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worried about a friend.. -LSD

Well he's never going to know if he would have developed SCZ on his own or if onset was brought about due to drugs unless he stops using drugs.

And honestly he will never know which drug caused this in the first place if he has been using weed for a long time and used a lot of LSD for a while. Not to mention I'm sure those aren't the only drugs he's ever done. I don't see how this distinction would matter much to him anyway. To you guys it's something to speculate about, on a drug forum and all. If he ever does get better he will be trying hard not to look back on that terrible time in his life, and thankful for recovery.

Trust me taking lots and lots of drugs can cause schizophrenia. It happened to me. Ketamine was the primary culprit in my case but that wasn't the only drug I was using. It's pretty obvious that it was the drugs when I managed to fully recover in about a month's time after I stopped using the drugs. (SCZ won't go away instantly, as it relies on a system of beliefs which must also be broken down and re-evaluated by the person).

Having been down that road and dug my way out of it with will power and a new kind of open-mindedness, letting go of fear and paranoia, I can tell you the evolution of a person from "normal" to "schizophrenic" under the influence of drugs is totally possible, does happen, and it happens gradually while the person believes their mental illness is some kind of truth, revelation, or maybe even a possible "upgrade". Therefore the illness becomes self-sustaining and the only way to stop it is to get an absolutely clear mind and in a situation without external stress so you can begin to work on the internal stress.

That can only happen once you realize you've actually flown the coop, which is a giant step for recovery.

I'm not saying "if I did it, anyone can do it". I think I have a strong mind and a resilient spirit. I was also lucky that there was some form of intervention and I was able to stop the illness before it turned into a permanent condition.

Perhaps having been in those shoes I feel a greater urgency to offer real advice and help to move this guy's friend forward from this hellish disease. A "bad trip" doesn't even begin to describe SCZ.
 
bluedolphin said:
Well he's never going to know if he would have developed SCZ on his own or if onset was brought about due to drugs unless he stops using drugs.
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It's pretty much a circular argument tho isn't it dolphin - if anyone who gets it from psychedelics would have got it anyway there's never going to be much evidence. Although I still think you'd be seeing a drop in the age schizophrenia happened if smoking pot and taking drugs were triggering it. A lot of people are smoking dope at 13. Schizophrenia still usually comes on in your late teens/early 20s, just like it has done for the last 100 years.

Trust me taking lots and lots of drugs can cause schizophrenia. It happened to me. Ketamine was the primary culprit in my case but that wasn't the only drug I was using. It's pretty obvious that it was the drugs when I managed to fully recover in about a month's time after I stopped using the drugs. (SCZ won't go away instantly, as it relies on a system of beliefs which must also be broken down and re-evaluated by the person).

Are you saying you had schizophrenia but then stopped taking drugs and the schizophrenia went away? I've never heard of schizophrenia behaving like that - the cause as far as I'm aware is genetic.
 
izzy said:
I've never heard of schizophrenia behaving like that - the cause as far as I'm aware is genetic.
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I was also under this impression, drug induced schizophrenia like symptoms ≠ schizophrenia. There are a number of other psychotic disorders, after all. But I'm being more pedantic than I like, I got what the dude was saying well enough...so whatever.
 
Is this now a debate about the causes of mental illness?

Well, I've been in this game a long fucking time & I personally believe almost without question that mental illness can be brought on by the use of some recreational drugs. I suspect that even a completely normal person with no history of mental illness in the family & no obvious predisposition to it COULD suffer a proper mental breakdown from using drugs.

This is my personal opinion. I do not have any evidenc to pove the point. All I have is my own personal experiences & they suggest that in extremely rare cases, mental problems from depression & anxiety to psychosis & schizophrenia CAN be & ARE caused by the use of illicit drugs.
 
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I only read the first post and no replies. It simply sounds IMO that your friend has uncovered a possible mental illness if he truly to a true degree has a fine paranoia of foods/drinks/etc being poisoned. He takes LSD/ smokes much grass, now beings to thinks hes being poisoned, sounds like some scizo effects(mental illnesses...though eh...? Oh well get 'em some help!
Probably a repost but like stated....
 
Si Ingwe said:
All I have is my own personal experiences & they suggest that in extremely rare cases, mental problems from depression & anxiety to psychosis & schizophrenia CAN be & ARE caused by the use of illicit drugs.
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Maybe, but depression, anxiety, psychosis and schizophrenia were all happening before drugs and if all drugs vanished tomorrow they would still exist. What would we blame it on then?

You'd think the rates would have exploded if drugs were causing psychosis - seeing as 50 years ago barely anyone used drugs and now countless millions do every weekend.
 
If, & I doubt you'd argue this, we count Alcohol as a drug then I am certain there were "drug" related psychological problems 50 years ago...

But that's besides the point. The point you're deliberately ignoring is that in extremely rare cases, some forms of serious psychological illness are caused by drugs such as LSD. I'm gonna emphasize this for you Is, EXTREMELY RARE! I'm not suggesting ALL mental health problems the modern world sees are caused by LSD or drugs use in general, so no need to discuss that point further. Irradicate every form of inebriant from modern life & I suspect the ratio of cases of mental health problems against population size would barely change.
 
Ismene said:
Maybe, but depression, anxiety, psychosis and schizophrenia were all happening before drugs and if all drugs vanished tomorrow they would still exist. What would we blame it on then?

You'd think the rates would have exploded if drugs were causing psychosis - seeing as 50 years ago barely anyone used drugs and now countless millions do every weekend.
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None of us are blaming drugs for the world's mental issues. We are not the anti-drug police (c'mon, this is BL). Rather, I'd want all chemicals (maybe some extreme exceptions, i.e deliriants) to be freely available. Whatever the chase may be, with lack of hard evidence on either side (leaving your nicotine argument for what it is), caution and care are advised, and when psychological problems occur it might be a good plan to stop using drugs.

Now, let's shut up about this because we're repeating ourselves over and over and over and over and over and over again. Oh and over again.
 
Ismene said:
i didn't make that figure up

But I asked you what it meant. You arn't saying schizoprhrenia rates in London have doubled in the last 40 years are you?
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i meant precisely what i wrote:
twelvesevndi said:
the incidence of schizophrenic diagnosis doubled in SE London between 1965 and 1997. (http://schizophreniabulletin.oxfordjournals.org/content/32/1/195.full)
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its an explicit statement which cannot be misconstrued. I have again provided a link to the article in question. It is short, you should have no trouble reading it.
It is only relevant to this discussion because you are convinced schizophrenia rates have remained constant. The rate of diagnosis (the data we are limited to) has not remained constant. I thought you might like to know that.
As it goes, you are misinformed on a number of other topics as well but you seem decidedly uninterested in fact so I will leave it at that.

bluedolphin said:
Amazing you guys are focused on defending one drug or another for being "the cause".

It could have been either the weed or the acid, or both, or neither. It doesn't really matter. What matters is that OP's friend gets help as this sounds like a relatively serious mental crisis.
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well said.
 
twelvesevndi said:
i meant precisely what i wrote:
its an explicit statement which cannot be misconstrued.
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Good, then I hope we can both agree it definately doesn't mean that schizophrenia rates have doubled in the period 1965-1997. No medical professional on the face of this earth would support such a ridiculous claim.

It is only relevant to this discussion because you are convinced schizophrenia rates have remained constant

"By using precise methods in its diagnosis and a large, representative population, the incidence rate of schizophrenia seems consistent across the world for the last half-century"

1.0 1.1 Häfner H, an der Heiden W. Epidemiology of Schizophrenia. The Canadian Journal of Psychiatry. 1997;42:139–151.

And, even worse, for anyone claiming LSD is triggering schizophrenia, the rate of schizophrenia is LOWER in those countries with the HIGHEST drug use. I wonder how many people are using LSD in Indonesia compared to the US for example?

The prevalence of schizophrenia tends to be highest in Oceania, the Middle East, and East Asia, while the nations of Australia, Japan, the United States, and Western Europe typically have low prevalence rates. Despite relative geographical proximity, the DALY rate of schizophrenia in Indonesia nearly doubles that of Australia (the nations with the highest and lowest respective rates).

World Health Organization (WHO). Age-standardized DALYs per 100,000 by cause, and Member State, 2004; 2004 [cited 2011-04-01].

I will leave it at that.

I think you should. You are only misinforming people.
 
twelvesevndi said:
I have again provided a link to the article in question.
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Just to give you a clue mate, the article appears to be saying migrants have a higher rate of schizophrenia than others, so in areas of high urban migration such as South London, the schizophrenia rate will vary with migration.

Let me explain again to you - that doesn't mean schizophrenia rates among the native population of South London is doubling every 40 years, it means more migrants suffering schizophrenia have moved into the area. Y'follow?
 
The data kinda adds up, the number of immigrants more than doubled since the 1970s. But, that does not mean there is a steady grow. From the 1950s till the 1970s there was a huge amount of immigration, with worker immigrants and all of that. It'd be more interesting to see how schizophrenia has grown from say 1940-1970, which I couldn't find. The problem there is that there was a huge growth of drug use since the late 50s/60s, which is at about the same time London immigration rates grew. (a coincidence? This guy thinks not) If anyone can find schizophrenia rates of different ethnic groups (would that data even exist?), then we can have this settled once and for all. (Though aren't people from third-world countries supposed to have less mental issues, or was that just depression?) Or maybe we need to focus on a different country which hasn't had immigration workers, but has had a growth in drug use.

And another note, wasn't LSD use in the 1960s MUCH greater than it is now?
 
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He needs to stop smoking cannabis.

You can make a more educated guess as to cause from there. Until then i'd assume it was cannabis related.

If he is a danger to himself or others you should talk him into seeking medical advice from a doctor.

I know what it's like to be paranoid.. it's fckin horrible. He needs to stop taking drugs, get regular sleep and exercise and eat healthily.. if he doesn't get better after trying these things he might wanna consider therapy.

I used to smoke cannabis. Now it makes me paranoid. I start believing that my friends dislike or even hate me. That they've got hidden ways of taking the piss out of me right in front of my face. It even goes as far as me getting lost in my own thoughts and thinking i know what they're thinking.. it's all negative thoughts towards me. I get this from just 2 tokes of a standard spliff. I'm pretty much fine (well.. as fine as i can be / have been for the past 5 - 6 years) when I avoid cannabis.
 
kidklmx said:
Or maybe we need to focus on a different country which hasn't had immigration workers, but has had a growth in drug use.
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Well, the US has had a growth in immigration and a growth in drug use but still has a lower schizophrenia rate than the middle east, south east asia etc where drug use is minimal. It just doesn't add up that drugs are triggering schizophrenia.
 
Thanks for the help guise means alot, i can really understand most peoples points made, and makes sence.. he has sadley been sectioned now as it got bad for him, he posted a status up on facebook wich really worried me saying how he couldnt take it anymore being lied to and everyone poisenin him and being fake so forth, then saying he was gunna kill himself garrunteed after he posted that status :( no more status's was wrote for 3 days after, ( i cant go visit him often because he lives 4 hours on train from me!) but if i could i would, i messaged a friend and he told me what happend, he is safe and getting better we think im going to write to him though, i just really hope he is back to his old self soon, he did stop drugs for ages just carried on with weed' eek x
 
Hope he comes around again after some rest. I think trying give him some contact letter email or txt would be beneficial. All the best
 
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