nobodyspecial
Bluelighter
Tl ; dr
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SLR Moderators: Senior Staff
Women and Badboys
- Thread starter Ninae
- Start date
MyFinalRest
Bluelighter
@Noodle
No, I'm not just "stirring the pot." I've got somewhat of an agenda against "bad science" about human behavior and you are talkin' "bad science" about human behavior. I don't think I was being particularly rude either for not accepting the scientific opinion made in your post. I don't know it all myself, but I don't like fallacious arguments based on shaky, ungrounded, and hardly proven science taken arbitrarily to be undisputable truth.
When you float these "scientific" and essentially "social darwinist" theories, you are being very dangerous. That kind of shit has been very harmful to Western societies over the last 100 years. What's even better, is that much of this thinking is getting debunked by real scientists all the time, but nobody is paying attention.
No, I'm not just "stirring the pot." I've got somewhat of an agenda against "bad science" about human behavior and you are talkin' "bad science" about human behavior. I don't think I was being particularly rude either for not accepting the scientific opinion made in your post. I don't know it all myself, but I don't like fallacious arguments based on shaky, ungrounded, and hardly proven science taken arbitrarily to be undisputable truth.
When you float these "scientific" and essentially "social darwinist" theories, you are being very dangerous. That kind of shit has been very harmful to Western societies over the last 100 years. What's even better, is that much of this thinking is getting debunked by real scientists all the time, but nobody is paying attention.
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Ummm... nowhere did I state that my opinion or my recollections of past readings were absolutes.
Science is constantly being revised based on new information. But, that is not really the subject of this thread. Is it?
I'll have to revisit this topic with a more detailed answer when I can make the time.
Science is constantly being revised based on new information. But, that is not really the subject of this thread. Is it?
I'll have to revisit this topic with a more detailed answer when I can make the time.
MyFinalRest
Bluelighter
This thread is typical Pick-Up Artist material and "science" is bound to be part of the discussion.
I, in no means, want you to take anything I'm saying here personally, so don't be pissed at me. I don't have anything against you.
I just found this though, it's an interesting article refuting the myth of "alpha male" bad-asses theory as being a real sound scientific observation in our society. It's written by an amateur, but it coincides with real life more than most shit you'll see in pop culture dating articles.
/large amount of text
I, in no means, want you to take anything I'm saying here personally, so don't be pissed at me. I don't have anything against you.
I just found this though, it's an interesting article refuting the myth of "alpha male" bad-asses theory as being a real sound scientific observation in our society. It's written by an amateur, but it coincides with real life more than most shit you'll see in pop culture dating articles.
NSFW:
/large amount of text
MyFinalRest
Bluelighter
When I hear women say the typical "I want a guy who is a confident go-getter, someone with lots of money, gets respect, knows what he wants, leadership qualities, high self-esteem etc." I think the woman is not looking for love or companionship, but simply hoping that attaching herself to a man she thinks has these qualities will somehow compensate for her own apparent lack of them.
really? so to be serious about finding a prospective mate, women should seek insecure, unmotivated, under-acheiving, unambitious, financially unstable men? yikes... that sounds worse than dating someone that falls into Ninae's described 'bad boy' image.
and i'm curious whether you'd express the same for men who said they wanted those attributes in a woman.
CoffeeDrinker
Bluelighter
Why would you be curious about anything coming from that account?
Lysis
Bluelighter
^ lol
![:\](https://bluelight.org/xf/BL_Images/Orig_Emoji/wrygrin.gif "wry grin :\")
CoffeeDrinker
Bluelighter
You've proven time and again to be a better person that I.
Lysis
Bluelighter
Misogyny. It's alive and thriving.
Men wonder why women are gold-diggers, but then no one jumps on the guy who was worried that his girlfriend was gold-digging because he is paying for everything and the response was "Does she smoke the meat?" This is why there is nothing wrong with gold-diggers. It's a perfectly consensual relationship between the guy who just wants blowjobs on demand and the woman who just wants diamonds on demand. God bless 'em.
Men wonder why women are gold-diggers, but then no one jumps on the guy who was worried that his girlfriend was gold-digging because he is paying for everything and the response was "Does she smoke the meat?" This is why there is nothing wrong with gold-diggers. It's a perfectly consensual relationship between the guy who just wants blowjobs on demand and the woman who just wants diamonds on demand. God bless 'em.
hiphophippy
Bluelighter
Oh goodness you're all so serious in here.
jazz hands
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Nov 26, 2011
- Messages
- 610
Agreed-- there's nothing wrong with "gold diggers" for the most part. Some cultures even accept gold-digging to the point of having colleges for women to teach them to be better gold-diggers (China). I've been with Chinese gold-digging women before and I honestly found the relationships to be more genuine than with some white American non-gold digging girls I've been with. It works for me (a guy)... YMMV.
MyFinalRest
Bluelighter
Now hold on there! You automatically assume that I must be advocating some other extreme!?! You know I'm not saying that women should seek someone who is insecure etc etc etc.
Sexist? For real... people will jump on you here with all sorts of insults simply for not agreeing with their particular view of things!
Hey Coffee, that's being rude as hell. What the hell is wrong with you? I don't tell people not to read your posts. That's a guy that loves starting shit and "stirring the pot" so to speak. Or, is this your way of "hitting on Fawkes" lol.
I'm only saying that I'd rather women acknowledge other qualities in me like generosity, kindness, gentleness, lovingness, devotion, compassion, sympathy etc.
I would want men to seek similar traits in women as well, and I'm no "sexist" spokesperson for some "boys' club."
My leadership, assertiveness, achievement, ambition, wealth, motivation etc. IMO kind of lie outside the domain of "love" and more in other parts of life that are really my business as long as I can afford to do my part. I'm certainly no rich man, but I work hard and take care of myself and if you actually knew something about me, you would know that I can be quite the go-getter and certainly don't take shit from anybody that fucks with me. I win my fist fights and all that too, but that's not what I want a woman to see in me.
I don't see how I could be misogynistic? I hope you really are giving me the benifit of the doubt, Fawkes. All I'm saying is don't mistake kindness as weakness. I'm also saying you need more than confidence, wealth, status, and ambition to make love work...duh! I want to be kind and generous to my girlfriends. I don't want to be thought of as weak for doing nice things or letting her make decisions in the relationship.
I also don't want to be thought of as "inferior" or something ridiculous like that for not being some jack-ass "golden boy" who's in the local newspaper everyday. Certainly there are so many other traits that are more important than one's social standing?
In love relationships, you will see plenty of each other's weaknesses and shortcomings, no matter how fucking "great" you are, and you have to be there for each other when someone falls on tough times. If your relationship is built on things like narcissistic personality traits like "confidence" "self-esteem" "social standing" alone, then your going to feel some serious disappointment when you realize the other person has weaknesses and that the rain falls on us all some time or another.
Don't enjoy it too much Lysis.
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Jean-Paul
Bluelighter
hopelessly hard. i fall for the beautiful, angry loner types.
my last boyfriend i haven't spoken to in over a month because he is in jail. i didn't even know where he was until his family member sent me a message on facebook. he's a half-mexican street magician (i know...) and drinks cough syrup all the time (i know...) and he's GORRRRGEOUSSSSSSSS like prettier than i am.
my ex is an alcoholic who lives with his family at the age of 32. BUT HE'S REALLY INTELLIGENT AND TALENTED. and talks about how much he hates people all the time. which i like.
i've also had 2 rehab romances.
my last boyfriend i haven't spoken to in over a month because he is in jail. i didn't even know where he was until his family member sent me a message on facebook. he's a half-mexican street magician (i know...) and drinks cough syrup all the time (i know...) and he's GORRRRGEOUSSSSSSSS like prettier than i am.
my ex is an alcoholic who lives with his family at the age of 32. BUT HE'S REALLY INTELLIGENT AND TALENTED. and talks about how much he hates people all the time. which i like.
i've also had 2 rehab romances.
well, you *did* say that if a woman preferred qualities in men like confidence and ambition (among others), you take it to mean she doesn't possess those qualities herself. which i think is unfair and could be taken as a rather sexist statement. in contrast, if a man said he wanted a confident, ambitious woman, i can't imagine anyone (especially you) saying that he must lack those qualities himself.
Or, is this your way of "hitting on Fawkes" lol.
please say it's true!
of course. and, this would be a very different conversation if it would have been obvious that that's what you meant.
additionally, i think those qualities overlap attributes like confidence, ambition and self-assuredness. for instance, someone who is truly confident and has good leadership skills doesn't belittle, berate or assault people - they don't walk around with a chip on their shoulder - they lend a hand when someone needs it, respect people that deserve it and encourage others who are down. the reason being is that they're happy and confident in themselves and their abilities; they aren't threatened by the muscles or successes of someone else because, for lack of a much better phrase, they know they got it goin' on.
i'd hope no one would confuse being a secure, kind person for an insecure doormat.
feeling certain of yourself and your abilities is not narcissistic.
having a healthy view of yourself is also not narcissistic.
yes, selecting a mate because they are a prominent or high-class figure, especially if you're looking for a loving relationship, is extraordinarily superficial. but, as Lysis and jazz hands said, some people like that sort of relationship and as long as all parties are honest with each other, to each their own.
CoffeeDrinker
Bluelighter
Now hold on there! You automatically assume that I must be advocating some other extreme!?! You know I'm not saying that women should seek someone who is insecure etc etc etc.
Sexist? For real... people will jump on you here with all sorts of insults simply for not agreeing with their particular view of things!
Hey Coffee, that's being rude as hell. What the hell is wrong with you? I don't tell people not to read your posts. That's a guy that loves starting shit and "stirring the pot" so to speak. Or, is this your way of "hitting on Fawkes" lol.
I'm only saying that I'd rather women acknowledge other qualities in me like generosity, kindness, gentleness, lovingness, devotion, compassion, sympathy etc.
I would want men to seek similar traits in women as well, and I'm no "sexist" spokesperson for some "boys' club."
My leadership, assertiveness, achievement, ambition, wealth, motivation etc. IMO kind of lie outside the domain of "love" and more in other parts of life that are really my business as long as I can afford to do my part. I'm certainly no rich man, but I work hard and take care of myself and if you actually knew something about me, you would know that I can be quite the go-getter and certainly don't take shit from anybody that fucks with me. I win my fist fights and all that too, but that's not what I want a woman to see in me.
I don't see how I could be misogynistic? I hope you really are giving me the benifit of the doubt, Fawkes. All I'm saying is don't mistake kindness as weakness. I'm also saying you need more than confidence, wealth, status, and ambition to make love work...duh! I want to be kind and generous to my girlfriends. I don't want to be thought of as weak for doing nice things or letting her make decisions in the relationship.
I also don't want to be thought of as "inferior" or something ridiculous like that for not being some jack-ass "golden boy" who's in the local newspaper everyday. Certainly there are so many other traits that are more important than one's social standing?
In love relationships, you will see plenty of each other's weaknesses and shortcomings, no matter how fucking "great" you are, and you have to be there for each other when someone falls on tough times. If your relationship is built on things like narcissistic personality traits like "confidence" "self-esteem" "social standing" alone, then your going to feel some serious disappointment when you realize the other person has weaknesses and that the rain falls on us all some time or another.
Don't enjoy it too much Lysis.
Aye, dios mio...
MyFinalRest
Bluelighter
^What the hell is still your problem Coffee? Either write something of substance or stop wasting space quoting my post. Actually, the best thing you could do is STFU and learn something about being a human being from me!
Ok, I should have been much more clear. I get suspicious when things like "confidence" etc. are the FIRST traits or the ONLY traits mentioned by women. People, IMO, (men and women) that tend to place a lot of emphasis on concepts like confidence, ambition, self-esteem, and social standing with little or no mention of the other desirable traits such as trust, devotion, compassion etc. tend to be lacking in real substance and are not able to handle the intimacy of a real relationship. Those types that emphasize wealth, ambition, and social standing first also come off as selfish and shallow.
There is a key trait that I find desirable and essential for civilazation, and it's called humility. Lacking at least a few grains of confidence shows that a person is still trying to improve themselves and become a better person all the time. But, I agree, one shouldn't be threatened by any one else's successes or should feel inferior about it, but this "Pick-Up Artist" and "Dating Advice" culture is making people feel threatened and anxious about what they can't do. They make good money off of this shit and lure people in with these "fear tactics."
As to whether I feel "I've got it going on"? Naturally, sometimes I do, sometimes I don't. However, no matter what, people shouldn't go around saying shit like "Yeah girl, I gotz it going on yo!" in real life. People like that sound like real jackass fools.
I also certainly don't want a girl who is just waiting for me to "slip up" and "write me off" as not being good enough. We all make mistakes. The key thing is learning from them!
Some people say the only thing "truly certain" in this world is "uncertainty." It takes a sort of "confidence" you could say to "handle the truth" that very little in this world, even one's own abilities, are truly guranteed to succeed.
superficial you say? no doubt about it.
I'd like to apologize to Lysis for being a bit "rough" in a previous post, but...she herself says she falls short on money from time to time, likes to stay home - alone too, has serious trouble feeling comfortable with other people, especially men, as she recently said, is "very shy IRL", she won't even try to enjoy herself on a "first date", and obviously she isn't a leading member of the Ft. Lauderdale community. So why does she keep saying she wants a man totally opposite of her?
She should go for a guy who is a bit insecure, shy, homebody who likes to spend "alone time" playing World of Warcraft, and who isn't particularly much of a guy with astounding "social ambitions." People should find people who "match" them and realize that "walking over people" who are, in fact, much like themselves, won't really make you feel good in life.
Ok, I should have been much more clear. I get suspicious when things like "confidence" etc. are the FIRST traits or the ONLY traits mentioned by women. People, IMO, (men and women) that tend to place a lot of emphasis on concepts like confidence, ambition, self-esteem, and social standing with little or no mention of the other desirable traits such as trust, devotion, compassion etc. tend to be lacking in real substance and are not able to handle the intimacy of a real relationship. Those types that emphasize wealth, ambition, and social standing first also come off as selfish and shallow.
Have fun with that. Coffee is a total creep with lots of issues!
And, this would have been a very different conversation if you didn't assume I was some sort of "sexist" who thinks that there should be some disparity between men and women.
There is a key trait that I find desirable and essential for civilazation, and it's called humility. Lacking at least a few grains of confidence shows that a person is still trying to improve themselves and become a better person all the time. But, I agree, one shouldn't be threatened by any one else's successes or should feel inferior about it, but this "Pick-Up Artist" and "Dating Advice" culture is making people feel threatened and anxious about what they can't do. They make good money off of this shit and lure people in with these "fear tactics."
As to whether I feel "I've got it going on"? Naturally, sometimes I do, sometimes I don't. However, no matter what, people shouldn't go around saying shit like "Yeah girl, I gotz it going on yo!" in real life. People like that sound like real jackass fools.
I also certainly don't want a girl who is just waiting for me to "slip up" and "write me off" as not being good enough. We all make mistakes. The key thing is learning from them!
Yeah but, constantly thinking about yourself and your abilities or other people's abilities and all that stuff is narcissistic. The word "confidence" is plastered all over the web. It seems like 10 years ago (I'm about your age Fawkes) people weren't intensely analyzing themselves and their "confidence" levels because they were actually going out and having a good time before people in pop dating culture decided to drop this grand "anxiety bomb" on people and make them dwell on themselves in very unhealthy ways.
Some people say the only thing "truly certain" in this world is "uncertainty." It takes a sort of "confidence" you could say to "handle the truth" that very little in this world, even one's own abilities, are truly guranteed to succeed.
superficial you say? no doubt about it.
I'd like to apologize to Lysis for being a bit "rough" in a previous post, but...she herself says she falls short on money from time to time, likes to stay home - alone too, has serious trouble feeling comfortable with other people, especially men, as she recently said, is "very shy IRL", she won't even try to enjoy herself on a "first date", and obviously she isn't a leading member of the Ft. Lauderdale community. So why does she keep saying she wants a man totally opposite of her?
She should go for a guy who is a bit insecure, shy, homebody who likes to spend "alone time" playing World of Warcraft, and who isn't particularly much of a guy with astounding "social ambitions." People should find people who "match" them and realize that "walking over people" who are, in fact, much like themselves, won't really make you feel good in life.
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MyFinalRest
Bluelighter
Wow, that was a long post...hopefully that's "the post to end all posts!"
hiphophippy
Bluelighter
nope