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  • AADD Moderators: swilow | Vagabond696

Why you should take antioxidant's with MDMA

[Note: Goddamn the globe icon rocks! It's so purdy! :) ]
Firstly (I know I should read the FAQ) when is the best time to take the Vit C? I usually take some towards the tail end of my roll, and also along with my daily vitamin intake.
You need to be taking your antioxidants much sooner. I would take a large dose (1-3 grams vit C in your case) 2 hours prior to dropping, then another dose 1 hour into your roll, and so on every 3-4 hours. You need to maintain the high level of vitamin C and to do you HAVE to repeat dose.
Secondly, part of my daily intake is echinacea, as I have a crappy immune system. Are there any added benefits to my post loading by taking this?
Although there isn't much medical literature on this, personally I think the echinacea is probably a good idea. It won't help a WHOLE lot but even a bit of immune help is good.
[ 20 June 2002: Message edited by: fairnymph ]
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While on the topic of Antioxidants. I would assume due to MDMAs appetite supressing effects, most people who consume these antioxidants will do so on an empty stomach.
For maximum absorption, shouldn't these be taken with certain foods which contain necessary enzymes which assist in this process?
I guess it would depend upon the vitamin as to which enzyme (if any) helps absorb it.
I have some vitamins here, which are imported from the United States and are created using a Patented process which involves including frucose (fruit sugars) as well as other enzymes (I think) to help maximise absoption.
As well as these, I like to indulge myself in a nice refreshing glass of Barley Green as I recover from a hard night out. "Its just like drinking your vegetables"..
Barley Green Nutritional Facts
As well as BG, you can get wheat grasses and other powdered substances you can add to fruit juice and drink if you aren't able to stomach a meal.
I find taking both BG, 5HTP and antioxidants helps greatly in my recovery as well as B group vitamins to help increase absoption of 5-HTP. (B6 is it?)
[ 23 June 2002: Message edited by: krillsta ]
 
If you read the label/bottle on any decent vitamin supplament, they should all say "take with food"
The best vitamin supplament I have found so far is "Swisse" usually available from health food shops (and some supermarkets) - Swisse was designed by a guy (haven't got his name handy) with about 16 years experience and a PHD. There are 2 versions available, one for men, one for women. They both contain just about anything you can think of & a lot of things you didnt. There is a catch though, Swisse is a lot more expensive than your average vitamin, but it's worth it.
Other things to consider too are different herbs which have various properties, like Gotu Kola, Ginseng, Guarana etc.... Gotu Kola & Ginseng are meant to help revitalise the mind & memory.
Swisse Men's/Ultivite 60tabs
High potency one-a-day combination of vitamins and minerals with added anti-oxidants and herbs to protect the male reproductive system. BEST QUALITY MULTIVITAMIN ON THE MARKET.
Price:
$24.30
inc GST within Australia
www.swisse.com.au
[ 24 June 2002: Message edited by: Daimo ]
 
Yeh definitely bump BT,
Just wanted to say that another benefit of rocking Vitamins & Antioxidants is that it will help you fight off illness in the days after a big night out, when your resistance is lowered. You'd be quite silly not to want to get yourself in check with something as readily available as vitamins and antioxidants..
Oh and Krillsta, if you happen to read this any time soon, hold a batch of the Ole BG fer me when I get back to Melb, I think I may be needing it.
 
ive forgotten my souce butive heard something like centrum select 50+ does wonders against neurotoxity, any truth in that? just the same as a multi V?
 
Yep, Centrum is another good multi-vitamin. It does contain antioxidant's, though not in the amounts you want for this purpose. So by all means use Centrum, but think about taking extrra vitamin c and maybe some of the other antioxidant's listed too.
 
Feel the love people :)
Just a quick question..
Ginko Biola aids in the betterment of memory by allowing more blood to flow to certain parts of the brain (to my understanding). It is also an anti-oxident. Could taking ginko biola post roll prevent damage from being done to ones short term memory?
Any info would be much appreciated. :)
fb1 -- Master of Space and Time
 
Apparently gingko is indeed an anti-oxidant, so it may be helpful. I usually take it on the comedown and for a few days post.
 
this is in response to the question about Jasmine tea that was asked quite a while ago.
A close friend of mine that has Hep-C drinks loads of Jasmine tea due to it's cleansing/anti-oxidant properties. so yeh - it should do you some good.
 
Got just two comments to make here:
(i) Rats
(ii) Large doses, eg 10mg/kg
I don't want to can what is a fairly logical deduction to make on the role of antioxidants in reducing dopamine related MDMA neurotoxicity in humans, but the fact reamins that there is no proof that ANY of these substances make a difference.
From Erowid:
"there is no research in humans confirming that antioxidants block MDMA-specific oxidative stress, neurotoxicity, or tolerance".
"It is impossible, given the limited data, to know what levels of oral antioxidants might be required to reduce MDMA-related oxidative stress".
"The water soluble vitamins such as C and lipoic acid are quickly excreted from the body, so it is necessary to take them every 3-4 hours to maintain high levels in the bloodstream".
If you want to take antioxidant complexes, that's up to you. My only (admittedly unsolicited) advice would be not to do this at the expense of other harm-reduction measures that MAY have a more beneficial effect- things like taking regular breaks from MDMA use, not caning it 2 or 3 nights in a row, etc...
(buckles on asbestos suit)
 
If you want to take antioxidant complexes, that's up to you. My only (admittedly unsolicited) advice would be not to do this at the expense of other harm-reduction measures that MAY have a more beneficial effect- things like taking regular breaks from MDMA use, not caning it 2 or 3 nights in a row, etc...
That's actually very good advice, in that paragraph. I definitely recommend people to postload with vitamins, nutrients and anti-oxidants, but as a health benefit, not as a way to allow themselves to roll more often.
I don't think anti-oxidants will cause any problems, and a bottle of Vitamin C is like six bucks for a hundred tablets, so it's a cheap and easy addition to anyone's diet regardless of chemical intake.
BigTrancer :)
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exactly how much should humans (not rats consume), and how much at each point after the roll.
 
There is no way to work out exactly what doses might have similar effects in humans. As was pointed out earlier, there is no proof that antioxidant's reduce MDMA neurotoxicity in humans. But they won't hurt you, providing they are not used at the expense of other harm reduction measures like minimal usage of MDMA etc. I certainly never meant for people to read this thread and think a handful of vitamin c would mean they could happily neck 20 biccies every weekend and come off unscathed.:\

Anyhow, in the absence of any hard scientific data, here is what I personally do.

approx. 1 hour prior:
alpha lipoic acid (ALA)120mg
vitamin c 500mg
vitamin e 250-500 iu
magnesium 750mg
5htp 50mg
somtimes a multivitamin

with the pill:
ala 120mg

during, if convenient, and my stomach can tolerate it:
ala 120mg
magnesium if needed
5htp 50mg

on the comedown:
ala 120mg
5htp 50mg
vitamin e 250-500iu
vitamin c 500mg (often I can't stand the taste though, so I skip it)
I wash all that down with either a fruit smoothie or a B'fast drink. I would take a little more ALA than stated, as I do think it reduces the sketchyness/comedown, but it is really harsh on the stomach and I just can't face it.8o
 
I thought that I would share my trials of using antioxidants and other vitamins to help getting rid of that annoying scattered and brain drained feeling after consuming MDMA.

In the last year or so I changed the way that I take MDMA. I am a two pill every 1-2 month user, so i don't see my usage as up there compared to most of the people on this forum. Also I tend to drop at home as I am on my way out the door, so when I arrive at venue/club I am feeling teh goodness.

I used to drink 2x 600ml of Lipton Green Iced Tea before and after a session, i found this helped with the crappy hangover and scatteredness.

However after reading these forums and researching the negative side effects of consuming MDMA, I have become an even bigger pill muncher :D
IN A VITAMIN WAY THAT IS.

Around 2hours before I consume MDMA I usually like to have something light to eat that will digest quickly, like pasta or food to that effect, so it doesn't get in the way during the night. ;)

Taken an hour or so before consumption of MDMA:

1-2 Glasses of Red Grapefruit juice (NOT EVERYONES FAVORITE):)
1x Centrum Tablet Supplement Facts
1x Tablet of BOOST ENERGY - GUARANA, VITAMIN C AND B COMPLEX (EFFERVESCENT TABLETS)
Contains: Vitamin B1 15mg, Vitamin B2 15mg, Nicotinamide 50mg, Vitamin B5 25mg, Guarana 1000mg, Vitamin B6 10mg, Vitamin B12 10mcg, Vitamin C 1000mg, Biotin 150mcg
3x 500mg Vitamin C Tablets (ABSCORBIC ACID)
2x Evening Primrose Oil Capsules GLA 100mg (GAMMA-linolenic ACID or GLA)
2x 6mg Betacarotene capsules (BODY CONVERTS INTO VITAMIN A)
2x Magnesium Compound Tablets (Potassium Phosphate - dibasic 25mg, Sodium sulfate anhydrous 200mg, Magnesium phosphate 100mg)
1 or 2x 600ml Lipton Iced Tea (Commercial Green Iced Tea will have less antioxidants than home brewed but benifits will still be there.)

I don't usually get indegestion/Heartburn from this combo but my brother has a few times so i give him 1x TUMS and that clears him up.

Taken up to an hour or so after roll or getting home (sooner the better):

1x Tablet of BOOST ENERGY
2x 500mg Vitamin C Tablets
1x 6mg Betacarotene capsules
1x Magnesium Compound Tablets
2x 600ml Lipton Iced Tea
I also try and drink a few glasses of water aswell just for good measure.
I haven't tried 5 HTP yet as I am unsure as having read alot of stories about mad dreams. (I get get enough lucid dreams from sleeping when coming down)

I have had good results from taking these vitamin combo's, reduced hangover and overall a better feeling during a roll.

I am not a doctor or scientist, so I am not qualified to advise anyone to take vitamins, but it is stupidity not to research a little to try and lessen the negative side effects of MDMA consumption. I think people should not get the illusion that by taking large amounts of Vitamins it will enable them to take a massive amount of MDMA. Remember responsible use is the key, and if you value your grey matter you will be.

Cheers.

P.S. I know it's an old tread but maybe there are some people that need to read it.
 
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Apologies if this has been answered somewhere obvious but I have a question.

For those of you who take Vitamin C before taking MDMA, don't you ever find it diminishes the effects of MDMA?

This is an anecdotal experience but I have found that taking Vitamin C while I'm rolling will bring me back down to earth quite quickly.

I usually carry a 1000mg Vitamin C tablet with me when I go out and as a general rule will not take it until I'm absolutely sure I've had my last pill. It's also handy if I want to bring myself down off a particularly strong roll.

So for me, Vitamin C is never part of a typical preload, though I take lots afterwards if for no other reason than to boost my battered immune system.

Also, I'm unsure as to how often you have to take Vitamin C for it to be effective, I'm pretty sure there's conflicting advice around on this, there's at least one company that make time-release Vitamin C.

Anyone hazard to guess whether these might be more effective than one 500mg bomb where most of it just goes through your body and out again as urine without being used?
 
I'm pretty sure that "Vitamin C kills your roll" is a myth, possibly as an offshoot of the "Vitamin C can stop a bad trip" myth. However I could be wrong - I've just never noticed it having a negative effect. As I see it, if you *think* something is going to kill your high, it probably will - since so much of being on MDMA is related to mindset.

Vitamin C only lasts for a few hours, so it needs to be taken frequently. Whether it's more convenient for you to take a time-release pill, or have one 500mg tablet every few hours, is up to you.

LordMonkey, I'm interested to see that the Boost Energy tabs you take contain 1000mg guarana (AKA caffeine). Do you find this keeps you awake as you're coming down? I personally prefer to avoid all stimulants after E, mostly from fear of increasing neurotoxicity, but also because sleep is hard enough without them! :)

You could probably increase the amount of magnesium you take too - is it intended as an anti-oxidant or to reduce bruxia (teeth grinding)? I normally take 1000mg chelated magnesium (2 tablets, Nature's Own brand) at lunchtime, then 500mg more before going out. I've found this gives amazing results, as long as I give it at least 10-12 hours to become available (hence taking at lunchtime).

My pre- and post- loading schedule is almost identical to superbabydoc's, except I don't take any 5-htp for 24 hours prior, plus the superdose of magnesium I mentioned. I also prefer to take 1000mg of Vit C beforehand, but again this is just personal preference.
 
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