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Witchcraft/Sorcery

^^ I won't even argue the point, it would be a never-ending argument.

The generic working version of sorcery is the practice of calling upon spirits to work your will.

So, as to the power of sorcery coming from Satan.....

Romans 12:19

"Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord."

Perhaps the most stunning example I can think of is Psalm 109, which calls upon God to set no less than Satan upon your enemies....

Hold not thy peace, O God of my praise;
2 for the mouth of the wicked and the mouth of the deceitful are opened against me:

they have spoken against me with a lying tongue.
3 They compassed me about also with words of hatred;

and fought against me without a cause.
4 For my love they are my adversaries:

but I give myself unto prayer.
5 And they have rewarded me evil for good,

and hatred for my love.
6 Set thou a wicked man over him:

and let Satan stand at his right hand.
7 When he shall be judged, let him be condemned:

and let his prayer become sin.
8 Let his days be few;

and let another take his office. Acts 1.20
9 Let his children be fatherless,

and his wife a widow.
10 Let his children be continually vagabonds, and beg:

let them seek their bread also out of their desolate places.
11 Let the extortioner catch all that he hath;

and let the strangers spoil his labor.
12 Let there be none to extend mercy unto him:

neither let there be any to favor his fatherless children.
13 Let his posterity be cut off;

and in the generation following let their name be blotted out.
14 Let the iniquity of his fathers be remembered with the LORD;

and let not the sin of his mother be blotted out.
15 Let them be before the LORD continually,

that he may cut off the memory of them from the earth.
16 Because that he remembered not to show mercy,

but persecuted the poor and needy man,
that he might even slay the broken in heart.
17 As he loved cursing,

so let it come unto him:
as he delighted not in blessing,
so let it be far from him.
18 As he clothed himself with cursing like as with his garment,

so let it come into his bowels like water,
and like oil into his bones.
19 Let it be unto him as the garment which covereth him,

and for a girdle wherewith he is girded continually.
20 Let this be the reward of mine adversaries from the LORD,

and of them that speak evil against my soul.
21 But do thou for me, O GOD the Lord, for thy name's sake:

because thy mercy is good, deliver thou me.
22 For I am poor and needy,

and my heart is wounded within me.
23 I am gone like the shadow when it declineth:

I am tossed up and down as the locust.
24 My knees are weak through fasting;

and my flesh faileth of fatness.
25 I became also a reproach unto them:

when they looked upon me they shook their heads. Mt. 27.39 · Mk. 15.29
26 Help me, O LORD my God:

O save me according to thy mercy:
27 that they may know that this is thy hand;

that thou, LORD, hast done it.
28 Let them curse, but bless thou:

when they arise, let them be ashamed;
but let thy servant rejoice.
29 Let mine adversaries be clothed with shame;

and let them cover themselves with their own confusion, as with a mantle.
30 I will greatly praise the LORD with my mouth;

yea, I will praise him among the multitude.
31 For he shall stand at the right hand of the poor,

to save him from those that condemn his soul."



Sorry, it's not all love and light, folks......
 
Kahlil Gibran (The Prophet) said " For what is evil but good tortured by its own hunger and thirst"
It is my belief that we are mostly and I mean mostly good. I have a hard time believing there are purely 'bad' or 'evil' persons. Essentially we are all good. Good that perhaps endures some rough patches and loses its way whilst finding the path back to their 'good' self. I don't know. Only how I feel. Maybe our inner thoughts do go out there, hence the importance of positive thoughts.
 
In 1971 work was completed on a collection of detailed reference material which would come to span 8 schools of magic along 5 interwoven planes of reality. A drudgery of masters would follow, forming a group of magic welders in the west. This system was commonly referred to as the D-20 system.
Dedicated, and detail-oriented, followers would study a complex retinue of instruction that would explain how to align with various archetypes in combination with magical items to augment powers and successfully perform spell casting. Ceremonies of this kind were performed in isolated cloisters of tightly knit groups. Demonic attacks were altogether rare. Many possessions seemed to occur when rules were not being strictly obeyed.
Various members of the group made unprecedented advancements in the rudimentary computer systems of the day. These changes continue to impact society in a great number of scientific, technological, and engineering fields and were spurred on by the demand for powerful spreadsheets, probability tables, and true randomization software which require a more capable computational system.
 
pmoseman said:
In 1971 work was completed on a collection of detailed reference material which would come to span 8 schools of magic along 5 interwoven planes of reality. A drudgery of masters would follow, forming a group of magic welders in the west. This system was commonly referred to as the D-20 system.
Dedicated, and detail-oriented, followers would study a complex retinue of instruction that would explain how to align with various archetypes in combination with magical items to augment powers and successfully perform spell casting. Ceremonies of this kind were performed in isolated cloisters of tightly knit groups. Demonic attacks were altogether rare. Many possessions seemed to occur when rules were not being strictly obeyed.
Various members of the group made unprecedented advancements in the rudimentary computer systems of the day. These changes continue to impact society in a great number of scientific, technological, and engineering fields and were spurred on by the demand for powerful spreadsheets, probability tables, and true randomization software which require a more capable computational system.
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Could you provide the name of the group or some link that talks about this?
 
webbykevin said:
But the Christian position makes no sense, for it says in the old testament.."I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things." Isaiah 45:7 - But you will never hear a sermon on that preached from the pulpit.
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Bad translation. In this context its about creating prosperity and disaster.

Other though:
If you agree that there is Christian God, why does bible never talk about any two other powers than His own and Satan's? All the examples in the bible with speaking in tongues, healing, phropecy which were showed in the positive light were done in the power of holy spirit or by Jesus himself from the power from his father.

Bible does talk about a phrophet who didn't have his power from God (Acts 13:7) which makes it pretty obvious that the power was from Satan.
 
I've really started to laugh about John Todd in his older incarnation. He has unlimited knowledge of the occult, and it seems he still really wants to spread some truths, even if he's older and less passionate now. He's just like and older man being satisfied with his money and status, etc. and I can't really work out how sincere he is. Also he has to be much more respectable now, which is kind of boring, as he used to be so unconvential.

But he still has the same humour and makes some brilliant jokes. Like, he once said, "When I was in Freemasonry I had more demons per cubic centimeter than the whole of Mississipi". But I understand he's hired as a form of disinformation agent, or he wouldn't be allowed to stay alive. He makes a lot of Satanic handsigns, like putting two fingers up (for the devil horns) in all kinds of ways, and spreading his fingers out to symbolise the pentacle or five-pointed star of magic.

He also puts up the sign of the all-seeing eye a lot. You know, like the round circle the Beatles used to do, symbolising the pineal gland or the 6th chakra which is supposed to give you real psychic powers. One time he even made the sign with both of his hands then touched the part between his eyebrows where it's supposed to be located. Mmh, and the pyramid sign. It's like a way for him to give a message about who he's working for, but people with no knowledge of these things wouldn't be able to catch it.
 
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The Satanist bible by LaVey goes over pretty well what magik is in a very tongue in cheek way. It's pure psychology.
 
In Africa, witchcraft is everywhere, whether among the rebel cannibal armies of Liberia or in a small village in the Zulu's ancestral land. Christianity, as it has been adapted to the African continent, is largely concerned with witchcraft, and there is some fluidity between becoming a major figure in your local Christian church scene and being regarded as a formidable sorcerer - it's very odd when compared to American Christianity on the whole, although the African Christians certainly use the Bible too, they just interpret it differently and emphasize different things, such as a heavy deference to glossolalia, speaking in tongues. I've heard specifically, apart from Christianity, uncles in Africa are seen as being able to hold some odd power over newly married couples - if they don't approve, they can easily curse the marriage to doom.
 
Morphling said:
There is no such thing as black magic. The term black magic came about to make traditional african practices appear bad and scary. Stop being racist. The term "baneful magic" is acceptable.

Hoodoo is not a secret initiatory lineage.

Technically, sorcery refers to the practice of coercing or otherwise dealing with spirits to accomplish things for you. Other practices would be more 'witchcraft-y."

Meh. Sorry to get cranky :p
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This.

My ex was a member of the O.T.O. & was quite high in their rankings, I have also had dealings with members of the Temple of Set but I didn't like the way the person used to pump me full of acid then try to"sell" their ideas to me. Things turned quite "dark" with said person & I left his company after 1 night where I really got scared I wouldn't be alive by the time the sun came up.

Personally for me I like & read into chaos magick & old English "magic" fueled by the use of plants etc, my old avatar was the broken cross / crows foot ;)

For several years I was well into all types of things but I had an two events with my ex that scared me, one was huge red "darts" of energy shooting around the flat & the electric in the flat went mad & also a few days later some photos were taken with huge orbs which followed me for days on end & faces could be seen in them.
Since then I turned my back on this kind of stuff, my advice is don't mess with stuff you don't understand.

omnipresenthuman said:
In Africa, witchcraft is everywhere, whether among the rebel cannibal armies of Liberia or in a small village in the Zulu's ancestral land. .
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I don't think General butt naked was into it, but I have seen their version of "nation sacks" when they go into war.

I used to know a guy from Haiti who's mother was a well known user of witchcraft & used to swear he had seen her "fly" into the air, I have no reason to call him a lier as everything else he said turned out to be true & when I questioned him on this claime once he burst into tears & said it scared him too much & this was a guy in his mid 20's.
Take from that what you will.
 
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I think the "Secret Teachings of All Ages" sums the subject up pretty well. It's written by someone with great experience with all kinds of magic, and explains things like how it works to conjure up "genies", or demons to do your bidding.

He says there are demons for all kinds of abilities you could want, and how they can be conjured up, like some has to be called on 2 times and others 3 times for them to appear. Although I doubt the average person would have much success or even be able to see them or communicate wiith them if they if they showd up. They might still be an undetectable bad influence, though, like surrounding you with negative energy as you have actuallly called upon them with your free will, or otherwise they aren't allowed to come (like calling for the help of Jesus would have to be a free will choice).

But he says when you get into a relationship with such a being you always end up losing more than you gain. In the beginning they will make you believe that you can control them, but with time it becomes apparent that this is not the case, and they end up becoming more and more like slaves to the demon who tries to get as much out of them if they can.

He says if you pursue it, it usually ends up with them demanding some kind of blood sacrifice or horrible ritual to appease them and bring you into their family. I think they work mostly to create more evil and darkness on Earth. And there are only demons or evil spirits who are involved with these kind of things. You can't conjure up angels or good spirits because they will be involved with more constructive work and be of service to creation.

So either way it seems like a losing situation on the practitioner's part.
 
Well, the average person would probably get nailed to the wall, if they could actually manage to call something up, which is rather unlikely, as that requires a certain skill set....

Of course you can evoke angels, people have been doing it for a few thousand years; see Qabala, the Ars Paulina, et al...
 
Ubiquitous thaumaturgy all round no matter which faith or belief, if it offers goodness to one's heart, I'm all for it.
Old school earthy paganism has been victimized over the last two thousand years or so. What makes me go 'hhmm' is the fact that so few faiths involve the importance of harmonizing with our natural environments. It's almost like if you still use herbs and worship the Earth, your considered a witch. Well thank goodness we're not getting burned anymore.
 
Morphling said:
Of course you can evoke angels, people have been doing it for a few thousand years; see Qabala, the Ars Paulina, et al...
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I invoke angels with my heart, for healing and higher inspiration all the time, but I don't do any rituals connected to it.

I'm aware there's a form of white or divine right-path magic but this wouldn't be so attractive for most people. For one thing, it requires a certain purity and level of consciousness. Then it works more as a prayer for things you really need in you're life, that are in your best interest, and also deservant of. They can't be controlled or made to become your slaves like the spirits called on by sorcery or black magic. What they do for you will come willingly out of love.

They won't do anything they don't approve of or find in your best interest. And they won't bring you money or wordly power or all those things that are lusted after by many. So I think many just find there is little use of them and decides to call on demons or dark spirits instead. Not everyone wants to live a pure, spiritual life, striving for higher consciousness, without demanding more than what they give to the world, etc. On the contrary, that is why many rather turn to black magic. White magic might as well be explained as living a perfectly good life, like Jesus did, to get all the divine support and intervention you would want.

The kind of "magic" angels do is more about blessing, healing, and bringing positive spiritual energy into the world to bring it closer to heaven. That's what I was doing in some form in my Atlantean incarnations as a white priestess (Atlantis had both black and white priests, and even a form of gray priests, who followed the middle path.) Just trying to bring in positive energy so it wouldn't all fall apart. That worked for some time but eventually, because in the end there was so much more negative energy being generated than positive energy, it was brought down.

I don't think any civilization will be allowed to exist once it contains 51% of more of negative energy. The Prime Creator, or highest God, is all of good and positive energy and has set some limits for himself about how much negative energy he will allow in his experiment with a creation of polarity. In other words, he won't allow us to turn a world into a complete hell and still prosper.
 
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junegreenjeans said:
So called Witches were burned too.
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Yes, but not typically. Some were hung and then burned. Burning was not standard practice, however. That is a myth. I am a practitioner of traditional English Craft and Southern Conjure, so my knowledge of this is pretty good, I've been doing it 20 years.

Ninae, yes you are right. Angels tend to give you what you need rather than what you want, which isn't always pleasant. They can be a lot fucking scarier than any demon tho. See: avenging angels.
 
Wiki said:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_people_executed_for_witchcraft

Common methods of execution for convicted witches were hanging, drowning and burning. Burning was often favoured, particularly in Europe, as it was considered a more painful way to die.[5] Prosecutors in the American colonies generally preferred hanging in cases of witchcraft.[5]
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Just FYI.
 
In Scotland, certain parts of Europe, yes, but it was not common practice. They weren't even burning witches, they were burning Christians. The notion of the Burning Times and all that shite has been soundly academically refuted. Rediculous.
 
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