JeffreyDahmer said:
With respect, you're beginning to condescend and I don't think that's constructive. Call me crazy but this is a discussion forum and we're trying to have a discussion.
I, personally, am trying to understand the problem properly and why I see 'my answer' in such black and white terms and, further, why I'm unable to see the other side's point of view. I sincerely want to understand it.
I suggest, again respectfully, if you are becoming this exasperated and you feel like you're flogging a dead horse you simply withdraw from the discussion for now?
Jeffrey, I admire you and understand exactly where you are at the moment.
I to was getting very frustrated by this as I just couldnt get my head arround it but figured I wanted to at least understand the others point of view.
This became impossible at History Channel because the people there were basically not interested in helping, only in putting you down so thats why I came here.
I also wanted to fully understand.
Firstly, friction is really irrelevant in this situation..........almost.
The reason is, because if you imagine a small toy car on a bit of long paper and you pull the paper........if you pull really really slow, then the car will move back with the paper, however it doesnt take much extra pulling speed to overcome that friction and hence the car starts to actually stay in its position relative to the earth. The plane is pretty much identical.
Now this is part of what helped me.........imagine that same matchbox car but this time you are pulling the paper ultra fast..........just like pulling a table cloth off a table, the stuff stays there and so will the car...........no matter how fast you pull it will just stay there.
I then thought to myself.........while that car is sitting there doing 0 miles per hour, ie with no force driving it at all and the conveyor moving at a zillion miles per hour under it..........what would happen if I flicked it?........I realised it would move...........of course it will and yet the conveyor is actually going faster than it.........but why........it doesnt make sense.
I then looked at a wheel rolling slowly on a paper and noticed that the wheel is related to this makeshift conveyor and that unless it slips in the same way a skid on a plane would...............then it couldnt possible alloow the plane to move forward..........it all came down to this slip for me...............and of course then it hit...........the slip is not where the tyre meets the conveyor but is in fact where the axle meets the ball bearings.......if you were to remove the ball bearings from the factor and just have an axle on against solid steel such as you might mnake a billy cart.............then there was the skids of the plane..........just exactly the same............only running inside a wheel to facilitate easier movement..............thus the plane with wheels was no different to the plane with skids.
In my example at the top of page 4 I was only half way to understanding but damn close and it was the acceptance that the plane with skids could do it that then helped me to get the picture.
One other thing worth noting. A mate and I had been discussing this for a few days and he was still unconvinced when he suddenly real;ised that a plane does not drive its wheels...........the wheels are all free spinning..............if they were driven then that would make a big difference.
A car being driven, ie in gear..........cannot possibly move forward on this conveyor as it relies on the tyres to druive against the conveyor.
A car out of gear but with some sort of force applied not related to the conveyor such as a giant fan would move forward irrelevant of the conveyor as its not needing the conveyor to move.
hmmm, I hope that all makes sense and helps at least a little.
Cheers man.
