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  • BDD Moderators: Keif’ Richards | negrogesic

Why won't opiates work on me?

HERE Scroll about halfway down to find:

"CYP2D6 prodrug substrates: Cimetidine may decrease the levels/effects of CYP2D6 prodrug substrates. Example prodrug substrates include codeine, hydrocodone, oxycodone, and tramadol. "

Because basically codeine, hydrocodone, and oxycodone are insignificant agonists in their own right. They mostly just work as prodrugs for morphine, hydromorphone, and oxymorphone respectively.

So basically alt-14 you should have done opiates the whole time without the grapefruit juice and tagamet, as they basically destroyed all possible effects.
 
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Try drinking something with caffine in it after you take opiates. It helps more of the drug get into your blood stream. I used to have that same problem. Take 30-40 MG of hydro with no tolarence and feel nothing. Now if I take 25-35mgs and drink a mt. dew or something with caffine i feel it. I doublt this is placebo because Ive been doing this for the past 6 months and its worked everytime. Also someone in who is goin to school for parmacy said they sometimes put caffine in other drugs to help the get obsorbed into the blood stream better.
 
Bell Ringer said:
speculation, would be happy to post more articles if you can give a more researched reply.

BTW insufflation does not bypass first pass
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Yea it does. These metobolites might do little but don't do jack shit since there made in minute amounts.

EDIT-chloral am just reading your retarded links. You have no idea how opiates work. If you think by any means that oxycodone is a pro-drug for oxymorphone you don't deserve opiates infact you are the dumbest fucking person I have ever seen post. Oxymorphone is a minute metobolite of oxycodone so now you can fuck off don't repost anything in this thread as you have nothing to add to it.
 
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Retarded link? It's the medical university of maryland.

Look at it. It is a prodrug for the most part. It has very little agonist activity in the brain because the methyl group can't bind to endorphin receptors. Read the literature.

And it's not minute quantities, about 7-10% (depends on genetic variability) gets demethylated, which is why oxymorphone is about 10-15 times more potent than oxycodone. Same for hydrocodone/morphone and codeine/morphine.

You agree that codeine gets demethylated to morphine, right? Why should hydro and oxy be any different?

I agree about the first-pass though.
 
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chloral hydrate said:
Retarded link? It's the medical university of maryland.

Look at it. It is a prodrug for the most part. It has very little agonist activity in the brain because the methyl group can't bind to endorphin receptors. Read the literature.

And it's not minute quantities, about 7-10% (depends on genetic variability) gets demethylated, which is why oxymorphone is about 10-15 times more potent than oxycodone. Same for hydrocodone/morphone and codeine/morphine.

You agree that codeine gets demethylated to morphine, right? Why should hydro and oxy be any different?

I agree about the first-pass though.
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No, hydrocodone is mostly not a prodrug; it has plenty of its own activity as a mu agonist.
 
Let's stop these petty arguments. You're fine to dispute each others opinions but there's no need in being nasty about it.

OP - As others have said, try without using Grapefruit, Antihistamines and other such things.
Just take your Opiate/Opioids on their own. If you need to take an Antihistamine for itching or anything like that take them when the effects of the Opiate become apparent.
If you still have no joy then it's either a naturally high tolerance or an enzyme deficiency.
There's very little point in continuing to use them too because you may end up with a very useless addiction (more useless than they are already).
 
I diesgess

I said I was not sure. Also there are mucus membranes in the stomach, not to mention unless you are snorting a very small amount of a extremely water soluble substance (even then much gets swallowed) the only case where I am completely wrong concerns pressurized gas.



Dankycodone said:
Yeah it does you stupid fucking moron don't post if you don't have clue about a thing you are talking about. Chloral you really need to STFU also. These metobolites might do little but don't do jack shit since there made in minute amounts. Ask anyone here they will have the same opinion so STFU you noob.

EDIT-chloral am just reading your retarded links. You have no idea how opiates work. If you think by any means that oxycodone is a pro-drug for oxymorphone you don't deserve opiates infact you are the dumbest fucking person I have ever seen post. Oxymorphone is a minute metobolite of oxycodone so now you can fuck off don't repost anything in this thread as you have nothing to add to it.
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Yeah they all have some activity. I never said they're just "pro-drugs". But they are helped out strongly by the fact that they are, the question is how strongly. They are metabolized pretty quickly (half-life of a couple hours) and I think more than 50% of the activity comes from the demethylated metabolites, the prodrug aspect. After all, these codeinones metabolize very quickly (half life only like 2-4 hours).

Maybe somebody will find some studies that show receptor affinities of all three (codeine, hydrocodone, oxycodone), their conversion rates into metabolites (morphine, hydromorphone, oxymorphone), and the affinities of those. Then it will be evident just how strong they are in themselves and how strong they are as pro-drugs.

Until then there's no point arguing, it's just opinions and speculation. But I think we can all agree that taking antihistamines and grapefruit juice as "potentiators" is retarded.
 
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I edited my post I was having a pissed day after a mephadrone comedown. Anyway w/e I don't think It is really arguable that both of these drugs (hydrocodone, oxycodone) are pretty much the active minute amount of these metobolites which are created at different times don't have much activity if any at all.
 
If opiates don't work on you why do you keep trying them? Every time you try them you might start likeing them just a little more, feeling a subtle difference you didn't notice before.

But hell thats up to you. Just curious, do you get depressed often? Iv noticed a few people with naturally high opiate tollarances to be depressed, but that is just something iv noticed, nothing with any figures to back that up or mean its true.
 
I'm depressed but at the beginning of my Opiate use ~50mg of Codeine would effect me (enough to brighten my mood and take away my social anxiety).
 
I'll check that out

When I zm less geeked out, if I remember...:)

chloral hydrate said:
Yeah they all have some activity. I never said they're just "pro-drugs". But they are helped out strongly by the fact that they are, the question is how strongly. They are metabolized pretty quickly (half-life of a couple hours) and I think more than 50% of the activity comes from the demethylated metabolites, the prodrug aspect. After all, these codeinones metabolize very quickly (half life only like 2-4 hours).

Maybe somebody will find some studies that show receptor affinities of all three (codeine, hydrocodone, oxycodone), their conversion rates into metabolites (morphine, hydromorphone, oxymorphone), and the affinities of those. Then it will be evident just how strong they are in themselves and how strong they are as pro-drugs.

Until then there's no point arguing, it's just opinions and speculation. But I think we can all agree that taking antihistamines and grapefruit juice as "potentiators" is retarded.
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I have veen on an IV yayo binge for a while. Should probabably edit my post as well.


Dankycodone said:
I edited my post I was having a pissed day after a mephadrone comedown. Anyway w/e I don't think It is really arguable that both of these drugs (hydrocodone, oxycodone) are pretty much the active minute amount of these metobolites which are created at different times don't have much activity if any at all.
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shoolameet said:
this is how feel about opiates and this is why i have a problem with them.

op, be grateful you aren't affected by opiates and move on to something less addictive.
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I don't think using now and then is a bad thing. People just have to stop being retarded and doing it everyday. That will definitely make you dependent. Then again, something like hydrocodone you can use everyday without your tolerance going up too high...
 
Antidepressents

static_mind said:
If opiates don't work on you why do you keep trying them? Every time you try them you might start likeing them just a little more, feeling a subtle difference you didn't notice before.

But hell thats up to you. Just curious, do you get depressed often? Iv noticed a few people with naturally high opiate tollarances to be depressed, but that is just something iv noticed, nothing with any figures to back that up or mean its true.
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It is well known fact (fact could be an overstatement but it is widely excepted) that some opioids act as effective antidepressants in some people.

Some opioids (a broader temrm that includes opiates. Opioids are opiates the ones that occure in nature plus the semi-synthetics (ex. hyrdocodiende) as well as the synthetics (demeral, methadone, LAM.

In a rush sorry if spelling is bad, it is my weakest area
 
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