myself, but I started asking to hit the pizzo more often.

Eventually I did start buying my own, and once I started using it regularly it pretty much stopped my alcoholism dead in its tracks. I was working steadily at a warehouse, got back into school, and was even being groomed to be the house manager. Everybody thought I was doing great.

The "going great" part lasted until around the end of 2022. The courts allowed me to move back in with my grandparents, and I've mostly been coasting and waiting for the probation and mental health court stuff to wrap up. Once I complete some DV classes, all my charges will be dismissed. But I've still been a daily meth smoker for about 2 years now.

I can 100% see how it's affecting my body, mind, and spirit; yet I still find myself able to believe that voice in my head that says, "Yeah, but is it really that bad?". I mean, if it wasn't for the uncontrollable horniness, addiction to chaturbate, irritability, hygiene/acne, and the little trolls that the Gods sent to hide shit from me; if all that was gone, I'd say the meth use, when compared to the side-effects of quitting, might be a reasonable trade. Of course, because of the things mentioned the overall goal is to get clean. However, I think if, for some reason, I felt myself slipping back into a drinking habit again after quitting meth, I might choose to pick the pipe back up to re-kill that urge. I've heard plenty of people say meth is sustainable if you take long breaks, take care of hygiene, etc., but I'm just not sure if I'm capable of long breaks. My energy levels and mood drop so much without it, I usually only make it a few days.

Any thoughts on the "lesser of two evils" argument/excuse for using?

Neither is great (obv) but I'd definitely rater be addicted to meth. Alcohol just fucks everything up so much faster than most drugs IMO/IME. Plus, with meth withdrawal at least you don't have like seizures and death. I have brain damage due to hypoxia from a 6 minute seizure from alcohol withdrawal and my soulmate died of a massive seizure from it, too.
I'm also a completely insulin-dependant diabetic because of alcohol (alcoholism > acute necrotizing pancreatitis > total pancreatic failure > complete inability to synthesize or secrete insulin).
I know meth is bad, but I see your point.
Just to be clear: yes, meth IS that bad...just not...IDK...on a 1-10 scale with 1 being something like weed where a lot of people can just casually be fine and not have it negatively impact their lives and 10 being something that will destroy every aspect of your life, physical health, mental health, relationships etc, I'd have alcohol at a 10 and meth at a 7 or 8.
 
Alcohol has a relatively slow path to the physical destruction of the body
Meth's path to the physical destruction of the body is markedly quicker
Not always and not in my experience. I used (various amphetamines) for a long time with no ill effects on my PHYSICAL health (besides severe weight loss, but I started using them due to anorexia, so even that one thing was a plus to me), whereas alcohol completely obliterated my pancreas in just a couple years. It also made me look...wrong. Like, if you've watched Intervention...you know how some of the people just LOOK like there's obviously something wrong with them? But obv meth can do that, too.

I guess it depends on whether tooth retention or a functioning liver are more important to you?
 
There are endless possibilities I do think talking professionals and discussing possible underlying conditions is important yes
I see what you're saying now, my bad.

I'm gonna leave my half brain comment up for context, but OP regardless of the discussion with your psych over that possibility, shift focus to a meth exit plan. You have a pattern of trading substances, and meth is no pre-workout or vitamin

Consider this too, myself. None of my stimulant related issues have anything much to do with ADHD, I get my most theraputic benefit from buproprion. Adderall and Vyvanse never really helped, and meth has done the complete opposite it's actually way way harder to be motivated or focused on planning and prioritizing while spun. Even now I recognize too that the "benefits" of meth I recognized at the start were actually just imagined, and were nothing I haven't accomplished with consistent and comfortable daily routines and planning.

I made an ass of myself, not used to a proper harm reduction discussion board
 
Im not trying to be argumentative, but haven’t you been pointing out that stimulants, like ADHD meds, are being are being over prescribed? I believe you compared prescribed stimulants to that of prescription opioids .. saying that you feel they’re being over prescribed. Something along those lines anyways.
My point is, I suppose, you seem to sort of promote the use of “therapeutic” doses of meth, or mentioned ADHD meds to some degree, in almost every post I’ve seen you make.
Like this one.

This person has obviously traded one substance for another. I’ve yet to meet an addict in full blown addiction, that can regulate their own therapeutic doses. Not saying it can’t happen, just that’s it’s rare.

I don’t feel that promoting this, is doing anyone any favours. Respectfully.
I guess I didn't realize I had promoted them in other threads

But yeah, made an ass of myself here and posted without really thinking it through. I do think it's worth discussing with a psych, but ofc the majority of meth users are not doing so because of undiagnosed ADHD
 
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