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Withdrawal ?

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Weed has a very mild withdrawal, the only thing that really gets to me is that im not able to eat properly for about 4 days, food just doesn't seem appealing to me, looks somewhar grey (I get that too the day after MDMA when even the tastiest steak looks like a puddled mesh from the worst cafeteria in the world.

Sleeping can get a bit hard too but usually that regulates itself as I wont get much sleep the first night my body takes it back in the second night and i'm back in a normal sleep cycle from then on.
But its not some kind of crazy insomnia its just like you drank an espresso at 8pm because you forgot you will be sleeping in a few hours..
 
Jibult said:
[TL;DR at bottom, though you really should read the whole post to get a feel for the last bit of this]

Okay, ignoring all posts but the OP, I'd like you to ponder this situation for a moment, Badstones. I'll even use myself as a personal example.

Let's say I go on one of my normal smoking binges. That's about an ounce of loud a week, spread out evenly so that I don't run out until the paycheck rolls in and I can afford to replenish my dwindling stash. This goes on for about 7-8 months, and then, for whatever reason, I decide to take a break.

The first night isn't so bad. I just pop a few Unisom, let my head hit the pillow and it's off to Dream Land. The second day and night is the killer for me, though. I wake up irritable because I find that I can't remember my dreams. After my shower, I won't be able to eat food for several hours without feeling extremely nauseous and, on more than one occasion, throwing up because my stomach's in such upheaval. As I drive to work, I can't think of anything but how nice it would be to smoke right that second. Once I get to work, things are relatively normal until lunchtime, aside from my out-of-character irritability and impatience. Lunch rolls by and I'm debating on whether or not food is a good idea-- my stomach is still queasy and, frankly, I really don't have an appetite. My brain says it needs food while my stomach is sitting there like, "FUCK FOOD!" Work creeps by, still relatively normal but colored with abnormal outbursts and an antisocial change in demeanor. I get home, eat about 1/5th of the caloric intake I would normally have from a single meal and then realize my stomach can't take any more food. Chill for about an hour and then it's off to exercise-- 12 miles cycling, weight training session, and then a 2-mile walk with my dogs as a cool-down. It goes fairly smoothly except for the fact that I notice I'm sweating a ridiculous amount for the physical strain of my activity choice. After my shower, I notice I'm still sweating. I grab a towel to keep near me to keep the sweat from soaking my clothes. 3 hours later I have to take another shower because the sweating just won't fucking stop and I refuse to lay in bed soaking wet. Planning ahead, I pop my sleeping pills now (75mg diphenhydramine) so that they'll kick in about the time I'm getting out of the shower and fully-clothed. I hop in the shower and 30min later I'm getting into bed, expecting the Unisom to kick in any second now. 30 more minutes go by and I'm still wide awake with no TV, no music, just a fan for white noise and a pitch black room. I take 2 more sleeping pills, almost ensuring a quick transition from awake to asleep. This time while I wait, I watch a little TV. Most likely Conan because that's always on when I go to bed. I get to the end of the show and I'm still wide the fuck awake and getting pissed off because I'm still sweating and I can feel the bedsheets absorbing more and more of the shit. I pop one more sleeping pill, upping the total to 6 (or 150mg) in the span of about 2 hours. I turn the TV off and return to the complete darkness that failed to bring me to sleep earlier. After laying in bed with my eyes shut for another hour and a half, I realize there's no point in even trying to sleep right now and do one of two things: I either wake up and dedicate the rest of the night to staying awake no matter what the circumstances are, or I grab another 75mg-100mg of Unisom and go for the killshot. Regardless of which I choose, I'm going to feel fucking terrible the next day when the bullshit starts all over again, only tomorrow it'll be worse because I won't have the adequate amount of rest that I faced today with. Repeat for 7-14 days, with slightly less intense symptoms than the day before for each consecutive day.



TL;DR


Now, I'm not saying that weed is capable of physical addiction (it might be, it might not be-- I really don't know), I just know that my mental addiction/dependency on weed manifests itself in physical symptoms like sweating, insomnia (wait, is insomnia physical or mental? uhh... I'ma just chalk it up to physical unless someone can shed some light on that), and nausea. Saying it's "all in my head" is bullshit, because my head is obviously causing other parts of my body to physically act a fool on my candy ass.

I mean, that's just my perspective and a little insight into what the first two weeks of cold-turkey-quitting is like for myself. Don't get me wrong, though, I'm not comparing sweating, insomnia and nausea to the throes that other addictions can put you in (I've been addicted to alprazolam on several occasions and I can honestly say the WDs from weed were a cakewalk compared to the crippling bullshit I went through every time my script would run out)... I'm just saying that physical symptoms of marijuana withdrawal exist. I go through them. Just because you don't experience them doesn't mean they don't exist. What's that awesome Pulp Fiction quote? Something like:






$0.02
Click to expand...

I am not trying to say that for some MJ isnt a tough thing to kick, simply that it cannot be compared to heroin/benzo/alcohol when quitting. You do anything enough and you are going to experience adverse effects from stopping. I still don't believe that it causes withdrawal from being removed from your system. I could be wrong, but there just isn't enough people out there hurting and giving up a 20,000 dollar car for 10% the value in pot to get "Right" again.

-Sunshine.
 
I made this post in TDS a while ago and it addresses this issue, so I'll re-post it here:

Roger&Me said:
These threads annoy me because people seldom present any evidence to back up their claims. You just end up with a bunch of people incensed by the very notion of cannabis withdrawal, and they go on to loudly voice their opinion that cannabis withdrawal is a phantom condition or massive exaggeration, despite the fact that their opinions are based only on a very small body of anecdotal evidence.

Additionally, threads like this will inevitably culminate in someone throwing out the age-old cliche that cannabis addiction is "psychological, not physical", despite the fact that negative feedback and receptor internalization accounting for tolerance and dependence in the endocannabinoid system is an issue that has been thoroughly explored by pharmacologists. But, c'mon, you don't have to be a damn scientist to understand that when you ingest a substance that substitutes for endogenous ligands, your body will produce less of those endogenous ligands as a result! This is a physical change that happens to induce tolerance and withdrawal, there's nothing "psychological" about it. (Really, I could go on to critique the entire notion that there is somehow a fundamental difference between the physical body and the psyche: the psyche being a direct product of physical, neurochemical processes).

In contrast to these unsupported claims, the medical literature has described the cannabis withdrawal syndrome in depth, and there have even been several papers published recently that explore pharmacotherapy for cannabis withdrawal. The medical community recognizes the problem as a legitimate one. The bottom line is that in some individuals, cannabis withdrawal is a medically significant problem.

The real issue here is the most people will never consume enough cannabis to induce a medically significant withdrawal event, most cases of significant withdrawal are present in people who have consumed multiple grams of high-quality cannabis daily for years at a time. I think one of the main reason that so many people doubt the existence of cannabis withdrawal is that they haven't actually smoked a lot of weed, they just think they have: an eighth ounce of nugs per week, or even an eighth ounce every few days, is not enough to induce withdrawal. You need to smoke about that much every day for withdrawal to become a really obvious problem.

Here is a highly abridged list of the current literature, for all those who doubt me on this issue:

The cannabis withdrawal syndrome
By Budney Alan J; Hughes John R
From Current opinion in psychiatry(2006),19(3),233-8.

Cannabis and dependence
By Swift, Wendy; Hall, Wayne
Edited by Grotenhermen, Franjo; Russo, Ethan
From Cannabis and Cannabinoids(2002),257-268.

Review of the validity and significance of cannabis withdrawal syndrome
By Budney Alan J; Hughes John R; Moore Brent A; Vandrey Ryan
From The American journal of psychiatry(2004),161(11),1967-77.

A review of the published literature into cannabis withdrawal symptoms in human users
By Smith Neil T
From Addiction (Abingdon, England)(2002),97(6),621-32.

Withdrawal sequelae to cannabis use
By Rohr J M; Skowlund S W; Martin T E
From The International journal of the addictions(1989),24(7),627-31.

Oral delta-9-tetrahydrocannabinol suppresses cannabis withdrawal symptoms
By Budney Alan J; Vandrey Ryan G; Hughes John R; Moore Brent A; Bahrenburg Betsy
From Drug and alcohol dependence(2007),86(1),22-9.

Pharmacotherapy and psychotherapy in cannabis withdrawal and dependence
By Benyamina, Amine; Lecacheux, Marie; Blecha, Lisa; Reynaud, Michel; Lukasiewcz, Michael
From Expert Review of Neurotherapeutics(2008 ),8 (3),479-491.

Increasing treatment options for cannabis dependence: A review of potential pharmacotherapies
By Hart, Carl L.
From Drug and Alcohol Dependence(2005),80(2),147-159.
Click to expand...
 
fair post roger, but is jibult's description the extent of the situation? oh poor you, going to work (!), riding 12 miles (!), which just wouldn't happen on a nice opiate wd.
 
Badstones said:
I am not trying to say that for some MJ isnt a tough thing to kick, simply that it cannot be compared to heroin/benzo/alcohol when quitting.
Click to expand...



I agree with you wholeheartedly on that point.



i against i said:
fair post roger, but is jibult's description the extent of the situation? oh poor you, going to work (!), riding 12 miles (!), which just wouldn't happen on a nice opiate wd.
Click to expand...


Did I ask for sympathy? You seem to be crippled by your inability to understand just exactly why somebody posts what they do. You're the cynical type, I think, who immediately think I'm looking for support, sympathy, empathy and compassion. I don't fiend for your understanding, i against i. I honestly don't even like you all that much, what with your ineptitude and closed-mindedness. Keep trying to look cool by acting "holier-than-thou," I'll keep doing my thing. I have no doubt that your ignorance will shout out ill-conceived replies to more of my posts in the future, so I guess I'll see you then.
 
no i just think you're a pseudo-intelligent twat.

i wish canibus withdrawal was worse.


Well enjoy your infraction....-Neko
 
Last edited by a moderator:
i against i said:
i just think you're a twat.
Click to expand...


We share opinions of each other, then.



i against i said:
no i just think you're a pseudo-intelligent twat.

i wish canibus withdrawal was worse.
Click to expand...


Way to ninja-edit. I like how you constantly have to rethink your opinions and posts when you approach me on BL. You should try rough drafts or something. Constantly returning and adding to previous posts is the sign of a slow mind.

"Pseudo-intelligent?" What makes you think that? Do I use words that hurt your think-box? Is my use of impeccable capitalization on the internet intimidating to you? I get it, you just don't like the thought of a Yank' having more control over the English language than a Brit', right? It's okay, dude, I tutor for a small fee. Send me a PM and we can get shit rolling on how you can work on not sounding like a 13-year-old with a grudge in written word.
 
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i against i said:
fair post roger, but is jibult's description the extent of the situation? oh poor you, going to work (!), riding 12 miles (!), which just wouldn't happen on a nice opiate wd.
Click to expand...

You can go to work and ride a bike while withdrawing from nicotine, as well... still, I don't see people jumping in and comparing it to heroin withdrawal every time somebody says its hard for them to quit cigarettes (which seems to be the case with any mention of cannabis withdrawal around here). A drug doesn't have to cause pants-shitting level withdrawal to still be extremely hard to quit due to unpleasant physical symptoms. I've been through both opiate and benzo withdrawal, and I still think cannabis withdrawal is a very shitty experience. Its not like knowing that there are worse withdrawal syndromes out there makes the experience suck any less.
 
Roger&Me said:
These threads annoy me because people seldom present any evidence to back up their claims. You just end up with a bunch of people incensed by the very notion of cannabis withdrawal, and they go on to loudly voice their opinion that cannabis withdrawal is a phantom condition or massive exaggeration, despite the fact that their opinions are based only on a very small body of anecdotal evidence.

Additionally, threads like this will inevitably culminate in someone throwing out the age-old cliche that cannabis addiction is "psychological, not physical", despite the fact that negative feedback and receptor internalization accounting for tolerance and dependence in the endocannabinoid system is an issue that has been thoroughly explored by pharmacologists. But, c'mon, you don't have to be a damn scientist to understand that when you ingest a substance that substitutes for endogenous ligands, your body will produce less of those endogenous ligands as a result! This is a physical change that happens to induce tolerance and withdrawal, there's nothing "psychological" about it. (Really, I could go on to critique the entire notion that there is somehow a fundamental difference between the physical body and the psyche: the psyche being a direct product of physical, neurochemical processes).

In contrast to these unsupported claims, the medical literature has described the cannabis withdrawal syndrome in depth, and there have even been several papers published recently that explore pharmacotherapy for cannabis withdrawal. The medical community recognizes the problem as a legitimate one. The bottom line is that in some individuals, cannabis withdrawal is a medically significant problem.

The real issue here is the most people will never consume enough cannabis to induce a medically significant withdrawal event, most cases of significant withdrawal are present in people who have consumed multiple grams of high-quality cannabis daily for years at a time. I think one of the main reason that so many people doubt the existence of cannabis withdrawal is that they haven't actually smoked a lot of weed, they just think they have: an eighth ounce of nugs per week, or even an eighth ounce every few days, is not enough to induce withdrawal. You need to smoke about that much every day for withdrawal to become a really obvious problem.

Here is a highly abridged list of the current literature, for all those who doubt me on this issue:

The cannabis withdrawal syndrome
By Budney Alan J; Hughes John R
From Current opinion in psychiatry(2006),19(3),233-8.

Cannabis and dependence
By Swift, Wendy; Hall, Wayne
Edited by Grotenhermen, Franjo; Russo, Ethan
From Cannabis and Cannabinoids(2002),257-268.

Review of the validity and significance of cannabis withdrawal syndrome
By Budney Alan J; Hughes John R; Moore Brent A; Vandrey Ryan
From The American journal of psychiatry(2004),161(11),1967-77.

A review of the published literature into cannabis withdrawal symptoms in human users
By Smith Neil T
From Addiction (Abingdon, England)(2002),97(6),621-32.

Withdrawal sequelae to cannabis use
By Rohr J M; Skowlund S W; Martin T E
From The International journal of the addictions(1989),24(7),627-31.

Oral delta-9-tetrahydrocannabinol suppresses cannabis withdrawal symptoms
By Budney Alan J; Vandrey Ryan G; Hughes John R; Moore Brent A; Bahrenburg Betsy
From Drug and alcohol dependence(2007),86(1),22-9.

Pharmacotherapy and psychotherapy in cannabis withdrawal and dependence
By Benyamina, Amine; Lecacheux, Marie; Blecha, Lisa; Reynaud, Michel; Lukasiewcz, Michael
From Expert Review of Neurotherapeutics(2008 ),8 (3),479-491.

Increasing treatment options for cannabis dependence: A review of potential pharmacotherapies
By Hart, Carl L.
From Drug and Alcohol Dependence(2005),80(2),147-159.
Click to expand...

This is wonderful Rodger, thank you for sharing this. Im keeping this post on hand to quote when ever other people bring up this issue, and trust me, it gets brought up a lot!

Again its important for people to remember that the amount of pot one needs to smoke daily to have WD issues is far beyond that of even the average heavy smoker. And for long periods of time.
 
i against i said:
fair post roger, but is jibult's description the extent of the situation? oh poor you, going to work (!), riding 12 miles (!), which just wouldn't happen on a nice opiate wd.
Click to expand...

i against i said:
no i just think you're a pseudo-intelligent twat.

i wish canibus withdrawal was worse.
Click to expand...



i against i said:
enjoy your massive balls.
Click to expand...

I hope you enjoyed making yourself look like a fool. Your behavior is the kind that helps misinformation and risks spread. Enjoy the temp ban.

And yes. I think we are done here. Though I'm kinda wanting to start an offical Cannabis Withdrawal thread with that post of rogers to start it.

/closed
 
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