Opioids Why Opiate addicts opt for Methadone?

[K-OSS]

I never understood the UK culture of giving those who were dependent on opiates methadone, because its addictive and just as bad as the drug they're trying to come off. It like, having a 1st degree burn, and then deciding to turn that 1st degree burn into a 3rd degree burn to take away the pain by burning it more. It makes zero sense to me.

Plus, on many occasions some opiate addicts still keep taking the opiates so then they become addicted to two drugs. So, isn't the better policy either make them go cold turkey, or just give them damn opiate they're addicted to and do a slow and gradual dosage reduction. All these opiate addicts who opt for methadone treatment are being taken for a ride by the pharmaceutical industry. All they're doing is making you addicted to something which the government provides by paying the drug companies which manufacture the methadone. They want you off the illegal stuff and onto the legal stuff. The UK drug policy is a fail, the options on the table should be, choice of cold turkey or slow and gradual reduction of the opiate they're already addicted to. Am a strong proponent of all drugs being made legal and taxed, so that helps with income to the treasury via taxation and also providing care for addicts through a proper program. I don't know why many states believe that if they make all drugs legal all of a sudden the whole population will be drugged up. It doesn't work like that.

 

[BIGsherm7272]

Because most of the time the reason they are getting on methadone is not to quit opiates, it is used as a maintenance drug to keep the person from getting sick or having bad cravings, and at high enough doses it will block most other opiates in theory. It also has a long half-life so you only need to dose once a day. It also has stable plasma levels with no huge peaks or drops, therefore making it rather suitable for someone needing a maintenance medication, especially for those who had very large tolerances. Sometimes buprenorphine just isn't enough to satisfy cravings and help with pain as much as methadone does.

 

[bennyZA]

It like, having a 1st degree burn, and then deciding to turn that 1st degree burn into a 3rd degree burn to take away the pain by burning it more. It makes zero sense to me.

Using this metaphor, I think I can explain it to you. It's like having a 1st degree burn and turning into a 3rd degree burn to take away the pain BUT that's your only option, either 1st or 3rd. Which is better? Obviously no burn is the best, but that is just not feesible for some people. You can say what you want, but sometimes it just isn't possible. For some people maintaining gives them their life back. Even though they're technically using, they don't have to deal with any of the negative effects of the lifestyle.

 

[K-OSS]

Using this metaphor, I think I can explain it to you. It's like having a 1st degree burn and turning into a 3rd degree burn to take away the pain BUT that's your only option, either 1st or 3rd. Which is better? Obviously no burn is the best, but that is just not feesible for some people. You can say what you want, but sometimes it just isn't possible. For some people maintaining gives them their life back. Even though they're technically using, they don't have to deal with any of the negative effects of the lifestyle.

but my point still stands, then you're addicted to two drugs. Why would you want to become addicted to another drug? What if the government decides to pull it? Then what do you do, you pretty much can't take a holiday either, since you need a daily dose of methadone. Don't you see it, you're being chained and you're letting them do it to you. Sometimes, it might just be better to crash and take the pain and get it over and done with, rather then avoiding the inevitable. Or, they simply don't have the intention of quitting opiate use and just want to use the methadone because its free to keep off the rattle. And then back to opiates once they have the money.

Personally I don't believe the government gives two shits about a few thousand addicts, they'll soon pull the plug on the methadone and leave them high and dry, either they'll have to keep up an expensive habit or just simply quit. I know its easy for me to say, just take the pain and quit, being a drug user myself i.e. cocaine hydroclodie I sniff it, I have no intention of stopping, because I can afford to use it. If I didn't have the money then simply I'd not use it, yeah I'd get psychological hangover, but not doing cocaine is like not smoking weed, I put it on the same addiction par as weed. Like and I go through grams of it on my binges. But then again I have upper middle class wealthy family. maybe its different for others who don't have that kind of disposable income.

 

[Jackeh]

I don't think you become addicted to two drugs. You just maintain your addiction to opiates in general.

E.g.

Paul is addicted to heroin. Paul has a bad habit and doses several times a day. If Paul stops injecting he will go into withdrawal, which he doesn't want. Paul also really wants to quit heroin. Instead of continuing his habit, he can take methadone instead of heroin, which will stop his opiate withdrawals and it is an easier to maintain addiction.

If Paul then decides he finally wants to quit opiates in general, he can taper off the methadone to minimise withdrawals.

Pretty sure it can work like this unless I misunderstand methadone treatment.

 

[K-OSS]

I don't think you become addicted to two drugs. You just maintain your addiction to opiates in general.

E.g.

Paul is addicted to heroin. Paul has a bad habit and doses several times a day. If Paul stops injecting he will go into withdrawal, which he doesn't want. Paul also really wants to quit heroin. Instead of continuing his habit, he can take methadone instead of heroin, which will stop his opiate withdrawals and it is an easier to maintain addiction.

If Paul then decides he finally wants to quit opiates in general, he can taper off the methadone to minimise withdrawals.

Pretty sure it can work like this unless I misunderstand methadone treatment.

Lower doses can prove ineffective at providing the necessary blocking effects for maintenance or detox treatment cycles. Thus the dose must be increased until the therapeutic threshold of the medication is met; some patients can be prescribed as much as 325 mg of methadone a day. - wiki

That is what cases addiction to methadone, some people are misinformed, about methadone, and then they end up becoming addicted to methadone. Of course you can just shoot up heroin and avoid the symptoms of methadone or do it the other way around. But either way, methadone is addictive. So in my opinion if you'd better off doing a slow gradual reduction off, of opiates the opiates you're taken rather then introducing a new addictive chemical. Some users take their methadone does and then also shoot up a heroin later on in the evening. So I don't know why methadone is supposed to help.

 

[Lady Codone]

It's not just the UK that uses opioid-substitution therapy. We do it in the U.S. too. From my understanding, methadone is a longer-acting drug than street dope or pills, which allows patients to take it once a day and still function without having to focus on the next fix every few hours. It's also less euphoric and thus less prone to abuse (though it certainly CAN be abused).

Many addicts say methadone is twice as hard as heroin to quit. Every treatment has pros and cons I guess.

 

[Mr.Scagnattie]

Lower doses can prove ineffective at providing the necessary blocking effects for maintenance or detox treatment cycles. Thus the dose must be increased until the therapeutic threshold of the medication is met; some patients can be prescribed as much as 325 mg of methadone a day. - wiki

That is what cases addiction to methadone, some people are misinformed, about methadone, and then they end up becoming addicted to methadone. Of course you can just shoot up heroin and avoid the symptoms of methadone or do it the other way around. But either way, methadone is addictive. So in my opinion if you'd better off doing a slow gradual reduction off, of opiates the opiates you're taken rather then introducing a new addictive chemical. Some users take their methadone does and then also shoot up a heroin later on in the evening. So I don't know why methadone is supposed to help.

Sure it would be easier to just taper off of whatever your opiate of choice was you were addicted too in a psychical and time saving sense.... but the nature of addiction makes that option impractical. It's almost impossible for an addict to have enough will power to do less and less of their drug of choice to execute a successful taper... they are just going to take more and get high.

The other downside to this, and why drugs like methadone and buprenorphine are used instead for tapering/maint, is that drug of choice opiates like oxycodone and heroin have a very short half-life, making it necessary to redose frequently throughout the day, as soon as 5-6 hours for a lot of people.

With something like methadone, which has a very long half-life, it allows users to break the cycle of addictive using (multiple times a day), because it only needs to be taken once. The user can thus start breaking the habit of constantly looking for another dose during the day and start learning how to live a normal life. You also only have to go to the clinic to get doses in the beginning... then you get "take-homes" which you can use to dose yourself at your own house.. a week's supply or month, etc.

Every user is given a choice when starting methadone. It is up to them to decide how long they want to stay on the program for. They also have the choice of going into a residential detox and using methadone as a 5-7 day detox without maintenance afterward. (Again, the reason why methadone is used in detoxes is because of it's long half life).

Yes, methadone withdrawal is worse than shorter acting opiate withdrawals like heroin... however, at least with methadone and also buprenorphine (which is a great alternative to methadone and preferred by many people) it allows the user time to break the habits of addiction, maintain a real job, stop stealing for drugs, and be much much safer. Is it a perfect solution? No, not at all.. nothing is. However, it has worked and continues to work for a lot of people.

 

[Halif]

Yes, methadone withdrawal is worse than shorter acting opiate withdrawals like heroin... however, at least with methadone and also buprenorphine (which is a great alternative to methadone and preferred by many people) it allows the user time to break the habits of addiction, maintain a real job, stop stealing for drugs, and be much much safer. Is it a perfect solution? No, not at all.. nothing is. However, it has worked and continues to work for a lot of people.

That's it exactly. It's breathing space. A window of opportunity.

Or, simply a way for someone to get their fix without having to resort to dangerous or illegal actions.

All these opiate addicts who opt for methadone treatment are being taken for a ride by the pharmaceutical industry.

You're assuming that everyone who goes on a opioid maintenance program wants to stop using. Some people don't want to stop, and going on a program like this can make it 'official'. For people are truly addicted and dependent on opiates/opioids, this is something that can be a huge relief. Personally, i think it's good that there's such a program in place, and that there is a choice.

It's far from ideal to be totally dependent on a drug, but for some this is actually a decision they make consciously. I can say that I don't want to stop using. Despite the negatives, I still get too much from opiates to let them go. They work better than any other med I've ever been prescribed and allow me to function quite normally.

 

[dopemegently]

Methadone is a full agonist, and it has a very long half-life, which makes it a prime candidate for a substitute drug. Of course, it will not block other opiate agonists, and urine tests are very easy to cheat, so it's not ideal. In the UK, methadone is beginning to be seen as a stop-gap solution; the idea is to stabilize the "chaotic" addict using methadone, gradually reducing them to 30mgs (I believe), before starting them on suboxone. From there, they may be reduced relatively quickly, or they may be on subs for a very long time; there are many addicts who have used for most of their adult lives, and in some cases abstinence simply would have little chance of success. I attended an abstinence-based rehab clinic 2 years ago, and within one year of finishing treatment 80% of my peers were back to using; I'm not exaggerating here.

 

[BlueHues]

There's a lot of people on Bluelight who are intelligent and capable of formulating reasonable opinions based on accurate information.

The problem is: A lot of you have absolutely no firsthand experience with a drug like heroin in real life, and you're drawing all your "knowledge" from whatever you can find on a search engine, which can hardly be considered reliable, accurate information.

I wouldn't call you "ignorant" so much as "ill-informed"...

Your reasoning, and the way you think things should be according to your ideals have nothing to do with the reality of drug use in the "real world"....

It's just incredibly irritating to me....

 

[busterthe hampster]

hi im back on methadone, 50 mls of green liquid a day.. been on and off it for 7 yrs.. ever since i touched brown.. it DOES help if u want it 2 help u.. it kills offa great deal of the opiate buzz which we all crave, and personaly myself when i take it each morning it lifts my mood.. makes me motivated.. ive come of it before and wds are horrible but if u do it gradually it can b done.. xanax and valium are my drugs now.. im a cunt 4 dem lol

 

[dopemegently]

BlueHues, I'm not sure who you're comments were directed towards, but yes I agree with you; there are many on here who have in-depth " text book" knowledge of the drugs, but little first-hand experience. Personally, I never post about drugs I have no experience with, unless I'm researching one I haven't tried. I became addicted to dihydrocodeine at fifteen, progressing to morphine and heroin injections by the age of 18, then bupe maintenance by 21 (all the while experimenting widely with anything I could get my hands on), which I'm still on, among others. So yeah, "searchbar drug experts" can be annoying for sure, but I'd like to think I'm not one of them considering my personal drug experience, and if I'm wrong about any posts I've made, then I'd be the first to admit it.

 

[Welderman]

Obviously the OP has never been addicted to opiates. You do dot become addicted to methadone you are already addicted to it because it is an opiate. If it was that easy to just taper off heroin,oxy or whatever opiate one was taking we would all be clean and opiate free. Sounds good in theory but in the real world it doesn't work. That's why we have Maintinace drugs and I am thankful they are around. Also if you are a heroin addict or any opiate addict with a large habit you are not going on vacation anyway because it cost to much to bring enough of your drug and not overindulge before the trip or the fist few days of it. It is pretty much guaranteed the more dope you have the more you use.
Why don't you just ban over weight people from eating junk food.

 

[-Guido-]

Methadone Maintenance should not be looked at as an addiction. Is a a diabetic an insulin addict? No. They are insulin dependent.

Methadone gave me my life back along with my health.

 

[RTrain]

I never understood the UK culture of giving those who were dependent on opiates methadone, because its addictive and just as bad as the drug they're trying to come off. It like, having a 1st degree burn, and then deciding to turn that 1st degree burn into a 3rd degree burn to take away the pain by burning it more. It makes zero sense to me.

Plus, on many occasions some opiate addicts still keep taking the opiates so then they become addicted to two drugs. So, isn't the better policy either make them go cold turkey, or just give them damn opiate they're addicted to and do a slow and gradual dosage reduction. All these opiate addicts who opt for methadone treatment are being taken for a ride by the pharmaceutical industry. All they're doing is making you addicted to something which the government provides by paying the drug companies which manufacture the methadone. They want you off the illegal stuff and onto the legal stuff. The UK drug policy is a fail, the options on the table should be, choice of cold turkey or slow and gradual reduction of the opiate they're already addicted to. Am a strong proponent of all drugs being made legal and taxed, so that helps with income to the treasury via taxation and also providing care for addicts through a proper program. I don't know why many states believe that if they make all drugs legal all of a sudden the whole population will be drugged up. It doesn't work like that.

There are examples of people who used methadone as intended to stop using opiates (by slowly tapering off a dose that matche their physical dependence) and there are plenty of people who use it as a pure maintenance with no plans to stop, but still don't abuse other drugs. The pluses are numerous for why being on methadone is better than being on heroin. For one it is not crippling the user financially. Two, its an oral medication, no need to IV and risk infections and other IV related health issues. Three, its dosed once, maybe twice, a day. So it helps eliminate that habitually need to use every 2-4 hours. Four, less money going to the "illegal" drug market and reducing crime involved with it. And five, the purity is known and risk of OD is reduced.

I have a friend who successfully used methadone to stop a 400 mg a day oxycodone habit. He may have relapsed once when his mom died, but other than that he stuck to the program and got clean with it.

I am not saying methadone is the best choice for an addict, but better than getting heroin of the street. Now there is the case of how studies have shown reduction of the opiate the person is on thru a govt program or doctor works better than methadone. I could see a few issues with medical heroin replacement for a heroin addict. How would they know the person is not using additional heroin on top of what is being given for the maintenance program? You can't drug test to do this, of course they should be positive for heroin, so I think that is where the idea falls short.

Sorry but I have to comment on this because I have seen people use it many times... The comparison of opiate maintenance drugs to insulin for diabetics is a bit skewed. I am sure if that comparison was made to a type 1 diabetic they would be insulted. They need the insulin, they get no pleasure from it, it just keeps them healthy. But I have an idea, go up to a insulin dependent diabetic and tell them about how you can relate because you need to take methadone everyday.

 

[sandytrail]

BlueHues, I'm not sure who you're comments were directed towards, but yes I agree with you; there are many on here who have in-depth " text book" knowledge of the drugs, but little first-hand experience. Personally, I never post about drugs I have no experience with, unless I'm researching one I haven't tried.

You know, there is some grain of truth in what you and BlueHues say. But I think posting as someone with extensive experience has downsides, too. For such a person, the drug may have been the center of her life for many years. Because of that, the persons erroneously thinks she has a lot of expertise on the subject.

But that's problematic: a sample size of one (or of one person plus his circle) is nothing you can generalize from. There are so many variables that can differ from subject to subject. Plus an individual may well be biased in her opinions. A researcher with in-depth knowledge of medical science, pharmaceutics, statistics, etc., may be in a better position to draw inferences from theory and from the data (where data refers to samples of size much larger than one).

Again, I think there is a grain of truth to what you say. It can be annoying when somebody who doesn't have personal experience, doesn't have degrees in a relevant field, doesn't have other pertinent experience (such as professional experience from a drug-related job), yet posts in an authoritative tone about the stuff he read off Wikipedia, Erowid, or about the little "theories" he made up. But this doesn't change the fact that personal experiences remain anecdotes. More interesting anecdotes than those by the googling kid, but anecdotes still.

tl;dr Personal experiences are often times more interesting to read than the half knowledge of non-using googling kids, but personal experiences remain anecdotes from which you cannot generalize.

 

[weekend addiction]

I almost got on methadone but they kicked me off before I started for missing an appointment. I wasn't physically addicted to them but I took opiates 4-5 times a week on average and was very psychologically dependent on them. I quit without the subs or done. But I do insist on kratom occasionally. I can't totally get past the whole opiate thing. I still wonder how my life would have been on subs\done.

 

[RTrain]

I can't imagine they would even consider methadone if you were not physically dependent on opiates. Sounds like a good way to make the situation worse.
Did you have to lie and say you were physicallly dependent?

 

[RTrain]

There's a lot of people on Bluelight who are intelligent and capable of formulating reasonable opinions based on accurate information.

The problem is: A lot of you have absolutely no firsthand experience with a drug like heroin in real life, and you're drawing all your "knowledge" from whatever you can find on a search engine, which can hardly be considered reliable, accurate information.

I wouldn't call you "ignorant" so much as "ill-informed"...

Your reasoning, and the way you think things should be according to your ideals have nothing to do with the reality of drug use in the "real world"....

It's just incredibly irritating to me....

Sadly this is the viewpoint of many people on the use of methadone.

You know opinions are like assholes, everyone has one.