Will the New Tobacco Tax stop you from buying Tobacco to mix with your Marijuana?

[drug_mentor]

^ If you are in the more southern states I suggest you get your arse over to shroomery and start reading. Shrooms are VERY easy to stumble upon yourself with a little bit of common sense and a point in the right direction.

 

[nath6023]

^I'll head back there. I'm in NSW, Berowra. But i'll drive a few hours if i have to. Thanks for the advice. I'll head off now, but any one know some where Newcastle to sydney, that'd be kewl. Peace.

 

[Umbo]

Hey , Good discussion so far and I agree with plenty of it.
I had no idea about this Tobacco Tax until the night before it started
I was rightly pissed off to start with because they are expensive enough as it is and continue to rise twice a year anyway. Plus the majority of smokers are from the lower end of the 'socio-economic' scale so I see it as quite unfair in that regard ... Agreed it is a terrible habit to have but it IS underestimated how addictive they are unless you happen to be the one addicted long-term ... and it's not something a few dollars extra expense is going to help the truly addicted quit. Yet they still have to fork out the extra cash each day/week in turn possibly compensating by cutting out healthier expenses such as eating fresh foods or just general life maintenance.

However , It only took me a few days to form a truer opinion ... and that is that this will certainly deter some people to smoke cigs ... that's a definate , the smoker of a few months or even years may think twice about such expenses (especially the youth) and given the known health risks and hassle of the habit this can only be a good thing ... and as some of us know , if you thought you were addicted after 2 years , try 5 ... think that's addicted?? ... try 10 and see , you'll think 5 years would have been easy to quit ... how about 10 or 20 years??? ... It Just Gets Worse! Stop while you can , as I've never met an older smoker who hasn't tried to quit eventually so may aswell do it while it's still somewhat easier.

Ofc I Don't mean to lecture else I'd be a hypocrite , people make their own decisions ... I am a smoker and I enjoy a Smoke but I don't enjoy being addicted (and counting) ... and I certainly don't like the price but this new tax has effected me somewhat ... I have actually cut down over the last couple of weeks primarily because I'm now spending almost $10 a week more than I was a few weeks ago , and money is so tight right now every dollar really does count. I did nothing special ... just bought slimmer filters and payed attention to rolling my smokes smaller , so I still smoke as many cigs lol , just less tobacco all up in the day.
(ahem , and to give an idea ... i'm very carefully 'putting out' my cigs now so I can easy salvage (undirtied) each 1/2cm of leftovers for "bumpers" (ew) 8) not pleasant , but it shows how addictive they truly are and the "desperation" taht can ensue from addiction and inflated substance costs).

Haha , well ... that's my 2cents (with inflated tax grab) worth , in a nutshell.

Now to Cannabis and the Spin subject ... There are many different reasons why people mix with tobacco , most of which have been mentioned here ...
Bulks up the "mix" to go around ... Helps it burn , especially when really sticky icky or possibly still moist ... smoothens the mix if shitty buds ... supresses the cough if good buds ... and some just enjoy the headrush , also true that there are theories that it somehow gets you 'more stoned' and there IS a relevant study but I don't consider it important enough to go searching for right now.

I smoked with "spin" since I started smoking ... never anywhere near 1/2-1/2 tho ... in bongs primarily ... funnily enough I'm the opposite of a few here in that I actually preferred my joints straight and ofc dry pipes always straight.
Starting last year but consistent this year I started smoking just "green" in my bongs ... after 15 years or so smoking my Cannabis with Tobacco and always preferring it that way It only took a few months to just stop ... a few weeks and I didn't think I'd last , I wasn't even enjoying the cones as much for a bit , but keeping persistant and trying to smoke the most quality buds possible while "quitting" it turned out to be quite easy ... and now , 6 months later I wouldn't look back ... one less health damaging thing on the list and the Cones are as satisfying as ever and the taste/aroma of the premium buds is more fully realized ... by a country mile.
SO no more deep and held breathes of corporate poison tobacco no more for me ... pretty hard to argue medicinal use (letalone get the therapeutic benefits at all) if your mixing with a well documented toxic substance. Well , that's my view anyway ... and actually it was that that was one of my main drivers to stop spinning the mix ... the price rises weren't an issue then.

Sorry for the long post there all ... It's just I'd rather just try and sum my thoughts up in one go rather than multiple smaller entries. No worries.

Cheers.

 

[drug_mentor]

^ I have heard people say both spinning and not spinning get you higher, personally I think there are far too many factors to ever fully comment on it.

One thing I have always thought is, nicotine reaches the brain quite a bit faster than THC and it causes ones heart rate to increase. If the nicotine gets to the brain and speeds up the heart just as THC hits the bloodstream then wouldn't that make the THC pump to your brain faster? Just a theory I have always had.

A lot of people say straight green gets you higher because you get more THC per lung full but this is pretty subjective. I know back when I was smoking a few grams a day I could pull HUGE cones (not dicksizing, just saying, I can't go near that anymore anyway) of a mix and struggle to pull much more than an average straight green cone without coughing. In my case, I could take more THC in my lungs at any given period if I had mixed my weed with tobacco. Since weed is a bronchialdilator and tobacco a bronchioconstrictor, and the fact straight weed would be unadulterated means the most THC physically possible to get in a set of lungs would be straight green, but when you apply it to the individual smoker it varies.

For me personally, if I mix or not influences the start of the high where the weed comes on but keeping everything else pretty equal (quality of weed, tolerance, period of time it takes me to consume the cannabis etc.) I don't think I get any higher whether I mix or smoke it straight and the high is pretty much the same overall.

 

[Umbo]

^ I have heard people say both spinning and not spinning get you higher, personally I think there are far too many factors to ever fully comment on it.

One thing I have always thought is, nicotine reaches the brain quite a bit faster than THC and it causes ones heart rate to increase. If the nicotine gets to the brain and speeds up the heart just as THC hits the bloodstream then wouldn't that make the THC pump to your brain faster? Just a theory I have always had.

Hello again ,
Yep ... and although I actually don't think there are that many factors involved really , I agree that there is much that is purely anecdotal and speculation. I contest that very few actually stray away from their normal methods long enough in order to experiment willingly.

Your theory sounds fair enough to me ... even though Cannabis will raise the heart rate apon initial smoking anyway ... but maybe there is a combined effect there in how quickly it effects the brain.
I'd agree that it seems to make a difference on the initial effects ... and ofc if there is no baccy in the mix there is more Cannabis being smoked in each cone ... but with or without baccy I think the difference in the end result of being "stoned" is negligable.
However ... This study shows different ... I thought I'd dig it up for you :

Inhal Toxicol. 2009 Feb;21(2):87-90.
Cannabis smoke condensate II: influence of tobacco on tetrahydrocannabinol levels.
Van der Kooy F, Pomahacova B, Verpoorte R.
Division of Pharmacognosy, Section of Metabolomics, Institute of Biology, Leiden University, Leiden, The Netherlands. [email protected]

Abstract
Medicinal cannabis has attracted a lot of attention in recent times. Various forms of administration are used, of which smoking is very common but the least desirable. Smoking cannabis generates a large amount of unwanted side products, of which carcinogenic compounds are the most dangerous. A common practice among recreational drug users, and to a lesser degree patients who uses cannabis as medicine, is to mix the cannabis material with commercially available tobacco in order to increase the burning efficiency of the cigarette and to reduce the overall costs of the cigarette. In this study cannabis material has been mixed with tobacco in order to determine whether tobacco has an influence on the amount of and ratio between tetrahydrocannabinol (THC), cannabigerol (CBG), and cannabinol (CBN) administered while smoking. A small-scale smoking machine has been used and cannabis mixed with various ratios of tobacco was smoked. The trapped smoke was quantitatively analyzed by high-performance liquid chromatography (HPLC) and the amount of THC, CBG, and CBN was determined for each cigarette. We have found that tobacco increases the amount of THC inhaled per gram of cannabis from 32.70 +/- 2.29 mg/g for a 100% cannabis cigarette to 58.90 +/- 2.30 mg/g for a 25% cannabis cigarette. This indicates that tobacco increases the vaporization efficiency of THC by as much as 45% under the conditions tested.

Source : http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18855154?ordinalpos=8&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_DefaultReportPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum

Who would have thought eh?
Regardless of the exactitude of that study , It's still very unhealthy to smoke tobacco with Cannabis especially considering the smoke is generally breathed deeper and held longer in the lungs than a cigarette ... and as has been mentioned ... this is how so many end up with what is often mistakenly termed "Cannabis Dependance" when most of the time it is the addiction to the tobacco as an addative that causes the dependance.

And as for the supression of the cough bit , that is definatly correct ... but you get used to either way. Those who are used to spin will cough without , those not used to the bacco will cough with it mixed ... either way can be easily trained vica versa ... Purely for health reasons I would ofc recommend not mixing and If I can change it after 15 years of spin in the daily mixes , I assure you all that anyone can. Good discussion.

Cheers.

 

[drug_mentor]

Oh yeah! I can't believe I left out that theory of mine also! Where I figured since heat destroys THC, I am almost certain tobacco burns at a lower temperature so reducing the temperature it takes for your material to combust would decrease how much THC was destroyed. Even if the burning temperature for tobacco is exactly the same, I know when punching a cone if it has soem tobacco in there you can generally take the flame off sooner before just the air flow keeps it lit, obviously this would result in less heat in the cone and less destroyed THC. Honestly meant to put that in my last post, knew I forgot something!

I had never seen any studies that indicated cannabis was more effective when consumed with tobacco so thanks for posting mate! I am still not really certain, really I doubt it truly makes as much difference as 45% and weed is cheap and abundant enough that knowing one way or another was ever so slightly more effective than the other probably wouldn't change my current consumption habits whether they were proven the most efficient or not.

 

[De quincy]

Bottom line for me in this whole debate is that drug use is a cultural thing some people prefer spin other don’t. The ritualistic process of chopping up and mixing spin and cannabis has a definite reward at the end of the act. Passing the bong or joint around within a group setting as far as I’m concerned with or without spin has parallels with the ritual of brewing and consuming tea around a tea party enjoyed by a group of elderly women or a group of seasoned heroin users mixing up within a group setting. Humans love their cultural rituals regardless of what’s right and what’s wrong.

There are obviously less harmful ways of consuming cannabis but at the end of the day it comes down to personal choice. For me personally the technological piece of mastery of this 21st century is not the IPod or the IPad but the humble vaporiser.

 

[drug_mentor]

^ Good post there man! You are definately on the money.

Not sure about the vaporiser, although I am definately no Ipad fan as touch screens suck dick imho, I have never tried vaporising or eating cannabis, been using the shit 8+ years now but I have always LOVED smoking it even though my lungs have really paid the price.

 

[De quincy]

Eating, vaporising and tincture based cannabis open up another whole new menu of options on the cannabis smorgasbord , trust me you won’t be disappointed. You can even try the infamous Bhang Lassie if you feel like taking it to another dimension. Google it.

 

[nath6023]

I would quit smoking if i could eat canabis. Plus it would make me eat to start with, i'd have an insentive But unless there's a Rich dude on this thread that will pitty me, then smoke i shall. I broke my fast of a week, and got stonned for 1st time in years. I didn't spin, I didn't feel a need to use an opiate to get to sleep, and i made dinner. I'm not sure, but i thought tobb burned hotter than "mul" But i'm to lazy to search and source. And as to the heart pumping more blood and getting high faster from a few posts ago ^. I don't think it would matter at all about that, because once it's in the blood unless it was H, you couldn't tell. As for a logic reason not to spin, because the gases will expand in your lungs, the less "placebo smoke" in your lungs would aid absorbtion. So moore THC actually absobed. Placebo aint the word but you know what i mean.

 

[drug_mentor]

De Quincy I am familiar with what bhang lassies are, I am open to the idea of trying other methods of consumption but personally with the amount of weed I can afford and consume I can't waste any trying to bake brownies or something. I wouldn't mind trying a vape but they are expensive and I know I wouldn't use it over my bong 9 times out of 10.

Nath the reason I mentioned heart rate increase is because both THC and nicotine are inhaled into the lungs which absorb the drug into the bloodtstream where it is carried to the brain. I have read that nicotine reaches the brain quicker than THC does, and when it gets there I know it increases ones heart rate, if this was the case and THC was in ones blood but not the brain yet it makes sense to me that it would get there quicker. That isn't a "better" high though, just a quicker onset and it may not be the case anyway.

De Quincy is right though, it all comes down to culture and while we all have our percieved benefits to why we either spin or don't spin if a few of our beliefs were proven or disproven it probablyt wouldn't change much, we are creatures of habit.

 

[lynnie]

Cigarette tax has no effect on smokers

KEVIN Rudd's tobacco tax is having a direct and debilitating impact on small retailers as smokers cut back on magazines, chocolate and soft drinks to buy cigarettes.

Small businesses say they are paying the price for the Rudd Government's 25 per cent increase in tobacco excise, which added an average $2.20 to the price of a pack of 30 cigarettes from April 30.

Grocers, newsagents, petrol stations and convenience stores are experiencing little to no drop in cigarette sales, but slumping sales of confectionery, magazines, bottled drinks, newspapers, snack foods and other discretionary purchases, as the impact of rising interest rates, fuel prices and tighter credit squeeze wallets.

Shoplifting may also rise as a result of the cigarette tax, warns the Australian Retailers' Association, which is leading a campaign against the federal anti-smoking measures, including plain-paper wrappings for all cigarettes from 2012.

"It's definitely a noticeable effect: people won't buy the magazine, the chocolate bar or the newspaper they used to buy with their cigarettes, but they're still purchasing tailor-made cigarettes at the same rate," Mick Daly, national chairman of the independent supermarket group IGA, said.

"They are cutting back on some purchases and trading down on others, so they'll either stop buying chocolate biscuits or move down to a budget brand."

Retailers - who are also worried about a booming black market in illicit tobacco sales - are nervously awaiting official confirmation of the trend in official retail-sales figures, due later this year.

Shop owners are angry about the tax rise, Russell Zimmerman, of the Australian Retailers' Association, said.

Impulse-buy items, often displayed at counters, accounted for as much as 40 per cent of small retailers' turnover, he said.

"Smoking is an addiction, and smokers won't go without cigarettes - so other parts of the retail industry are going to suffer," Mr Zimmerman said.

"For low- and middle-income earners, a 25 per cent tax rise is eating into their budget for other items: chocolates, magazines, skin care, aftershave for men. There's a slowdown in all those products.

"This is why it's unfair: cigarettes are a legal product. Retailers are in business to make a quid, so why should they be punished for selling this legal product?

"You will also find theft and security issues associated with this. It's not people thieving cigarettes, it's people thieving the products they want: those same discretionary items, such as skin cream."

Disposable income is already being stretched by rising household bills and interest rates, and the cigarette tax had made things worse, Sheryle Moon, executive director of the Australian Association of Convenience Stores, said.

"Smokers have to make choices, and they may include looking for cheaper sources of tobacco, or they may access the illicit (tobacco) market and some tobacconists are selling single cigarettes," she said.

"People won't disadvantage their familiess so they won't cut back on groceries - they'll cut out the impulse items."

Tobacco-tax rises created an initial drop in sales, then a rebound, IBISWorld senior retail analyst Naren Sivasailam said.

"Historically, demand for cigarettes has been inelastic, given that tobacco is addictive -- and 25 per cent, which works out at around $2 a packet, is not significant enough for smokers to quit on price alone," Mr Sivasailam said.

"Given that you'll be lucky to get $5 change from a $20 note for a packet of cigarettes, buyers are becoming more reticent to pick up impulse purchases."

The trend would be hard to pick in official retail figures because there was no appreciable drop in overall turnover, BP service station owner Reg Johnston said.

http://www.news.com.au/business/bus...smokers-cut-back/story-e6frfm5i-1225872975412

 

[aero]

This has been talked about so many times. Sick of hearing it. If you need to pay 25% extra for ciggarettes so be it, It's your choice. The more expensive ciggarettes the better.

 

[drug_mentor]

Hopefully the retailers make enough noise to get this tax reversed, they will never listen to the smokers but they might listen to the economy.

 

[drug_mentor]

Aero, I wonder how you would like it if your DOC just increased in cost every couple of years to the point it was ridiculous? Its easy to talk shit when it doesn't affect you but the fact is we all engage in unhealthy behaviours and smokers are financially persecuted much more than most. Also, you miss the whole point of the article because the whole point is that the new tax is affecting NON-SMOKERS negatively, so maybe its so black and white "fuck the smokers" to you but the fact is the issue is starting to run deeper than that.

 

[crazynate:]]

In the US, cigarettes slowly keep creeping up in price... It's all about budget.. if you smoke, you're going to budget your money around the need to smoke as you do when gas goes up, but I don't think there's very many people quitting because of it.. although it makes you think about it sometimes

 

[lynnie]

I hope i do not get banned for posting prices but you could easily get a packet of cigarettes in the US for around 7.20 USD.

 

[thickskin]

In the US, cigarettes slowly keep creeping up in price... It's all about budget.. if you smoke, you're going to budget your money around the need to smoke as you do when gas goes up, but I don't think there's very many people quitting because of it.. although it makes you think about it sometimes

Studies do show that increases in price are one of the most effective means of getting people to quit. This can still be something that people against the tax can acknowledge.

 

[bit_pattern]

Bollocks.

A. There is plenty of evidence to show that increased taxes lead to reduced rates of smoking.

B. The current tax increase has only been in place for a few weeks, of course you wouldn't have seen a marked decrease yet.

C. Woe is me! The poor Retailers Association, losing impulse sales from addicts coming into their premises! Aw, diddums! Maybe their members need to look at other ways to pick up revenue than relying on impulse buying addicts. Just because a product is legal doesn't make it ethical.

 

[bit_pattern]

but I don't think there's very many people quitting because of it

I know one guy who did. And I stopped the day before the tax went through, though that was only by coincidence as I'd relapsed after quitting for four months.