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  • BDD Moderators: Keif’ Richards

Will this pattern of opiate use lead to addiction? (experienced opiate users reply)

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Finally someone with real experience and not just some internet warrior who copy/pastes things to scare people while being considered the "best poster" on bluelight.

Aight so this threads a couple of weeks old, but if youre still around; what were the withdrawls like coming off of 15mg/day in the spring?

Were they mild and short, or did it still take a week to recover fully?

thanks

I'm here buddy :)

Well, by the end of the winters, it's no longer 20mg/day, it's closer to 75-90mg/day. Tolerance builds, drug loses its effect, more is done to retain the effect, or stay in a constant state of warmth and comfort. It's habit forming in the worst way, but like the hug I never got so it's very tough to let go...

Physical symptoms vary, I typically do a suboxone taper and avoid most physical issues, but the mental draw is tough, and I've relapsed every time. I'm currently using suboxone in low doses to keep away from the stuff... otherwise: good luck sleeping, cold sweats are a bitch, and my already-arthritic body was in even more pain than in the beginning, because of the "softening" of the nerves..

Edit: Oh, and the other fellows (and ladie) in here aren't tooting up yer arse w/ bunk info, just a 3rd party insight, as opposed to me, where I'm kinda "in the shit" still, so to speak...
 
You're more than welcome. ;)

And if you're so well-versed in pharmacology, and you already know how dependence and tolerance works, then you should know whether or not 20 mg a night would "get you dependent on the stuff." Right?


Well, do you expect everyone who's "well versed for the average joe" (which seems to be an apparently high standard in your book?) to know the degree of dependancy created by taking x drug in y dose z times per day/week? Or what the minimum daily amount to even cause dependancy, is?

So close the thread, then. It looks like we're done here...

Does it look like anyone has posted from experience the degree to which they withdrew from just ~20mg/day over a period of several weeks/months? Have they posted studies outlining the specific low-dose short-duration mono-daily situation ive described?

Where'd Oxide go i liked his posts better they contained more knowledge and less sarcasm/belittlement.
 
I agree with those who say you are heading for addiction and/or dependence - you might avoid physical dependence but the mental addiction will creep in, or you might avoid mental addiction but find yourself withdrawing if you don't get your drug for a few days. Tis a slippery slope.. no one wants to hear that - opioids are great, we'd all love to take them every day if we could. Sadly we can't.

Ahh, so what youre saying is, its different for everyone (depending on various biological factors) enough that i prolly wont get a better answer here than i would by just learning from my own body. okay thank you.

(most of the rest of your post)

Awesomely informative. I had no idea. Im saving that text thanks man.
 
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^ thank you!

Yes, everyone is different - and everyone's circumstances are different. I believe it depends on biological, psychological and social factors whether you will become mentally addicted/physically dependent or not. There are some circumstances where physical dependence is an absolute certainty, of course, but there are others where some people seem to become dependent where as others don't. Taking a drug for a few weeks is one of those grey areas I think. Mental addiction definitely depends on psychological and social factors - how much you need the drug, whether you are prone to crave things, whether you need an escape etc...

Hope that makes sense!
 
Ahh, so what youre saying is, its different for everyone....

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And all this from a guy who's well-versed in pharmacology and knows how tolerance and dependence works...
 
yes you will most likely become addicted, there's a small chance that you'll just decide that opiates aren't your thing and stop, a very small chance and not very likely. I write this with a suboxone under my tongue after being on opiates for the better part of the last 3 years. it's really not worth it, you'll be spending all your money just to keep from being sick in no time. but it seems everyone has to learn this the hard way....

just do yourself a huge favor and don't get addicted to benzos too. I didn't read every post but you'd be doing yourself a favor to stay away from H and needles if you're determined to keep using opiates.
 
And all this from a guy who's well-versed in pharmacology and knows how tolerance and dependence works...

Hey man, he came here for harm reduction. I personally think I'm quite a good mechanic, and say that I can hold my own. However, am I the best there is, or know everything about my discipline? Nope, and I bet the OP would express the same sentiment. Perhaps his knowledge about pharma is in basic orgo where he can tell if similar structures will produce a particular effect or not based on their shape and location of certain groupings. /shrug

Not trying to be a dick by any means, just eh, in a good mood hahah. :)

OP: Effie, per usual, is spot on. Listen to her, you'll do well (as well as you can given some topics of conversation haha)
 
Hey man, he came here for harm reduction. I personally think I'm quite a good mechanic, and say that I can hold my own. However, am I the best there is, or know everything about my discipline? Nope, and I bet the OP would express the same sentiment. Perhaps his knowledge about pharma is in basic orgo where he can tell if similar structures will produce a particular effect or not based on their shape and location of certain groupings. /shrug

Not trying to be a dick by any means, just eh, in a good mood hahah. :)

OP: Effie, per usual, is spot on. Listen to her, you'll do well (as well as you can given some topics of conversation haha)

I would be more understanding and patient with the OP if only he had been less of a... what's the word... douchebag to everyone here. I just like to give back what others put out there.

And you have to admit that "it's different for everyone" is just about where one begins to understand how tolerance and dependence works. It's not even a basic principle, really, it's almost common sense and common knowledge. It would be like saying that you are "quite a good mechanic" and then not knowing about gasoline. It's not something that should surprise you... and if it does surprise you, then you need to drop the attitude and show some goddamn humility.
 
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Instead of crushing them up and snorting them, crush them up and swallow the powder, they come on quicker than just swallowing the whole tablet. Oh how I wish 20mg still got me off. The advice about IV/IM is sound, ignore it at your own risk.

The worst thing I remember about stopping oxy's after only 14days continuous use was the stomach pains, diarrheoa and blood in my faeces, on the toilet 7 times in one day, good times, definitely mix it up and have breaks in between.

Good luck on your journey!
 
I would be more understanding and patient with the OP if only he had been less of a... what's the word... douchebag to everyone here. I just like to give back what others put out there.

And you have to admit that "it's different for everyone" is just about where one begins to understand how tolerance and dependence works. It's not even a basic principle, really, it's almost common sense and common knowledge. It would be like saying that you are "quite a good mechanic" and then not knowing about gasoline. It's not something that should surprise you... and if it does surprise you, then you need to drop the attitude and show some goddamn humility.

Thank you for the chuckle. :D

Have a good day, verso :)
 
Anything for you, Neighby! ;)

No, but seriously, here's my contribution to the thread:

Look, one can become physically dependent upon a substance and not mentally addicted. How do you know when you've become physically dependent? When you begin to show physical symptoms, withdrawal symptoms, of course. For example, a heroin addict without heroin will experience nausea, diarrhea, sneezing/yawning, perhaps restless legs, the chills, etc. These physical symptoms are your body's way of saying it has gotten used to what you've been taking, be it heroin, amphetamines, whatever, and now it needs that substance to function "normally."

Mental addiction, on the other hand, is your craving whatever substance, your obsessively seeking out that substance, all of those thoughts of using and ideas inside your head.

Physical dependence and mental addiction can and oftentimes do occur simultaneously. That's not always the case, however. I always give this example because I think that it works so well: I quit taking xanax (alprazolam) cold-turkey, and I suffered a seizure. Was I physically dependent? For sure, and the seizure is proof of that. Am I mentally addicted? I am not, and I can honestly say that there isn't a day that goes by I ever crave xanax or the thought ever crosses my mind that it would be nice to have some. In other words, I was physically dependent upon xanax but not mentally addicted.

So how does all of this apply to the OP's question? Well, if by "addiction" the OP means physically dependent, then I feel confident in saying that he will likely experience some degree of physical dependence. Why? Because 20 mg oxycodone, albeit not an extraordinarily large dose, is still a considerable dose, especially when taken so regularly (each and every night) and as the OP described (snorting the oxycodone, effectively making the 20 mg oxycodone instant release as opposed to extended release). Again, everyone's body chemistry is different, and the OP may not experience very bad withdrawal symptoms at all if and when he quits taking the oxycodone, but it only stands to reason that he would experience some discomfort.

But if by "addiction" the OP means mental addiction, then the question itself is flawed, as it lends itself to the misconception that one can somehow avoid mental addiction, all of the cravings and thoughts of using, by only using very rarely; it's the misconception that a mental addiction is more likely to develop on the 10th, 11th and 12th time using than on the 4th, 5th or 6th. It's also the misconception that the addictive-potential lies almost entirely in the substance itself and not so much in the user when we know the very opposite to be true. (It's more the user than the substance, really.) Do you see what I mean? And that's why in my first post I said something to the effect of, "I love these will-I-become-addicted threads..." I said that because there's just no way for us to know whether or not you'll develop a mental addiction to a certain substance. The most I can do for you is give you an idea of just how many people will develop some sort of a mental addiction based upon statistics, but again, your situation is unique and it's a roll of the dice.

So whenever these threads come up, there's not much for me to say when mental addiction is the topic. Will you become mentally addicted? I haven't the slightest fucking idea and no one else does, either. But I can tell you with some accuracy whether or not you'll develop a physical dependency upon a substance based upon the dose and frequency of use.
 
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Thanks for the awesome posts everyone, I learnt way more than I expected to here. I think I'll stick around this time, this place is friendlier than I remember it to be :)

cept for you verso. come on man now youre just nitpicking. everyone who started smoking weed at 12 knows the effects of drugs and etc are subjective. Im surprised at the degree this difference precipitates in opiate users though. It seemed to me that purer substances like pharmaceuticals produced less scattered effects in the general population, but im glad I was wrong now I get to look back and re-examine and further my knowledge :)

To me thats really cool. I dunno maybe im alone in that sense, Ive always been fascinated by learning and especially pharmakinetics
But as a lot of you warned me, tolerance settled in fast enough, and I dosed way harder, and withdrew pretty bad twice this week already

Im definitely one of those guys who always has to learn the hard way, but I think I'll step back and start taking it a bit easier from now on, thanks to you guys :)

Cruise smooth in the new year, all

(See ya in hell december 2012 verso >:)
ps. i appreciate the serious reply, and i see now why youre a mod
 
Haha. You guys may have had your disagreements but Verso gave some excellent info here and knows his stuff, listen to him!

I'm sorry you did have to learn the hard way, but at least you learnt. Hope you manage to cut back and all goes well :)
 
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OP: We've all tried, and you have the most accurate answer possible.

Telling verso and trippy to go screw, is, well, retarded. They're both very intelligent, and have plenty of personal experience.

Soo... you're still asking a question but telling us the answer.. That's NOT how a forum works, really..
 
whoa. thanks for the informative post, but im pretty well versed in pharmacology, at least for the average joe. I know how dependance and tolerance works. I was just looking for someone with experience to let me know if 20mg a night would get me dependant on the stuff. Just like how you can have a beer a night and not become dependant on alcohol to function, or get strong cravings for it to lift your mood.

oh yeah and with regards to the whole addiction vs dependance clarification; yeah perhaps i did mean dependant and not "addicted".
physically and mind-chemically (up and down regulation of neurotransmitters and dulling of receptors etc) dependant. not "unable to control myself addicted!"



Wait so what do you mean by addicted then?
reliant on it for mood?

cause this is the most important aspect of it for me. i dont mind shitting myself and etc (well, i do, but..) cause at least i can hide it and appear normal for the holidays when i run out

i cant hide post-use depression and emotionality though :/

Okay... to my understand...:

Mental addiction = you crave it, you would like to use it, it is on your mind.

Physical addiction = dependence, you need it to function, because without it you will go through withdrawals and become sick, and feel lousy and have trouble functioning.

Also, I think OP is a troll...
 

Well, just cause someones a mod or smart or educated or experienced, doesnt mean theyre immune to getting cocky and being a bit of a dick sometimes. No one deserves god-like respect and for every word they type to be followed without question. That kind of thinking gets you nowhere and is DEFINITELY not how a forum "works".

still asking questions? where? are you sure you read the thread properly? im also not sure why you posted at all. just to flame and act omniscient? im really not sure how you confused bluelight with /b/, i mean, the color background isnt even the same man

maybe colorblindness tbh


>more words

that post was more with regards to semantics tbh
also yeah im a total troll ive never even drank a sip alcoohol mayne
everything i typed was made up i admit it
i mostly just come here cause the backgrounds pretty and blue
isnt it pretty? wait no stop looking at it
blues bad for your testosterone im serious :|


>concern for me

thanks. im doing ok. i appreciate the concern and info man
and by doing ok i mean struggling and learning and experiencing and falling,
but luckily my source is a very, very, nice guy and truly cares about my health and wellbeing.
a great friend. helping me as much as he can to keep me clean. bailing me out when i need really need it
just a great guy and someone i can call a truly good human

im really lucky in that sense, to have someone who isnt just trying to "feed the guppies" and make a bunch of money.
really, very, lucky.

i wish anyone struggling with opiate addiction, the luck
of finding someone with such a good spirit, and a clear mind
 
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