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Why so much defense for MDMA

^ It wasn't MDMA, but mushrooms almost directly brought me out of my MDMA induced depression.


I MIGHT have been able to gain those insights to my life and the direction it was headed without them... but I HIGHLY doubt it and it would have taken MUCH longer at the least.


Drugs are meant to help with our lives, but you are right they have a very large potential to hurt if not treated with respect
 
You must be slow, that was sarcasm, just repeating what you said.

"the same way it determines who is fit for war? how about only those that have a job, or that can drink alcohol 'responsibly'?

seriously outrageous post imo young fella."

Haha dang I usually play the sarcasm game well, must be slipping.
 
^^ Good post, interesting stuff. I agree that if you have a healthy lifestyle, MDMA is better tolerated. Wouldn't you agree that actually trying, I don't mean popping a pill, but I mean ACTUALLY trying to get out of your depression in a natural way (working on your social life in example) is the way to go compared to the slippery slope that is messing with your brain chemistry?

Oh absolutely.. and I am also a firm believer that most forms of depression can definitely be solved that way. Especially if the subject is willing to put the effort forth to maintain the lifestyle/state-of-mind. I watched my mom go in and out of depression for years because once she felt "happy", she slowly gave up on doing all of the things that got her there. Natrual cures are always the best. Definitely require more effort on the patient's part, but if you really want true, long-lasting happiness and contentment then yes I am with you - natural all the way.

The only reason I am so interested in neuropathy and the use of chemicals to battle illnesses like depression is for the subset of the depressed and mentally ill who simply CAN'T do it without some sort of drug therapy. Ergo - I like the idea behind MDMA assisted Psychotherapy because the idea behind it is to use the drug very cautiously and very sparingly to assist in figuring out the route of the problem, and then go from there with a primarily wholistic approach.

The other example I often give people is the idea of teaching a dog or any pet a particular trick. Haha.. I know it sounds cheesy but hear me out:

If you teach a puppy a trick you make them repeat it over and over and use positive reinforcement to build that specific neurological connection. Over time the repetition solidifies the connection by strengthening the myelin sheath around those particular nerves/neurotransmitters and it becomes automatic.

Now take that same pet and say the owner loses it and it is living in the wild for 4 years. If the owner were to find the dog and use the same command to try and elicit the old trick, the dog most likely wouldn't respond because over time that specific connection in its brain would have grown weaker and possibly even "broken".

BUT.. use the same positive reinforcement a few times and BAM it's as if the dog never forgot the trick at all. This is the concept of "re-awakening" a dormant neuro-connection.

Here's the point I'm getting at:

We were all little kids once. We all remember the elation and constant excitement that came along with being a child. Things like riding roller coasters, playing hide-and-go-seek, opening Christmas presents. Don't get me wrong, all of that stuff is great no matter how old you are... but man when you're a little kid it is like rolling times 100!!

Now.. this being said, that means that at some point in our lives those specific connections existed in our brains, and our brains were more than capable of releasing those chemicals in immense quantities, and therefore we were incredibly happy.

It's my argument that as we grow older and the stresses and unfortunate realities of the world; I.E. evil people, loss... MONEy... all of these things lead to the old neuropathways in our brains growing weaker and weaker, and in many cases to simply shut off.

I am a firm believer that MDMA, used properly, may have the potential to help people re-spark those old series of neuro-pathways that once allowed us to be so happy on such a regular basis; to the point where we didn't even have the ability to percieve depression because it didn't even seem possible.

Now.. it's our responsibility after the fact to help ourselves keep those same pathways active and make them stronger and stronger after they are "woken up".. but if MDMA can help us turn them back on, then I think it is foolish to not at least consider it as a viable option.
 
^^ Yeah I see what you are getting at, but there is more to it to happiness then just serotonin levels and chemicals though. Novelty and state of mind come in to play as well, along with ALOT of other things I don't understand or even have a simple grasp of, but if I'm reading correctly, are you assuming a child's serotonin levels when happy are comparable to one who is rolling? Can't say I believe that... haha. I'm slightly biased on the matter as well. MDMA has made me more depressed the last 2 years I've tried it.

A new drug with amazing promising features, more so then mdma, in depression treatment is MXE in my book. It's anti-depressant effects are instant, and are active at the tiniest dose (10mg's) and can persist for weeks after the use. It doesn't deplete any chemicals, it doesn't bring emotional instability that a comedown can bring, and it sure helped me a great deal in dark times, of course, this also has cons as it's more susceptible to abuse and psychological addiction then MDMA. If you're interested in treatment for depression though by using drugs, I think ketamine and MXE are ones to look into.
 
If you're interested in treatment for depression though by using drugs, I think ketamine and MXE are ones to look into.

Lots of clinical trials of Ket based anti-depression treatments are happening as we speak.
 
^^ Yeah I see what you are getting at, but there is more to it to happiness then just serotonin levels and chemicals though. Novelty and state of mind come in to play as well, along with ALOT of other things I don't understand or even have a simple grasp of, but if I'm reading correctly, are you assuming a child's serotonin levels when happy are comparable to one who is rolling? Can't say I believe that... haha. I'm slightly biased on the matter as well. MDMA has made me more depressed the last 2 years I've tried it.

A new drug with amazing promising features, more so then mdma, in depression treatment is MXE in my book. It's anti-depressant effects are instant, and are active at the tiniest dose (10mg's) and can persist for weeks after the use. It doesn't deplete any chemicals, it doesn't bring emotional instability that a comedown can bring, and it sure helped me a great deal in dark times, of course, this also has cons as it's more susceptible to abuse and psychological addiction then MDMA. If you're interested in treatment for depression though by using drugs, I think ketamine and MXE are ones to look into.

I haven't heard of MXE but if what you're saying is true then I'm definintely going to look in to it. I don't personally need it but certainly know plenty of people who could benefit from such a drug.

I'm not sure if the chemical levels in children's brains is comparable to someone rolling.. I'm guessing not, lol. I was just saying the first time I rolled the only thing I could compare it to in my past was how I felt when I was a child. How everything was so exciting and interesting. My theory is that the vast majority of us have been happy at some point in our lives, whether it was during childhood or not, so at some point our brains were in a balance that produced happiness and I think the goal should be to re-discover that state of mind, for those who are depressed especially.

Like you said - i don't pretend to know everything about even the tip of the iceberg when it comes to depression. It's an extremely difficult/complex subject, but I have spent a lot of time studying and working on the aspects that I have come to understand and it's lead me down some interesting roads as far as theories/opinions. The biggest thing is that EVERYONE is different. Just becasue something works perfectly for me or you doesn't mean it will work for someone else. It's the most fascinating as well as the most frustrating part about it!
 
^^ Yeah I see what you are getting at, but there is more to it to happiness then just serotonin levels and chemicals though.

MDMA's serotonergic action is just it's MAIN effect.. it effect almost every neurochemical in the brain.

Dopamine, norepinephrine, adrenaline, prolactin (THE ORGASM HORMONE), oxytocin (THE LOVE HORMONE), GABA and many, many other receptors are affected in someway by MDMA.



No other drug has such a complete effect on the entire brain (and body as well, considering serotonin controls digestion/heart rate as well as those other neurochemicals), which makes it a very likely candidate to help those that have neurological disorders. This same effect also causes it to be extremely more damaging that most other drugs, as it's effecting such a large portion of your body at once... but in moderation, this damage is nil.
 
"I am a firm believer that MDMA, used properly, may have the potential to help people re-spark those old series of neuro-pathways that once allowed us to be so happy on such a regular basis; to the point where we didn't even have the ability to percieve depression because it didn't even seem possible.

Now.. it's our responsibility after the fact to help ourselves keep those same pathways active and make them stronger and stronger after they are "woken up".. but if MDMA can help us turn them back on, then I think it is foolish to not at least consider it as a viable option."[/QUOTE] by ijustlovewikidrs

I remember us having a little debate before. Let me try to explain to you why your theory is flawed. Yes when you are rolling on MDMA you have all the joy and happiness in the world, seems like this is the answer you have always been looking for. And you often make promises to your self right? Why was i so upset with my self, i'm never going to be sad again i love everyone / everything. You feel like a little kid again, gaining enjoyment from every little thing .

But then you wake up the next day, or 2 days later when its suicide Tuesday. Do you really feel any sort of those feelings you were feeling the night before. Are you still motivated to be on top of the world, and love everyone you see in the street? The answer is no, it was all a false promise to your self in the moment when your brain was releasing all sorts of chemicals.

People may re-spark those old series of pathways that allowed them to love life so much, but that is only while rolling. I don't see how releasing most of your serotonin / dopamine and everything else all in one night allows you to gain a better enjoyment in life for the following days / weeks. It just doesn't make sense, you will be left with a lower level of happiness than before. This is all science

I'm not against people rolling, but when people look for a hard neurotoxic stimulant to re spark their happiness for the long term it will only end in misery. (Now i prepare to be flamed :o )
 
MDMA's serotonergic action is just it's MAIN effect.. it effect almost every neurochemical in the brain.

Dopamine, norepinephrine, adrenaline, prolactin (THE ORGASM HORMONE), oxytocin (THE LOVE HORMONE), GABA and many, many other receptors are affected in someway by MDMA.



No other drug has such a complete effect on the entire brain (and body as well, considering serotonin controls digestion/heart rate as well as those other neurochemicals), which makes it a very likely candidate to help those that have neurological disorders. This same effect also causes it to be extremely more damaging that most other drugs, as it's effecting such a large portion of your body at once... but in moderation, this damage is nil.
I think acid's effect is pretty "complete" :p
 
^ LSD effects mainly the 5-HT receptors, with a lower affinity to dopamine related receptors. It's effects may feel complete, but as far as actual receptor activation goes it focuses on select parts of the brain.


(anyone please feel free to correct me if that's wrong, once the discussion starts getting into chemistry I'm not always accurate)
 
Well most people attribute the "MDMA receptors" to only being the 5-HT (serotonin) receptors, when in reality it is MUCH more complex than that.

The "love" feelings from MDMA are likely not caused from serotonin, but Oxytocin which is released during breast feeding to help mothers connect with their babies...


That's the kind of magic people talk about with MDMA that other stimulants like meth just don't have
 
OP - You should try going to PD and telling them that psychedelic experiences can be bad, bad things..

"Psychedelics show you the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth"

No, sometimes they lie. Sometimes they lie so hard it can damage your mental health.
 
The "love" feelings from MDMA are likely not caused from serotonin, but Oxytocin which is released during breast feeding to help mothers connect with their babies...

True say.. Oxytocin is released when certain (or enough) 5-ht1a (i believe) receptors are hit.
 
No, sometimes they lie. Sometimes they lie so hard it can damage your mental health.

It all depends on the mind set friend :)


Personally, and from my experience, pyshedelics and MDMA teach you two different lessons. Those lessons intertwine, no.. they synergize, but they are still different from one another.


Mushrooms and LSD taught me a LOT about myself and how I view the world, MDMA really helps me connect with other people and realize I'm not alone in this... both of them together and I feel like I get all the messages however!


I guess it just depends on what you are looking for at the time.
 
It all depends on the mind set friend :)


Personally, and from my experience, pyshedelics and MDMA teach you two different lessons. Those lessons intertwine, no.. they synergize, but they are still different from one another.


Mushrooms and LSD taught me a LOT about myself and how I view the world, MDMA really helps me connect with other people and realize I'm not alone in this... both of them together and I feel like I get all the messages however!


I guess it just depends on what you are looking for at the time.

Don't get me wrong.. They have the ability to be very helpful, personal tools.. but that's not always the case for everyone.. they also have the ability to mess you up negatively; Depression, PTSD, anxiety, derealization, depersonalization, etc, etc. This can happen regardless of set and setting.
 
^^^^^^ Sometimes I wish I would have never touched a psychedelic. I would have never known what derealization, depersonalization and anxiety felt like.
 
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