Withdrawal ?

[Badstones]

I just saw on another area of the forum someone say that telling people that Cannabis has no WD is mis-information and not true... Now I don't know about you, but every single person I know who has ever used something like heroin for any decent amount of time has gotten hooked, however this is the first time I have ever heard anyone say that about MJ. I myself smoke, and have smoked for years, but if I am broke or just basically need to keep my money for something else then I just don't buy weed. Suffer from sleep problems the first 2 days or so (and very mild ones at that) and then back to normal.

To me, if MJ caused WD then it would be common among all users, not just one person here and there. I think this person is confusing his/her own mental weakness towards MJ (or not having MJ) as WD. I know people who get physically sick when they can't get a pair of jeans they want (family member is a shop a holic) but I know without a doubt that there is no way for them to actually be physically dependent on buying clothes because there is nothing introduced to the body.

So who out there thinks MJ is actually causing your body to build up dependencies on it, and who thinks it is just that persons need to use the drug that is causing them to manifest all these symptoms.

This person also said that Mary jane had more negative of an impact on their life then heroin use did. I am absolutely confounded, so help me out here guys.. Am I being an ignorant, short sided jerk here, or am I right to feel so flabbergasted ?

Thanks

-Sunshine.

 

[i against i]

smoked weed all day everyday for a while, stop no problems. heroin for a few days, stop is bad times for me.

 

[Badstones]

Same here.

-Sunshine.

 

[i against i]

i'm not saying it doesn't exist, or that mental addiction to weed doesn't exist, i've seen friends be fiending hard for it and flipping out if they don't have weed. i don't do any of that bullshit if i can't get h. yea, i feel like shit but don't turn into an angry asshole. cravings afterwards yea i get pissed, but not in an asshole way in people's faces. maybe it's not the weed, maybe it's just people. i don't mean to belittle anyone's experiences or sound arrogant, but for me, having been in both places, it just seems, the two "dependencies" compared, weed is laughable.

 

[Badstones]

Well I do believe that weed is addictive for some, but WD from physical dependency.... Sounds like a crock of shit to me. I could be wrong though, that's why I started this thread, to get a broader outlook then just me and my group of friends.
No one ever sucked dick for marijuana.

-Sunshine.

 

[squidhead]

I'm in 100% agreement, Badstones. I've been a daily toker for 43 yrs (with a few days here & there when I had none, but it's been awhile since I had none)...had to get emergency gall-bladder surgery last Sept 2011 & was hospitalized for 9 days. Had no adverse effects when I didn't toke for about 3 weeks. I came home from the hospital, felt great...but still stayed away from tokin for another few weeks. Didn't pull at me in the least.
It's people who have 'addictive personalities' that claim they're strung-out on weed. I mean, give me a break!! They'd be just as hooked on food, booze, cigs, gambling, etc. or whatever they chose as their vice. Some people just have 0 will-power. The people who even compare heroin to weed are comparing a depth-charge to a firecracker...totally ridiculous!!

 

[SM0K3Y]

Pot doesn't have "Withdrawal" - and I mean zero.

Now your mental dependency on it is different. Pot is just as much a coping drug as others sometimes, and people use it to relax and calm down and when they don't have it they are giant ass holes since they aren't walking around feeling nice and high like usual. That doesn't equal withdrawal.

Weed can only be mentally addicting, but not in the way cocaine and crack are (totally different since there is a mental withdrawal) - the difference is the addiction with pot is just a severe want, a want to be high and feel good instead of feeling normal. After so much time being high, being normal sucks and you don't want to do it. It also helps a lot of people sleep, when I quit smoking pot I had a super hard time falling asleep. It doesnt mean that I'm withdrawalin, it just means that when I smoked pot it was quite easy to pass out, now I actually have to sit there and relax my mind.

There is no such thing as pot withdrawal or pot addiction. All it is, is a severe want. The definition(s) of addiction:



1. Physically and mentally dependent on a particular substance, and unable to stop taking it without incurring adverse effects.
2. Enthusiastically devoted to a particular thing or activity.

Now pertaining to definition #1 - pot has no physical dependency. Also, when you stop taking it, the lack of pot in and of itself doesn't cause adverse effects, it's just the fact that you don't feel good without it. Your body isn't hurting since it doesn't have it's pot, you are just not used to the feeling of being normal.

Definition #2 pertains more so to pot, BUT, it's not the type of addiction we are talking about. If you went by #2, you could be addicted to licking stamps, or some people with OCD could be classified as addicted to turning doorknobs (seems to be a popular one) - it's not quite the same as a "Drug" Addiction.

Also, badstones, just like you said "No one ever sucked dick for marijuana" - I hear that a lot and it's true. If you went without your pot you'd be fine. Dope heads cannot go without their dope.

 

[Badstones]

I completely agree. As someone who has a current opiate/opioid addiction and also smokes pot in the evenings to help with sleep/appetite I couldn't agree more.

-Sunshine.

 

[Badstones]

Also, I am pretty sure this guys thread was completely deleted, not closed, but completely removed with no warning what so ever for stating that marijuana did not cause WD whatsoever. That was my whole point of starting this thread, kind of pissed me off, there is a fine line between harm reduction and idiocy.

-Sunshine.

 

[adder]

Cocaine isn't supposed to be physically addicting, yet people abruptly stopping taking it definitely don't feel all right. And the same goes for a lot of substances after long-term use. It's not meant as a withdrawal just like in case of opioids. But after smoking marihuana for like 2 weeks I can wake up in the morning and feel I'm sweaty, cold, and kind of nervous. It goes away pretty quick but still, the feeling is present. Call it what you want, marihuana can be addictive just like anything else. One can get addicted psychologically to anything.

 

[Badstones]

I never said a word about it not being addictive. You are right, anything can become addictive. I simply meant that there is nothing in MJ that actually comes into your body while you are using it, then when it is stopped you suffer WD from not having. Again, feeling shitty because you are not using a substance that you are addicted to is completely different then being physically dependent on it and suffering WD's because of that.

-Sunshine.

 

[iSTONED]

Cannabis does not cause ANY WITHDRAWALS at all, I know everyone is different.but If your getting "withdrawals" it's all in your head. Try taking some Oxy or Xanax everyday for 5 years (in my case) or even 1 or 2 months and stop, that's withdrawal. Weed doesn't make you wanna kill your self from "withdrawing" all it is, is an mental addiction. No physical addiction. The insomnia is part of a mental issue, not physical.

 

[RobotRipping]

how about the upregulation of cannabinoid receptors?, which would occur from daily smoking. When you quit there's nothing to fill those receptors and you don't feel normal. Also whatever cannabis does (increases apetite, sleep) is sure to have a rebound effect upon quitting that is definitely physical in nature.

It's not bad no, but i think there is a physical basis for the things some people experience upon cessation of chronic cannabis use. I actually just quit cannabis probably a week ago and noticed improvements but i've also experienced the nausea and insomnia from quitting suddenly in the past. There are also physical effects like sweating during the night and vivid dreams which are not entirely psychological in nature.

It's also important to understand the difference between physical dependence (which IMO happens to a small degree with cannabis) and addiction (which can be significant or not in chronic users).

 

[DonStatus]

Yeah I feel the same way, I almost completely quit smoking my usual nightly bats because it was giving me panic attacks. Other then that I really really miss it

 

[nekointheclouds]

Also, badstones, just like you said "No one ever sucked dick for marijuana" - I hear that a lot and it's true. If you went without your pot you'd be fine. Dope heads cannot go without their dope.

lol. I havent heard that one before, but yes, its very true.

And you have summed it up quite well. I think its in no way logical to even compare the physical addictiveness of opiates and benzos and the WDs that people face to the experience of Cannabis addiction. They are really in two different worlds. And I am never surprised when people who have delt with benzo or opiate or even meth addictions get deffensive about and upset when people who are quitting pot start to complain.

 

[squidhead]

I quit booze 9 yrs ago, after 25+ yrs of approximately a 12-pack nightly. I quit cigs 5 yrs ago, after almost 40 yrs of a pack-a-day. I had no problems quitting either 1 of them. I think certain people just have that 'addictive personality' going for them. Doesn't matter if it's hard dope, weed, tobacco, booze, food, gambling, etc, etc....certain types of people will find whatever they're into, extremely difficult to stop doing. It's just a case of 'mind-over-matter'.

 

[CuDLife]

against is right. I only smoke weed and i still know you prolly cant call a weed addiction an addiction when your talking about heroin and coke and that.

But he's very right it only makes you a little irritable if your really fiending it, and i mean really fiending it. You never actually yell your answer to someone cuz your thinkin about weed when they ask you a question

I've blazed everyday multiple times a day for like 2.5 years and only withdrawal i experience are sleeping problems (not withdrawal in my eyes) but i aint gonna lie i'll only toss and turn for 30 minutes before i resort to packin a bowl. But as far as physical symptoms go, you might have the shakes every now and then for like 3 days then you'll be goods, no pain involved just shaking (mainly hands). I've actually heard this can become permanent, but i dont give a fuck

 

[Jibult]

[TL;DR at bottom, though you really should read the whole post to get a feel for the last bit of this]

Okay, ignoring all posts but the OP, I'd like you to ponder this situation for a moment, Badstones. I'll even use myself as a personal example.

Let's say I go on one of my normal smoking binges. That's about an ounce of loud a week, spread out evenly so that I don't run out until the paycheck rolls in and I can afford to replenish my dwindling stash. This goes on for about 7-8 months, and then, for whatever reason, I decide to take a break.

The first night isn't so bad. I just pop a few Unisom, let my head hit the pillow and it's off to Dream Land. The second day and night is the killer for me, though. I wake up irritable because I find that I can't remember my dreams. After my shower, I won't be able to eat food for several hours without feeling extremely nauseous and, on more than one occasion, throwing up because my stomach's in such upheaval. As I drive to work, I can't think of anything but how nice it would be to smoke right that second. Once I get to work, things are relatively normal until lunchtime, aside from my out-of-character irritability and impatience. Lunch rolls by and I'm debating on whether or not food is a good idea-- my stomach is still queasy and, frankly, I really don't have an appetite. My brain says it needs food while my stomach is sitting there like, "FUCK FOOD!" Work creeps by, still relatively normal but colored with abnormal outbursts and an antisocial change in demeanor. I get home, eat about 1/5th of the caloric intake I would normally have from a single meal and then realize my stomach can't take any more food. Chill for about an hour and then it's off to exercise-- 12 miles cycling, weight training session, and then a 2-mile walk with my dogs as a cool-down. It goes fairly smoothly except for the fact that I notice I'm sweating a ridiculous amount for the physical strain of my activity choice. After my shower, I notice I'm still sweating. I grab a towel to keep near me to keep the sweat from soaking my clothes. 3 hours later I have to take another shower because the sweating just won't fucking stop and I refuse to lay in bed soaking wet. Planning ahead, I pop my sleeping pills now (75mg diphenhydramine) so that they'll kick in about the time I'm getting out of the shower and fully-clothed. I hop in the shower and 30min later I'm getting into bed, expecting the Unisom to kick in any second now. 30 more minutes go by and I'm still wide awake with no TV, no music, just a fan for white noise and a pitch black room. I take 2 more sleeping pills, almost ensuring a quick transition from awake to asleep. This time while I wait, I watch a little TV. Most likely Conan because that's always on when I go to bed. I get to the end of the show and I'm still wide the fuck awake and getting pissed off because I'm still sweating and I can feel the bedsheets absorbing more and more of the shit. I pop one more sleeping pill, upping the total to 6 (or 150mg) in the span of about 2 hours. I turn the TV off and return to the complete darkness that failed to bring me to sleep earlier. After laying in bed with my eyes shut for another hour and a half, I realize there's no point in even trying to sleep right now and do one of two things: I either wake up and dedicate the rest of the night to staying awake no matter what the circumstances are, or I grab another 75mg-100mg of Unisom and go for the killshot. Regardless of which I choose, I'm going to feel fucking terrible the next day when the bullshit starts all over again, only tomorrow it'll be worse because I won't have the adequate amount of rest that I faced today with. Repeat for 7-14 days, with slightly less intense symptoms than the day before for each consecutive day.



TL;DR


Now, I'm not saying that weed is capable of physical addiction (it might be, it might not be-- I really don't know), I just know that my mental addiction/dependency on weed manifests itself in physical symptoms like sweating, insomnia (wait, is insomnia physical or mental? uhh... I'ma just chalk it up to physical unless someone can shed some light on that), and nausea. Saying it's "all in my head" is bullshit, because my head is obviously causing other parts of my body to physically act a fool on my candy ass.

I mean, that's just my perspective and a little insight into what the first two weeks of cold-turkey-quitting is like for myself. Don't get me wrong, though, I'm not comparing sweating, insomnia and nausea to the throes that other addictions can put you in (I've been addicted to alprazolam on several occasions and I can honestly say the WDs from weed were a cakewalk compared to the crippling bullshit I went through every time my script would run out)... I'm just saying that physical symptoms of marijuana withdrawal exist. I go through them. Just because you don't experience them doesn't mean they don't exist. What's that awesome Pulp Fiction quote? Something like:

The absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence.

$0.02

 

[PeacePipeChief]

It does have withdrawal in a way , I get agitated easily , cravings and shit , some sleep problems . Sure it's absolutely nothing compared to heroin withdrawals , and I'm not sure if these issues would even count as withdrawals , but they arise from discontinuing use of weed , so that would count as w/d right ? It's just mild psychological withdrawal and don't get me wrong , in no way does weed cause Physical dependence .

 

[Achten]

I think most of the WD symptoms "weed users" experience are in fact tobacco WD's. I had these feelings when I smoked joints back in the days. NOw with the vaporizer I haven't had this since. These feelings come back (albeit slightly) when I try a joint now btw.

That's not to say, weed doesn't do anything with motivation, but the effect is not thàt large.