Will the New Tobacco Tax stop you from buying Tobacco to mix with your Marijuana?

[aero]

For me personally, thats a huge part of what really shits me for tax hikes on cigarettes. Fine if you firmly believe in a policy where the level of tax on an activity reflects the potential danger and cost to society, apply this philosophy equally, not just to cigarette smoking because you dislike it.

Dude that's what I was trying to say. That the tax should reflect the cost to society. My qualm isn't with smokeing (althought I'm against it). My issue is with the cost that's fronted by the tax payer ie. me.

I'm just justifying that something that causes damage should have to account for that damage. And it doesnt help that ciggarettes are the most toxic substance humans consume, not meth, not dope, not even booze.

No sane person is going to push meth/dope use on someone, but in comparison use of those substances can be practised more safely than smokeing, allbeit marginally.

 

[drug_mentor]

^ I still don't see why tobacco smokers are the only ones being held to that standard, and nobody seems to be arguing anyone else should be. Basically anytime the Government wants to generate more income they go "fuck it, lets slug the smokers with the bill" because they know nobody will give a shit.

If taxes did reflect the cost to society I would have nothing to complain about, the fact that they don't means its unfair to expect smokers to be held to a standard you aren't holding others.

For what its worth, I don't neccessarily the entire social or health cost of an activity should be covered by the tax on it, because people are paying taxes on their income, GST, stamp duty, the list goes on. All of these taxes are an individuals contribution to society and as a contributing member of society that should count for something. People forget that the taxes on cigarettes aren't the only taxes being paid by the smoker, surely all the other tax someone pays should entitle them to some healthcare as well?

 

[rm2x]

and again alcohol seems to get away with it again scott free.....

 

[drug_mentor]

^ Haha, as a heavy drinker I don't want to throw the spotlight on alcohol too much either.

In all seriousness though, do those of you who believe this is fair atleast acknowledge the hypocrisy of the approach to smoking compared to anything else? Thats why we smokers feel so alienated and pissed off about these tax hikes, because it is us who get hit every single fucking time and yes we are a burden but so are the obese people and the drunks and the daredevils who are in hospital every fucking month for a new stupid injury and nobody is sooking at any of them to foot the bill via taxing the shit out of their dangerous activities.

I understand you can't do it all at once and you have to make the first step somewhere, but its not as if this is even close to the first tax hike on cigarettes so in my mind that is a moot point in regards to this issue.

Even if we still disagreed with the tax rise on cigarettes, in general smokers would have a lot less to complain about if we weren't the only ones being held to this standard.

I would also like to point out, a tax hike doesn't accomplish its stated goals if it forces a large number of legitimate purchasers to the black market. In the current climate I don't see the amount of people switching to chop chop negating the profits of the tax increase, but we have been headed down the increased cost road for years now with no sign of slowing up. If we keep going the way we are going this is bound to become an issue at some point as well.

 

[belarki]

and again alcohol seems to get away with it again scott free.....

^ not if you fancy pre-mixed spirits? Of course that whole alco-pops tax scheme was farcical with sales of straight spirits now on a steady increase instead

 

[drug_mentor]

^ it is pretty off topic but I found the alco pops tax a blessing in disguise. It is SO much better to mix your own than drink the shit the grog companies mix up. Fucks your guts so much less, more cost effective, get drunk quicker, piss less and tastes better.

 

[bit_pattern]

^ I still don't see why tobacco smokers are the only ones being held to that standard, and nobody seems to be arguing anyone else should be.

I am!

 

[bit_pattern]

and again alcohol seems to get away with it again scott free.....

You'd be wrong about that:

In a change that could boost the budget bottom line by as much as $2.9 billion over four years, a review of the tax system headed by Treasury boss Ken Henry is believed to recommend replacing Australia's antiquated and complex alcohol excise regime with a simpler ''volumetric'' system based on alcohol content.

The Sunday Age believes that in an acknowledgement of the health and social costs inflicted by alcohol abuse, Treasury has proposed a stepped approach, with tax rates progressively increasing according to alcohol content. The thresholds are believed be 3.5 per cent, 5 per cent, 7 per cent, 10 per cent, 15 per cent and 22 per cent.

http://www.theage.com.au/national/tax-shakeup-to-hit-beer-wine-prices-20100116-mdj1.html

And, seeing this really makes me feel D_M's pain: on an emotive level I can totally get where you are coming from, on a rational level I guess once I become a teetotaler I'll find this easier to swallow (or not swallow, as will be the case ).

 

[drug_mentor]

True bit pattern you did say about icreased taxing of other shit, but only when propmted and your one person in this thread. But yeah, glad you atleast see where I am coming from.

Fuck I am spewing about that alcohol tax, I hope they don't push it through because I will really be fucked money wise. Smokes, codeine, booze, whats next? FUCK!

 

[bit_pattern]

whats next? FUCK!

Healthy living?

 

[drug_mentor]

Fuck healthy living man haha, I will sooner die than live healthy. In all seriousness, I used to derive a lot of pleasure from living a healthy lifestyle but no matter what I do now I can't seem to re adopt those values. I used to be nuts on boxing, MMA and powerlifting and take it a lot easier on the substances of abuse. Funny the way things pan out, isn't it? I used be healthy for my own enjoyment and now I am here bitching that increased costs wont stop my slow death. haha

Seriously though, the world would be a terrible place to live in if we all gave up everything that was unhealthy. I would rather enjoy the time I am here than sit around avoiding things I enjoy to squeeze a few extra years out of life. To each their own, personally when I am ravaged with cancers and emphysema I don't plan on being a burden to the rest of society, I will just bite the dust in a last blaze of opiated euphoria. Seriously why people even choose to bear through that horrible way out baffles me. My grandma is dying of lung cancer as we speak, you would think it would turn me off smoking but it doesn't. We all gotta kick it somehow.

 

[bit_pattern]

Do you really enjoy smoking though? I mean bongs, yeah, other rec drugs, sure, but ciggies? The only enjoyment is the fact that the nicotine stops you from feeling bad as you start to withdrawal. The only good ciggie for me was the first one of the day, everything after trhat was just passing time, it was only after holding off from nicotine for at least 12 hours that the nicotine actually gave me any pleasure whatsoever.

 

[Umbo]

Man , I've had 3 or 4 smokes just reading the replies since yesterday lol

Aero , geez ... this thread almost disintegrated because of your statements brother ... I think you meant well and judging from the last few posts it's all good. I will say though , there is nothing more infuriating to a smoker than a "reformed" smoker getting all high and mighty up against it. To be honest I thought this tact was very rarely taken by ex-smokers anymore for the obvious reasons)

Bit_pattern ... All well said ... that is the type of tact to take I tink. (similie overload lol) and as for your Q about what does a ciggie do ... your right It doesn't have too much recreational value per se ...

I think a smoke with a drink is excellent and complimentary (along with other assorted drugs) ... sure could smoke the less harmful Cannabis but do that with 12 beers and the night may end earlier than is desired haha
I am not actually too sure exactly what effects it has (besides compensating for constant withdrawal) ... but I know what it helps ... it helps to think. Much like caffeine can create a very subtle type of awareness and help to concentrate , tobacco seems to promote a similar effect. Like all drugs ... some will never need/want ... some will dabble and partake and some will get heavier into and possibly addicted ... just think of all the literary and other creative arts geniuses that have had chronic drug habits yet succeeded ... cigarettes certainly don't take a back seat to these other drugs in those regards (including caffeine and other common things percieved to be harmless).

I think that gets my thoughts across so I won't elaborate much more but just to mention ... It would be wise to remember not to demonize Tobacco ... sure there's some nicotine and smoking is somewhat unhealthy ... but Tobacco isn't such a health risk if ... and I mean IF it's unadulterated , which ofc they have made it Illegal to be grown naturally. The Corporations are Legally Allowed to put the extra poisons and a certain percentages of ADDICTIVE chemicals into the product ... this is why they are so damn toxic and hard to kick ... not Tobacco , It's Big Corporate Poisons. Think Monsanto and lets cry ourselves to sleep. Ahem ...
I just think that needs to be remembered ... many have no idea and blame Tobacco , It's like blaming Cannabis the plant because someone soaked it in molten lead to increase dry weight or something. Well , you know heheh.

I agree mostly with d_m. I think we think a little alike ... and damnnit! , Beer has gone up again too lol ... I brew my own but only as supplementary ... they are robbing cash off the ones who most need it to smoke and drink and afford drugs coz their life is so miserable because they don't have enough cash to buy them ... lol ... and around and around it goes until something has to give I guess.

Btw , exactly like that article after I last posted ... I have absobed the price of Baccy by cutting down on foods etc , ffs for everyone gonna start stealing skin cream and chocolates lmao 8) they just gotsta get their dose of skin cream no doubt. I steal some food if I couldn't eat cheap. Poor 'ol 711's feeling the pinch eh? , oh bummer , might have to inflate their prices on other things boo-hoo.
(ahh , that feels better now it's ventilated , might get to more comments later).

Cheerz.

 

[bit_pattern]

I gotta admit, nicotine is a good buzz (once your addicted) and I probably exaggerted with the 12 hours. I'm kinda drunk now and am recalling what it is like to com out after four or five hours non-stop in the kitchen during a busy shift and nicotine IS nice, but the negatives far outweight the positives for me.

Only thing I'd say is that the so-called additives are the least of your problems. Burn tobacco, or any leafy material, you're going to release a shit one of poisonous compounds. Smoking in itself is harmful, just look at weed - can't remember which compounds but some of the more carcinogenic compounds in tobacco smoke is found in marijuana smoke at higher concentrations (I remember that from a reply by phase_dancer in a thread about bong smoking iirc). So you can't just blame Big Agro or Big Tobacco, burning any organic matter results in chemical changes and the creation of new and dangerous compounds

 

[drug_mentor]

Bit pattern I really do enjoy smoking, I enjoy the feeling of inhaling smoke, I enjoy the feeling nicotine gives me. Have you ever heard the expression joy wouldn't feel so good if it weren't for pain? Maybe a lot of it is caused by nicotine withdrawals but that doesn't mean the relief isn't oh so good.

 

[Umbo]

I gotta admit, nicotine is a good buzz (once your addicted) and I probably exaggerted with the 12 hours. I'm kinda drunk now and am recalling what it is like to com out after four or five hours non-stop in the kitchen during a busy shift and nicotine IS nice, but the negatives far outweight the positives for me.

Only thing I'd say is that the so-called additives are the least of your problems. Burn tobacco, or any leafy material, you're going to release a shit one of poisonous compounds. Smoking in itself is harmful, just look at weed - can't remember which compounds but some of the more carcinogenic compounds in tobacco smoke is found in marijuana smoke at higher concentrations (I remember that from a reply by phase_dancer in a thread about bong smoking iirc). So you can't just blame Big Agro or Big Tobacco, burning any organic matter results in chemical changes and the creation of new and dangerous compounds

Oh no no no ... I have to disagree with you here sorry mate.
Geez , best start at the top ... I never said Nicotine was a good buzz ... maybe some think that but I never even got a headspin , Dad was a smoker so I've been a smoker since birth tho , never even smelt the smoke in the face in a closed up loungeroom in winter ... was totally oblivious to it , no shit.
Once your hooked , yes it satisfies the cravings therefore makes one feel better in a sense but we all know what is going on there ...
And then there's the Alchohol as you mention , do we want to start comparing the poisons? ... not much wrong with a few drinks but being drunk screws up your body in arguably more ways than even Tobacco (oops he was smoke-driving , nicotine induced violence etc , nope.) , if they were to put addictive additives into booze (like it needs it yeh) ... wouldn't there be blame to be layed? ... not on the addicted but on the executives and their decisions and regulation boards under thumb , for purposely pursuing this evil business mentality?? ... get em hooked , and better yet , get em hooked young. Like our society isn't poisonous in itself anyway , suck on the exhaust of just one car and see how long you last ... multiply it by millions and this IS what we breathe ... tobacco? ... please sir , may I have another puff.

And OMG ... not Cannabis Lies again!?!?!? ... and here I was expecting better ... well no worries. I'm sure you know of all the studies concluding that Cannabis is basically non-toxic (smoke is carcinogenic yes , so is toast) ... and that Cannabinoids have been increasingly shown (since the 70's) to kill cancer cells whilst leaving healthy cells unharmed? ... This is well known now , the debates on the harms of Cannabis are basically negated by it's pros now in an ever increasing majority of the world , This is why there's a very good Chance California will legalize Cannabis outright after the November polls. Cannabis Deaths = 0 (plz memorize for future posterity) ahem ...

Big Tobacco and Big Agriculture certainly ARE to blame ... Big Corporate Everything is to blame for the sorry state of affairs we live amongst. I don't see how anyone could argue that purposfully putting harmful chemicals into a consumer product is something that should remain blameless , they don't let us give the kiddies Lead based toys to chew on any more do they? ... letalone be able to increase it's addicting/poisonous properties 8)

Anyhoo , I agree that people shouldn't smoke commercial tobacco if they have regards for utmost health ... I agree that this tax may deter a very small few and just make it harder for smokers who won't or just can't quit ... whilst not effecting the more well off who smoke , it effects the many less well off folk that do. Think about it , if they were really serious and it wasn't the obvious tax grab it is they would have made cigs "prescription Only" in some style like they have purposed , on and off , over many years now. Nope , Can't actually help people so lets tax them instead. Indeed.

Well then , that's enough from me ... let the discussions continue ...

Cheers.

 

[Mr Blonde]

I love smoking, I chain smoke all day long. It improves every single activity I partake in; eating, drinking, talking, driving, listening to music, playing music, dancing, goes well with almost any other drug ESPECIALLY opioids, great after sex, great when watching movies or TV, great when reading a book or writing...

The list goes on.

But now I have to smoke rollies because of the new tax, and I am REALLY bad at rolling cigarettes.

 

[Umbo]

I love smoking, I chain smoke all day long. It improves every single activity I partake in; eating, drinking, talking, driving, listening to music, playing music, dancing, goes well with almost any other drug ESPECIALLY opioids, great after sex, great when watching movies or TV, great when reading a book or writing...

The list goes on.

But now I have to smoke rollies because of the new tax, and I am REALLY bad at rolling cigarettes.

Lol ^ Now that's an enthusiastic smoker if ever i read text written by one.
I agree that Opioids makes it feel bloody fantastic to have a smoke or 2 ... lucky I smoke way slower in that state or I'd be a chainsmoker also haha.
To be honest I can't think of a "high" that smoking doesn't feel great with.

Eating- Not for me but after ofc
Drinking- Yes please
Talking- inbetween puffs yes
Driving- I walk mostly so no , if someone else driving yes
Music listen- ofc yes
Playing music- Slash was my childhood idol but no , i find it distracting and burns my eyse when looking down
Dancing- Only alone at home , usually when drinking , so yes ...
Sex- what about during? ... i'd say after but not enough experience to say absolutely
Movies/TV- yes
*Games- Yes but only while "Loading ..."
Reading- not really , dont want to drop ash on book or bed or couch etc but inbetween chapters , well ofc.

haha , there sure are alot of situations conducive to smoking that's for sure ...
I wouldn't say it necessarily "improves" most of these activities ... but it doesn't really detract from them either.

I'm going to start growing my own baccy after winter. If anything , the rising costs of everything , food included has at least made me to become more self-sufficiency minded and figure ways to live the same way with less financial cost ... not always easy when your constantly "self-medicating" all the time ... but what doesn't kill us... etc.

Cheers ... your post made me laugh Mr Blonde ... as for those rollies , give it a bit , you'll be rolling up the perfect slims in no time I'm sure. I started with taylor made cigs but can't smoke them anymore , people offer them sometimes like it's a pity gesture but i just don't accept them (now i no longer chop with spin heh) ... I feel like I'm being gassed if i smoke a taylor nowadays after rollies for years ... the heavy chemical density of the smoke i just can't stand it , even being next to one burning almost makes me sick. Funny that isn't it , just thought I'd mention it. (They've massively increased the additives since i started tho so I see that as the reason I can't smoke them anymore ... in syaing that most of the pouch tobaccos are just as bad these days ... I stick with the Ox as it's one of the only one that doesn't seem saturated with chemicals anymore , just my preference ... and no , i've never been to jail : P) heheh

Cheers.

 

[nath6023]

Go mentor!!!!! I turned red reading aero's response to mine prior. No logic in his statements. I know this isn't a HR thread, plus the packs and adds is HR overkill. As a smoker, those adds make me spark up all the time! Lets make an advertising tobacco thread, just for aero. Plus he waisted to much bandwidth with those post's. Some poor kid in africa could have checked his mail with that!

 

[aero]

Go mentor!!!!! I turned red reading aero's response to mine prior. No logic in his statements. I know this isn't a HR thread, plus the packs and adds is HR overkill. As a smoker, those adds make me spark up all the time! Lets make an advertising tobacco thread, just for aero. Plus he waisted to much bandwidth with those post's. Some poor kid in africa could have checked his mail with that!

Inhale some petrol too mate, that really annoys me.