Why was Adam exempt from the transgression when the transgression was disobedience?

[swilow]

?

How can you know that when there are ancient great continents and civilizations that have come and gone (if you look outside our modern history books)? Where did the myth of "The Garden of Eden" come from?

There exists no physical evidence and, given our current understanding of planet earth, no real possibility that great civilisations existed before the human 'great' civilisation of the present and yet leave no trace. That is pseudo-history and absolutely not worth talking about as anything but a fable. Obviously, the garden of eden myth was merely inherited from early human civilisations.

I'm not sure this is the place to introduce completely borderline, largely discredited false-history. It is so overwhelmingly not true that it just serves as a distraction and thread-derailer.

 

[subotai]

there is no such thing as "Adam and Eve" because first off, if you believe that junk, we're all inbreds. All of us

secondly, they would have been black

thirdly, I dont recall snakes ever talking in real life

Native American stories are about equally outrageous as Biblical stories yet we all seem to understand that they are just that, stories meant to teach the audience a lesson.

somehow it became a way to get money out of people. who started that?

Jewish people.

whyd they kill Jesus?

because he didnt believe in paying up for salvation. He was trying to tell people they can find their own salvation through prayer.

it's always been about the cash flow. Organized religion is just a way to tax people who are too gullible to think otherwise.

so then the Catholic Church is formed and goes directly against everything Jesus was trying to do. But they painted some damn good pictures and built some impressive buildings with some of the money so who's to say it was wasted.

they also slaughtered millions of people and tried to control European politics with the threat of excommunication. It wasnt until the advent of increased literature (printing press), and increased literacy rates that people really caught on to the bullshit.

there were just so many people stuck in the traditional form of religion that they didnt know what else to turn to and truly believed they would burn in hell for eternity if they went against the church because the church held all the power until they DIDNT hold all the power.

All it takes is enough people leaving at the same time or enough powerful figures leaving and the Catholic Church is nothing.

within 30 years when all the die-hards, well, die, there won't even be much of a Catholic Church left in modernized countries. That is why they are all focusing on South America and Africa.

literacy rates, printing capabilities, poor areas who will take whatever help they can get.

it's all a giant scam

not to mention most Evangelical churches are in the Southern US and usually populated by people who can barely read. People in the south dont even know why they are racist, they just are because their ancestors were. people in the north are racist because it is a lot less segragated and a spade is a fucking spade

 

[Ninae]

Sumer was the cradle of our modern civilization. That's only how far back we've been taught, for some reason. But that doesn't mean there was nothing there.

And it's such a long time ago no one can say anything for sure about it either way.

 

[Xorkoth]

I've got no problem with people believing whatever they want about history, hell I'd love to believe in Atlantis and I have at times (though my idea of the timeline was somewhere around 32,000 years ago, not millions), in fact if we found evidence of it I wouldn't be surprised, nor would I be surprised if we never did. But to state these claims as fact spreads the idea as fact to other people, rather than as theory, and I can't buy any of it as fact until we have some kind of evidence that we can confirm with science. Science isn't perfect but it has taken us to the planets and stars, and down to the infinitesimal gears of reality. It's given us the ability to have a community like this. Science has given us SO MUCH, very little that we are today would be possible without it. I think claims of fact without scientific evidence are dangerous as well as self-limiting (because if you just believe something, without evidence, then facts are less likely to sway you). And it pulls people away from the scientific method (which is simply the process of logical deduction backed by consistent and verifiable real-world results).

I've read books on the stuff you're talking about, and I did not find any evidence in any of them, simply conjecture, often quite wild conjecture.

 

[Ninae]

Yea, only this isn't the SCIENCE board. You can speculate as much as you want.

By the way, I think Atlantis ended something like 30,000 years ago. I first came to the Earth as one of the founders of Atlantis and served in spiritual service throughout, as a priestess, healer, or oracle, etc. (Think I was more 5fth dimensional then). So I have a lot of good karma from that.

Also, Atlantis still exists in the 5th dimension, as a large part of the culture ascended.



I'll tell you an interesting story about Atlantis, at least entertaining, from a book written by someone who had gained access to his past-life memories (as some do).

He had once been a king or ruler of Atlantis. But at the time spiritual practices were very important, so they had one earthly ruler and one spiritual ruler, as both would be too much for one person.

Their official spirituality was like something like The White Brotherhood, where they would have holy ceremonies, and bring divine energy into the world, etc. A form of white magic and a focus on positive energies. So he had chosen one of his childhood friends as the spiritual leader, he was a good ruler, and it was all going well.

Then, one day he got trapped in a cave, and it looked like he was going to die there. He called on his friend and he appeared to him in his astral body and said he would send out rescue-aid immediately. So he waited and waited for 3 days but no one came.

Then just as he was going to die his friend appeared to him again and laughed and said he'd had him completely fooled all along. That he was really a black magician who was over 300 years old, but when he was a child he had transformed himself to someone his age, so that they would grow up together and he would trust him.

So he was just amazed by all of this, but then came the moment of his death, and Christ appeared with a terrible look on his face. First he looked at him and said, as for him he had nothing to say, then he looked at his friend and said something like "Now you're really going to get it". He asked why they hadn't intervened and stopped him before and he said because they wanted to see what he would do.

I'm guessing this was an ancient, powerful soul who had been good for most of his existence, and they wanted to give him the chance to turn around.

Interesting how it shows how Christ has been active throughout all of human history aside from his lifetime as Jesus. I once read he incarnated as the Indian god Shiva and would go out in the woods and fight wild beasts with his bare hands to train physical courage for his lifetime as Jesus.

 

[swilow]

Yea, only this isn't the SCIENCE board. You can speculate as much as you want.

Ninae, you can speculate scientifically also. Philosophy asks questions but they are not mere rhetoric; they require answering. Philosophy can be evidence based.

By the way, I think Atlantis ended something like 30,000 years ago. I first came to the Earth as one of the founders of Atlantis and served in spiritual service throughout, as a priestess, healer, or oracle, etc. (Think I was more 5fth dimensional then). So I have a lot of good karma from that.

This completely stifles rational discussion to me. You already have a thread stickied for alternative views; I don't understand why you feel the need to promote these views in such a broad way. My response is always going to be the same; show me some evidence! And its not unreasonable when you are asking people to believe that you are basically divine and special (like everyone else ). Sorry, a discussion MUST be two-sided (at minimum) and you are making it difficult to discuss by essentially insisting that you are not accountable for what you say.

Philosophy is not just making stuff up, and nor should spirituality be.

 

[Ninae]

I find it kind of funny how keep attacking me for making unsuitable threads (and that seems to include anything that doesn't fit in with your personal beliefs), when your thread about modern science disproving the existence of a God didn't exactly turn out that well, and didn't really belong here, or anywhere at all.

But this is what I mean about you maybe not being the best suited for moderating spiritual threads, as you seem like a Sceptic at best, and not like you have immersed yourself too deeply in this dimension of life. At least not with and open mind and maybe more to find a way to disprove the existence of it. Like someone who takes a look at the major main religions and quickly decides that this is all crap.

When there is so much more to look at, like philosopers like Pythagoras, great teachers and mystics like Peter Deunov, smaller, more unknown religions movements like Esoteric Christianity, modern-day spiritual ideas, like channelings, which vary in quality, and apart from that you can also have your own personal experiences, even if you can't really share them with anyone.

You seem like the type who, even if Jesus himself showed up in physical form with a full choir of angels behind him, still wouldn't see anything in it.

Why bother? This forum is not just for you and many reading are more spiritually inclined.


P.S. What kind of "evidence" are you exactly expecting?

The spiritual world doesn't work like that. You have to find your own way. That's the whole point.

 

[Xorkoth]

Using critical thought and looking for evidence does not indicate that someone is closed-minded or not spiritually inclined.

 

[Ninae]

The way he does does.

And I think anyone with half a brain can see I'm more qualified to speak of these things. Demanding evidence of the existence of a God. WTF? I think you have missed some things here. Even for Jesus getting to know God was a life's work.

Anyway, I don't write for people like that, so you don't really have to read it or comment on it. You can just ignore it and keep to what resonates with you instead of trying to stir things up. Leave well enough alone.

This forum has almost become a joke. There are almost no one here who believes in the spiritual life anymore. Why not change it to "The Philosophers and Sceptics" forum.

That way you'd also be well rid of me.

 

[swilow]

Ninae, in no way am I attacking YOU personally here. I'm disagreeing with your idea's in a (attempted) reasonable way. This is a forum for discussion, as you keep insisting, not a circle-jerk of tepid agreement. Perhaps it is telling that you've actually made a vast heap of incorrect personal assumptions about my own sense of spirituality which is unfair. I'm asking questions, which all thinkers and spiritual seekers (like you ) are also doing. That's what this is all about, to me- my reason to live, to find out as much about what I am doing here before the time comes when it is ended forever.

You seem like the type who, even if Jesus himself showed up in physical form with a full choir of angels behind him, still wouldn't see anything in it.

To contrary my dear, I would fucking love this. Do you think I'm mad enough to actually wishthis personalised, benevolent god does not exist?? I, like nearly everyone, would love this. However, I don't think this is meaningful at all.

Again, you try and judge me and completely skirt around what I SAY.

When there is so much more to look at, like philosopers like Pythagoras, great teachers and mystics like Peter Deunov, smaller, more unknown religions movements like Esoteric Christianity, modern-day spiritual ideas, like channelings, which vary in quality, and apart from that you can also have your own personal experiences, even if you can't really share them with anyone

I know! Its fantastic that there exist so many beautiful techniques to view the world I love that about life, that a person can sample the thoughts and minds of brilliant people and also think for themselves. I am as interested in this stuff as you are.

And I think anyone with half a brain can see I'm more qualified to speak of these things.

Ninae, you keep requesting that I don't talk in this forum and, now, that I don't even read what you are writing. Sorry dear, but that's not going to happen.

 

[Ninae]

Same here, unlike some I have the ability to be objective and don't hold personal feelings against someone just because they have other views, and that seems like a rare quality around these parts.

But your thread about science disproving the notion of a God doesn't belong anywhere in Hell. Even the demons are aware of God's existence, even if they don't like it. They reside in the 4th dimension and have access to much more knowedge about Creation than we have.

And is it too much to ask that this forum has at least one moderator who has had a personal experience of God (that wasn't induced by psychedelics)? As there must be many who come here looking for spiritual inspiration but that doesn't seem to have ocurred to so many of you.

To contrary my dear, I would fucking love this. Do you think I'm mad enough to actually wishthis personalised, benevolent god does not exist?? I, like nearly everyone, would love this. However, I don't think this is meaningful at all.

LOL. I was exagerrating or being ironic. It was just a humorous way of saying that no "proof" seems like it would be good enough for you and that it maybe doesn't come in the way you expect. Or do you think it comes easy to anyone?

 

[swilow]

^Yeah, I understood that you were being "humorous" but you were also incorrect. You should make more of an effort to read the content of posts instead of making hasty and vast assumptions. I don't disbelieve in god- I just disbelieve in the fairytale god of Christians/muslims/jews. The vaster, mightier divinity of the cosmos and the mind has always been present for me and that's what I believe in.

This is so far off topic now but I will continue this dance unto the end

Peace

 

[Ninae]

I mean you're maybe not the right one to moderate ME, as I don't believe in this "Fairytale" god either, and think I have looked into these things a bit more deeply.

 

[swilow]

^Ad hominem statements whereby you try and imply that your opinion holds more weight then mine are nothing but speculation as you don't/can't really know anything about the depth or breadth of my own interests in spirituality. How do you know how deeply I have looked into these matters?

 

[Ninae]

Don't really need to argue with you on that when I can demonstrate.

 

[swilow]

Ending tit for tat.

Peace

 

[Ninae]

Don't get on my nerves, I'm already cranky because of my benzo taper, and now I can't even watch Eastenders from last night and also having withdrawal symptoms from that.

 

[swilow]

^Good luck with the benzo taper- I've been there and know that it can be rough- take it easy Peace

 

[Ninae]

http://www.whoneedslight.org/page/20140916.html

This is certainly an interesting outlook at "The Fall" seen from the perspective of the Prime Creator of this Universe (or the one we think of as the highest god).

Although my head is starting to spin now from an overload of different ideas and theories about these things and others.

But at least this one gets an unusually high score in the entertainment department.

 

[abidin]

The true purpose of life!


[video=youtube_share;Wdhk2y6zFg4]http://youtu.be/Wdhk2y6zFg4[/video]