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Why NOT to vote Lib this year

Labour is certainly the worse of Two Evils ... I'll be voting for the Greens and encourage everyone around me to do the same, the more seats, the better. I like Bob Brown and his reasons for joining the greens, he's not a full blown tree-hugging idiot.

As a young student, I'm shocked when I meet someone of my age and financial situation that votes liberal. My roomate grew up in the exclusive eastern suburbs and is a lib all the way, because her daddy is a lib .. did i mention that she drives a peugeot, has a credit card, a $600/week allowance and just bought a new laptop because she didnt know how to fix the sasser worm on her old pc. <---- these are the type of fuckers that benefit when the liberals are in power.
 
If only all this talk wasn't going to end up like the 'Medicinal Marijuana' simpsons episode. (they all forget to vote - if ya havent seen it)
 
Now I like to consider myself a pretty balanced person, but on the subject of politics..... I've compiled a few things that helped me make up my mind...

8 of about a billion good reasons not to vote liberal this year:

1) Johnny lied about tampa and the children overboard saga

2) Johnny lied about not introducing a GST

3) Johnny lied about the WMD's in iraq

I THINK WE CAN SAFELY ESTABLISH THAT JOHNNY IS A LIAR

(which really, in itself, should be enough to stop you from voting for him or his party. how the hell can you trust someone to rule you who lies?)

4) Johnny wants to ban gay marrage

5) Johnny wants to bring in an FTA with the united states

6) Johnny keeps refugees from the COUNTRY THAT HE HAS SENT TROOPS TO "LIBERATE" LOCKED UP IN THE DESERT WITH NO OPTIONS.

7) Johnny is bushes "Man of steel" <== NUMBER UNO OVERBEARING REASON I AM NOT VOTING FOR THIS FUCKER OR HIS NASTY PARTY EVER

8) Johnny's been censured twice in his 7 1/2 years in office.
censured = "An official rebuke, as by a legislature of one of its members." [dictionary.com]

Not convinced yet?

Head on down to this page and read about some of howards amazing work during his time in office, no really, it's interesting to see whose back these goddamn neo-liberal economic rationalists like to scratch 1984 anyone?

everything stated above is my opinion, it may be wrong which I hope it is cause the extent and sneakyness of these bastards really scares me.

Hate my views, i care not. but for god, allah or any other dietys sake...

PLEASE VOTE GREEN OR LABOUR

cartoonhowardandIUncleSam.jpg


PLEASE VOTE GREEN OR LABOUR
 
1) They shouldn't have been trying to gain ILLEAGAL entry to our country in the first place.

2)Get never actually said he WOULDN'T introduce a gst, and more impotantly who cares, it's not lke it's made a huge difference anyway.

3) WMD is a loose term, Suddam was a WMD, he needed to be removed to prevent more killings in that shitty little country.

4)It's already banned, and whilst I'm not against it, why should it be legal?

5)Good, it will boost our economy

6) Well that's not cool, and I accept that point.

7) I think you all fail to see the need for us to ally ourselves with America. They saved our asses in WW2. Besides that if we aren't with them many countries would look upon our lovely land with intentions of war. Better to be a bootlicker that be faced with that situation.

8) Good.

LABOUR is a party of do nothing politics. We only have to look at Steve Bracks, he has done NOTHING for Victoria but sit by and occasionally break promises that he made to get into power. Vote Liberal, keep Australia safe...
 
ButrosButros_Grantos said:
1) They shouldn't have been trying to gain ILLEAGAL entry to our country in the first place.

2)Get never actually said he WOULDN'T introduce a gst, and more impotantly who cares, it's not lke it's made a huge difference anyway.

3) WMD is a loose term, Suddam was a WMD, he needed to be removed to prevent more killings in that shitty little country.

4)It's already banned, and whilst I'm not against it, why should it be legal?

5)Good, it will boost our economy

6) Well that's not cool, and I accept that point.

7) I think you all fail to see the need for us to ally ourselves with America. They saved our asses in WW2. Besides that if we aren't with them many countries would look upon our lovely land with intentions of war. Better to be a bootlicker that be faced with that situation.

8) Good.

LABOUR is a party of do nothing politics. We only have to look at Steve Bracks, he has done NOTHING for Victoria but sit by and occasionally break promises that he made to get into power. Vote Liberal, keep Australia safe...

8o You purile moron! 8o

Most of that is hopeless mish mash.

1. Yes, they tried to gain illegal entry to this country. Did nick deny that? No. The point he is making is Howard lied to get re-elected. That is not excused by the fact they were trying to gain illegal entrance to this country.

2. Do you have ears? Not even Costello could deny that Howard said there will never be a GST in this country. And there is. The matter of the GST is irrelevant. The point is he fucking lied! I'll say it again; the GST doesn't matter, they point is he lied about it. It's not a huge difference! You're right about that! No one said it was! But that doesn't excuse the fact he lied about it!

3. Saddam had no WMD. You're right - WMD is a lose term. And considering how lose is it, what does it say that they couldn't find anything to show to us as "WMD"? I mean, seeing as it's such a lose term and all.

4. Matter of opinion.

5. For the second time in this thread, you've displayed your complete lack of economic knowledge. Why do you think that the FTA didn't go ahead? Because it wasn't going to be any good for our economy. Even Howard knew that. No economic benefits could be found for Australia. And here you are saying there were economic benefits?

6. Your one redeeming admission.

7. Clearly you have studied no history. The USA do not just get involved in wars, and gambling that they will help us no matter what is risky. Yes, they won WW2 for the allies. But they did not get involved to save us. We were already fighting in Europe before they got involved. In June 1941 we invaded Lebanon and Syria. We were already under threat from the Japanese. They got involved because of Pearl Harbour (December 1941), and they ended it with the atom bomb. At no point were we a consideration. So I really don't see how you're justifying the need for an American alliance?

People like you shouldn't be allowed to vote :\
 
^^ My, you must hav really thought that position through 8(

1) They shouldn't have been trying to gain ILLEAGAL entry to our country in the first place.

2)Get never actually said he WOULDN'T introduce a gst, and more impotantly who cares, it's not lke it's made a huge difference anyway.

3) WMD is a loose term, Suddam was a WMD, he needed to be removed to prevent more killings in that shitty little country.

4)It's already banned, and whilst I'm not against it, why should it be legal?

5)Good, it will boost our economy

6) Well that's not cool, and I accept that point.

7) I think you all fail to see the need for us to ally ourselves with America. They saved our asses in WW2. Besides that if we aren't with them many countries would look upon our lovely land with intentions of war. Better to be a bootlicker that be faced with that situation.

Good.

LABOUR is a party of do nothing politics. We only have to look at Steve Bracks, he has done NOTHING for Victoria but sit by and occasionally break promises that he made to get into power. Vote Liberal, keep Australia safe...

1/ There wouldn't be as many people seeking asylum through unconventional methods (illegal is a false and misleading description of their status, Australia is a signatory of an international treaty that obliges it to accept refugees that arrive on its borders. Most of the people detained in the "pacific solution" have since had their refugee status recognised by a court of law and been duly released. The Howard government acted illegally and unethically out of a sense of cynical political expediency, it was a significant low in our recent history) if Australia was upholding its responsibilities under international law and filling the already paltry refugee intake quota of 12,000 people, we weren't even doing that.

The majority of refugees came from Iraq and Afghanistan, both countries were at the time subject to military action against them by the ADF, in the case of Iraq there had been sustained action against it by Australians for over ten years. Our defence force was actively involved in creating conditions that forced these people out of their countries, yet we couldn't even be so grascious as to grant them asylum while we tore down their societies.

2/
JOHN HOWARD: There's no way that a GST will ever be part of our policy.

REPORTER: Never, ever?

JOHN HOWARD: Never, ever. It's dead. It was killed by the voters in the last election.

http://www.abc.net.au/am/s146852.htm


But there is a grain of truth in your assertion that the GST was no big deal (at least, if you're not running a small business that is 8)), it wasn't as big a deal as the less heralded Ralph reforms to capital gains tax, which were a much more integral part of the new tax regime. If you think that these reforms were in any way fiscally responsible then I suggest reading the articles I posted on the first page of this thread (not that I think you will, you don't strike as the reading type)

3/ "A loose term", ie. a blatant lie to engage Australia in an illegal war of aggression, for which a government should be rightfully held accountable. There was no humanitarian interests for this war, Iraq was chosen as a soft target to demonstrate the US' capacity to project its power at will and establish a secure, permanant presence in the region for it's Central Command, formerly situated in Saudi Arabia. It was a war of propaganda with specific long-term geo-strategic goals towards world domination. Don't believe it? Well, ask yourself why Bush is surrounded by people affiliated with The Project for a New American Century

The Project for the New American Century is a non-profit educational organization dedicated to a few fundamental propositions: that American leadership is good both for America and for the world; that such leadership requires military strength, diplomatic energy and commitment to moral principle; and that too few political leaders today are making the case for global leadership


4/ Because, for example, heterosexual couples are effectively discriminated against by Centrelink and such because they are forced to live under man-and-wife status where they receive a combined payment that is less than they would get singly, whereas gay couples who live with all the same benfits of a of supporting one another as a normal husband and wife but are treated as single people by the goverment. How is this situation in any way fair?

5/ What apollo said...

6/ Yet turning them away from our shores at gunpoint is ok?! Imprisoning them illegally in a third-country and removing their rights under international law is ok?! You have a strange sense of morals...

7/ There is nothing in the ANZUS "alliance" that guaruntees protection to Australia in the face of attack. It is a meaningless document for us... Not to mention that the "alliance" could actually prove to be an impediment to Australia's economic growth, for example on insistence on tarriffs and government subsidies (corporate welafare) for protecting the heavilt protected oil industry will eventually cause us to fall behind the world in new technology because we have been to busy defending the interests of big business to partake in the advent of green technologies.

Just how are the Libs keeping us safe, pray do tell? Job security has fallen over their tenure, regional antagonism has been heightened against us, through the capital gains tax reforms they have overseen a shift in focus of household spending from long-term stable investment to a taxpayer subsidised orgy of short term speculative investments; which in turn triggered the housing bubble and forced the Reserve Bank to put the brakes on the economy through lifting interest rates to the highest real-time rates in the world and causing the $A to balloon, a burden being borne by Australia's export industry.

I think I need a new fridge magnet, i ain't feeling to safe-and-comfortable 8(
 
well, i think ntc and apollo safely rebutted butros, but middle finger: why? is it just latham? then why not vote greens? why should we vote for bigoted, ignorant, conservative cunts like howard?

surely the fact that our economy might improve does not justify *EVERYTHING*? i'd love to see our economy improve, but certainly not at the rights and liberties of homosexuals, immigrants and all the other minorities that howard seems to hate so much...
 
i personally think that *all* government is totally screwed and no one can ever do 100% right by all people.

i don't particularly like liberal but i think they have done an ok job running our country (although i don't agree with their policies of no homosexual marriage amongst others), i don't really like labor, just for the fact that i don't really like the whole handout *working class huh yeah right* thing for people who don't deserve it (i *hate* seeing my taxes go to fucking 15 year old shits who have decided that living at home is too hard etc...) anyway i'm not really that informed about politics, just know what i can pick up here and there so please dont flame me.....

i would like to vote for the greens but in some ways i think thats a bit dangerous as well, i think someone who has never run the country before may stuff it up more than help it, but hey they could run it great who knows?

but on another note, there should be a party that takes care of the middle class people....not the rich people who dont need it, or the slack ass people who cant be fucked working....we need someone who takes care of the people who want to work, and struggle to pay their bills :)
 
onetwothreefour said:
but middle finger: why? is it just latham? then why not vote greens? why should we vote for bigoted, ignorant, conservative cunts like howard?
Nuh, it's not just Latham.... I thought Simon Crean was a dick too. Personally I like John Howard and I will be voting for him next election. My hate for Labor started with Bob Carr and now I just vote Liberal, every time, regardless. If I ever see Bob Carr in the street I'm going to deck him.
 
8)

Aww, look at the little baby have a spit over nothing.

Let me guess middle finger, it's tough being middle class and white huh? :p
 
8)

i'm guessing ^^^^ was directed at me.

i didnt say that it was hard to be white and / or middle class, and i wasnt saying that they were the only people who were "hard done by" or whatever. simply stating it sucks that some people who want to work and want to make a good living and bring up a family find it hard to do and a little help from the government wouldnt go astray....

*edit* just re-read...maybe that wasnt too me?
 
Sorry, I thought it was pretty clearly directed at middle finger :)

I don't agree with your opinions either, but you've substantiated them so it's none of my concern. What bothers me is how proud this middle finger chap is of his evidently completely uninformed and rash political decisions.
 
Mega kudos to apollo and killarava2day! You guys are on the ball...

Butros: Again, with all liberals (need I say all conservatives), you completely miss the entire point of my argument. JOHN LIES Isn't it plain enough for you? I'll say it again JOHN LIES. One lie here, one lie there, what can you trust and what can you believe?

Butros, you sound like one of those "New American Century" types. If thats really what you want for Australia, for us to always be "2nd Rate" against the US, then you have less of a right to be here than those "illegal immigrants" that you so adamently oppose....

I don't want AUS becoming the 51st US State. People who want american stuff should MOVE TO AMERICA!

I WANT AUSTRALIA TO BE AUSTRALIAN. NOT AMERISTRA, NOT AUSMERICA. A U S T R A L I A.

FTA will fuck us over in SO many ways. You have no concept of what we will lose if we are drawn into an FTA with the states...

The Liberal party seeks to make us closer lapdogs of the US administration, look at how much we are giving up if we sign an FTA.

Besides that if we aren't with them many countries would look upon our lovely land with intentions of war.

Thats because the liberal government is too concerned playing with the big boys on the OTHER SIDE OF THE FUCKING WORLD than developing strong economic and political ties with our neighbours. Having mates on the other side of town will NOT help you if your nextdoor neighbour is kicking down your door! Instead, if we make friends with our neighbours, then why should they look upon our land with these intentions? You liberals are ruled with FEAR!

Middle finger: Vote green. check their drug policy, damnsight much more intelligent that the liberal party. If you vote one guy just cause you hate the other, vote green.

You libs get me so fustrated with your ignorance. Stop believing the government spin and look further than your TV.
 
kryalkastleE said:


i would like to vote for the greens but in some ways i think thats a bit dangerous as well, i think someone who has never run the country before may stuff it up more than help it, but hey they could run it great who knows?


It's that kind of view which keeps this country as a two party system rather than the multi-party system it allegedly is...

Come on it's only for 3 fucking years and if a government made extremely radical changes that didn't benefit the masses would not the masses revolt? (Well they didn't against Howard so probably not)
 
Munted -
ohnny Howard that I like, he stands tall (I realise the irony of this comment) and stands by what he believes no matter what. ..Whereas Latham's bullshit "get votes wherever I can, fuck

John Howard in the 1980's
"we should pull Medicare right apart", "get rid of the bulk-billing system"

Then skip forward to this 1995 interview -

Oakes: "Do you guarantee that Medicare would not be touched under a Coalition government?"
Howard: "We absolutely guarantee the retention of Medicare. We guarantee the retention of bulk billing…"

A promise he couldn't even keep, bulk billing is almost 20% lower than when he took office, medicare has lost its universality. Its being stripped. Slowly.

Or the most obvious example "never ever" for a GST. 1 year later (and in office) and he was planning a GST.


You may think Latham is just chasing votes, but hes not followed howard in denying his long held views and ideology to do so. Lathams a politician like any other. But he says what he believes and he fights for it.




marcs131
it was question time and howard, costelle and other party members made the labour party look amateurish, immature and inexperienced.

Ohh this government is confident alright. Arrogantly so. Still its not unusual, the first time labor took office in 1904 the former conservative treasurer screamed "what are those men doing in our seats", i expect many a Liberal to be crying the same thing in a few months as well.


But lets get back to question time, I work at parliament house recording the pollies, sitting in an audio booth at the back of the chamber, or working one of the cameras. So let me tell you how it really is. It may look impressive, but no more than a high school play. It works one way - The government gets to deliver a speech each time, its opponents can only ask a 30 second question.
Then its even further stacked heres how :

1 - Questions from Labor/Minor parties .
These are the tougher ones, but since the speaker (ala the referee) is chosen by the liberals and cowered by the PM controlling his job, theres no compunction to actually answer the question. The answer invariably goes
"Well you may want to talk about XX today, but what about XX in 1984' or some other period during labors 13 yr rule. Its not hard to find a statistic from that period to throw back at labor, ones like interest rate or unemployment can be applied to any issue. "You want to talk about the poor doing it tough... well what about when they faced 17% interest rates..."

Hardly a valid response to labor questioning homeless rates in 2004 i think you'd agree.


Then comes the part the government really like

2 - Questions from Back benchers. dorothy dixers. (after a newspaper columist who was accused of answering "readers questions" that she wrote)
Every question time i see Ministers walking up to the back of the chamber and giving a sheet of paper to a backbencher. Then suprise suprise 30 mins later the back bencher gets up and asks a question like
"whats the current government policy on X, can you describe any alternative policies'

With X being an issue under control of minister who gave them the question, and 'alternative policies' meaning labors policies. And so the minister gets up, thanks the backbencher for their 'keen interest in the subject' and then delivers a set speech attacking labor. Either on current policy or on some incident labor touched in the last 20 years.

With the government speaking for 95% of Question time its not hard to look dominating. Imagine if on this forum, you could only ask brief questions, and I could respond for as long as i like , however i liked, and i get to choose the moderator. What impression do you think people would get of my ability over yours ?

Unlike this open debate here, question time is a stage play with actors.


-------
DrShrink
Political Animal - http://auspolitics.proboards23.com
 
Middle finger: Vote green. check their drug policy, damnsight much more intelligent that the liberal party. If you vote one guy just cause you hate the other, vote green.
I'm voting for Liberal because I like John Howard. I want him as our PM for the next 4 years. I don't intend to waste my vote either.

What bothers me is how proud this middle finger chap is of his evidently completely uninformed and rash political decisions.
I made those random statements just to annoy you Labour voters... I know who I'm voting for and I have my reasons, not just because I don't like Latham. As if I could be bothered trying to convinve you that I'm right. Everyone has obviously made up their minds.

Just curious....
Do you think we should withdraw our troops from Iraq now?
Do you think we should allow ILLEGAL immigrants into the country?


I know you will probably want to argue with me more, but I don't give a shit.... politics bore me.
 
i don't think we should withdraw our troops, because i think now that we've made such a fucking mess of it it would seem kind of wrong to bail, and leave them in chaos effectively. that said, i'd like to see the way we're dealing with stuff changed a helluva lot.

and yes, we should let illegal immigrants in - with a particular system (which does not involve locking them up hundreds of kilometres from anywhere) put in place to help integrate them or transfer them to a satisfactory place to live. i think the fact that the vast majority of "illegal" immigrants only do so because they're fleeing war torn countries (and if anyway thinks they wouldn't use every method you could to get *your* family out of such a situation, then they're either lying or a cunt) makes it seem -to me- that their actions could not at all be treated as bad as they are.
 
I'd like to go wading into this debate, but time is short and exams are a bitch :)
However, I will say this. If you are currently not on the electoral roll, then get on it as soon as possible. The next election is rapidly approaching... My cash, for a variety of reasons, has the govenment slating it for August 7 (bets anyone?). Which means they will be announcing it soon. Once Canberra announces the electoral date, they will close new voter registration citing rather dodgy concerns regarding ballot fraud. This primarily affects the youth. So, regardless of who you prefer in charge, it pays to just get on the roll, now. Shit, even I would prefer you vote liberal rather than not vote at all ;) (unless you are like killarava2day, whose views I can respect even if not comprehend).
Here is the enrolment form:
http://www.aec.gov.au/_content/what/enrolment/forms.htm
An article dealing with this issue in a little more detail:
On April Fools Day 2004 the Howard Government introduced an electoral bill into Parliament that could disenfranchise hundreds of thousands of electors who might not vote for the Coalition at the 2004 federal election (Electoral and Referendum (Enrolment Integrity and Other Matters) Bill).

Conventional wisdom on the hard right has it that left-leaning voters can be found not only in the ranks of the so-called latte-sipping "elites", but also amongst the young and the socially disadvantaged, the poor, the homeless, prisoners, and aboriginals. And they know who you are. MPs and political parties are provided with the electoral roll in electronic format, including all your personal details, and they match this data with any other database they can lay their hands on. They have you demographically mapped, and have a fair idea from polling booth records how you are likely to vote, especially if you are interesting enough to be enrolled in a marginal electorate.

The right wing ascendancy in this country is intent on fixing the federal electoral system to its advantage by amending the Commonwealth Electoral Act 1918 to remove as many politically incorrect voters from the roll as it can. Its easier to win an election when you can bias the electoral rolls in your favour. Just ask our PM’s mate, George W Bush, who profited greatly in Florida from rigged rolls that excluded many blacks and prisoners, not to mention a clapped out voting system, brow-beaten electoral officials, and a stacked supreme court. Voters better be very alert when Parliament resumes or we can kiss our world-class electoral system goodbye…

When this bill is debated in the next few weeks, you can expect such liberal luminaries as Eric Abetz, Nick Minchin, Jeannie Ferris and Christopher Pyne to spread alarm and confusion with their terrifying tales of electoral fraud. You will hear that "it is easier to enrol to vote than to hire a video at the local store", that the rolls are stacked with cats, dogs and other imaginary voters, that hackers have invaded the computers and that electoral staff are biased and incompetent. The sky is falling in, we must not cut and run, we must "tighten up" the electoral system (and sacrifice more of our hard-won rights), in order to prevent electoral terrorism from the usual suspects.

You will be told that the only way to avoid this impending electoral disaster is by making it more difficult for young people to enroll for the first time, by closing down the rolls for new enrolments at the issue of the writs, instead of the usual seven days after, by requiring provisional voters, including itinerants and aboriginals, to prove their identity at the polling booth, by making assisted voting more difficult for the disabled and those who cannot read and write, and by winding back the franchise for prisoners. In all the sound and fury about rampant electoral fraud which will accompany debate on this bill, and which will be echoed abroad by a lazy and compliant media, you will hear very little about the internationally recognised merits and strengths of our electoral system (Canada and the UK have recently reformed their electoral systems to mirror many significant aspects of Australian electoral law).


For nearly two decades a group of cranky old right-wing reactionaries from the leafy suburbs of Sydney, such as Dr Amy McGrath of the H S Chapman Society, and cheered on by Alan Jones, Christopher Pearson, Paul Sheehan, and Professor David Flint, have been leading the assault on the integrity of our electoral system, with a relentless avalanche of electoral fraud allegations after every election (none of which has ever been proved) and loopy suggestions for "reform" that would take the franchise back to the dark ages. This small but useful constituency has been carefully nurtured by the Howard Government and rewarded with sympathetic publicity through ministerial press releases and parliamentary committee hearings.

The H S Chapman Society is still apparently unable to cope with the bipartisan electoral reforms made in 1983 which included the creation of an independent statutory authority to administer elections and referendums, reduced political interference in boundary redistributions and campaign financing, and improved the franchise through various technical amendments, such as the introduction of division-wide and provisional voting. Dr McGrath and her friends want to roll back the electoral reforms of 20 years ago, which they argue, against history, has benefited one side of politics over the other. McGrath insists that the secret ballot must be watered down with the introduction of "limited vote tracing" to deter electoral fraud (which it wouldn’t), and that there should be a return to an "English village" model of enrolment and roll maintenance, where everyone knows everyone else on the electoral roll for their suburban area. That way no-one can have their vote counted until the lace curtain brigade gives the nod. So much for the voting rights of the great unwashed in this wide brown land.

Allegations of electoral fraud are made by Dr McGrath and her friends in voluminous submissions to every post-election inquiry by the parliamentary Joint Standing Committee on Electoral Matters (JSCEM). The Australian Electoral Commission has responded to each and every one of these allegations in minute detail, and its submissions are published on the AEC website, but the same old discredited allegations are repeated year after year and recycled without question through the media, predictably undermining public confidence in the electoral system. The Howard Government now sees its chance, having softened up the electorate during the 2001 JSCEM inquiry into electoral fraud, chaired by a very hungry Christopher Pyne, and is set to make major "reforms" to the electoral law that could seriously erode the franchise. Your franchise. And heaven help the various electoral authorities who will have to establish and administer the new law in such an irresponsibly short time frame before the 2004 federal election.

Fortunately, there are a few political heavy-weights in parliament who are awake to the pending Howard Government electoral fix, including ALP Senators Faulkner and Ray, and Democrat Senators Murray and Bartlett, who sit on the JSCEM from time to time, and we can probably expect some senior journalists, who can read a parliamentary submission, not to be snowed by what is about to hit the fan. For readers who might be interested in finding out how their electoral system is about to be comprehensively whacked by the Howard Government, the 2004 electoral bill is available on the Parliament House website, and relevant AEC submissions to the JSCEM can be found on the clunky AEC website under "parliamentary submissions"

[Clicky]
 
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