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  • BDD Moderators: Keif’ Richards

Why makes phenibut you emotionally smarter?

logarithm

logarithm

Bluelighter
Joined
Aug 11, 2012
Messages
62
When taking phenibut I can much better socialize. I have the impression that I 'see' the other person much better. But also I can 'see' myself better. It's like I have a broader range of emotions but also more control about them. What's the mechanism behind that emotional capability improvement? Theres only russian stuff which I don't understand.

And is there a drug which has similar effects and perhaps doesn't as quickly causes tolerance or other nasty stuff?
 
Do you mean you experience more empathy for others, feel more social, feel emotions more strongly but feel more able to control them or not be upset by them? Phenibut decreases anxiety, it is a GABA agonist (like alcohol or benzos), and increases dopamine. Some preliminary research has also suggested it may be nootropic. So it sounds like your effects may be explained by lowered anxiety and decreased inhibition. I don't know about any similar drugs that don't cause tolerance, dependence or side effects.
 
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yeah. that's a pretty good describtion. Can you tell me what brain regions get activated or more inhibited? I'm really interested in how this stuff works. And do you know how much this is comparable with alcohol? Is the mechanism from alcohol any different?

I was reading in a study that in russia they sometimes medically use it for a pretty long time in doses up to 2g or so. As I read that I felt like people in the forums are overexaggerating the dangers of phenibut. Also I asked a doctor which told me that its similar to baclofen which for him doesn't seem to have lot of dangerous potential.

Why we don't have already any substances which stop any tolerance developing processes? This can't be so complicated mechanisms which differ from substance to substance. That's so weird... why our brain even has that habituation mechanisms? So we are always fortune pursuing fucks.
 
Trust me when i say that you dont want to see what would happen if drug based solutions to joy, happiness, freedom from pain and the cure for any emotional hurt came without some downsides, moderating factors, reasons to ensure a temporary use etc. The world would be very different, unrecognizable, in fact any progress would most likely have stopped upon discovery, there would be no purpose for anything really, it would be a slow, fun filled and happy, but absolute certain end to that entire race. Thank fuck nothing is ever perfect and lasts forever, it would make existing totally pointless.

On point, i also ordered me some of this stuff, saw alot of good things, then alot of meh, not sure what to expect but one dood said its epic combined with Kratom, best legal high ever experienced, so i hope and wait.
 
logarithm said:
And is there a drug which has similar effects and perhaps doesn't as quickly causes tolerance or other nasty stuff?
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that would be Baclofen I presume, an prescription medication, or perhaps GHB/ GBL. The positive effects of Phenibut are quite different then the sedating effects of benzodiazepinen. The "see myself better" effect could be your subjective description of what I would call an general good mood. But I am aware of such an effect and find it having some resemblance to GHB/ GBL. Al be it way more controleable then the latter. Maybe got something to do with Gaba-b?
 
SwimmingDancer is spot on in my estimation.

Anxiety can be so distracting preventing you from being able to perceive and appreciate a lot of nuances both in other people and in yourself and reducing or eliminating that distraction can go a long way in freeing you up to be able to interact and introspect with more depth and clarity.

It really is unfortunate that phenibut use is so beneficial for you because of the steep cost that physical dependence can produce but if SD's and my estimations are accurate, then you could likely get these same benefits from anything that helps reduce your anxiety and boosts your mood. Getting into routines with great diet and exercise, finding other supplements to reduce anxiety and boost your mood, exploring other non-drug treatments such as CBT and otherwise addressing the reasons you have the anxiety and finding more sustainable ways to cope with it may very well produce the same benefits at little to no cost.
 
blight12 said:
Trust me when i say that you dont want to see what would happen if drug based solutions to joy, happiness, freedom from pain and the cure for any emotional hurt came without some downsides, moderating factors, reasons to ensure a temporary use etc. The world would be very different, unrecognizable, in fact any progress would most likely have stopped upon discovery, there would be no purpose for anything really, it would be a slow, fun filled and happy, but absolute certain end to that entire race. Thank fuck nothing is ever perfect and lasts forever, it would make existing totally pointless.
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Why should we feel bad when everything is different, unrecognizable and theres no progress but in fact when it feels good?

Cane2theLeft said:
SwimmingDancer is spot on in my estimation.

It really is unfortunate that phenibut use is so beneficial for you because of the steep cost that physical dependence can produce but if SD's and my estimations are accurate, then you could likely get these same benefits from anything that helps reduce your anxiety and boosts your mood. Getting into routines with great diet and exercise, finding other supplements to reduce anxiety and boost your mood, exploring other non-drug treatments such as CBT and otherwise addressing the reasons you have the anxiety and finding more sustainable ways to cope with it may very well produce the same benefits at little to no cost.
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That's good advice, which I will follow or I'm already following. At the moment I'm searching for a good CBT therapist but I was reading that this apporach in combination with a medication can be more effective. Also I can't imagine that the improvement noticed on phenibut is possible without a substance. I was reading about SSRIs which usually are prescribed for anxiety issues but then I read "Emotional side-effects of selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors: qualitative study". And it seems that these substances might lead to a general numbing concerning range and intensity concerning negative emotions, also might affect negatively positive emotions especially the
[...] intensity and frequency of e.g. excitement, enjoyment,
happiness, love, affection, passion, enthusiasm[...]
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I was talking to a doctor which told me that this is often reported to him by his patients.

The experience, I have when taking phenibut is impressing. It seems that I get a gain in personality, not a loss, like reported by patients taking ssris. Ok probably someone taking ssris for anxiety issues will report also a gain in personality. But I can't believe that only reduction of anxiety is causing that much of a gain....

Is there any possibility to find out how phenibut works to see if the nootropic effects come from anything else than the removal of anxiety or a good mood?
 
The problem I see in answering your questions is that you're seeking an objective answer for your subjective experience.

For example, if I have a fever and I take an antipyretic (fever-reducing) medication, my temperature can be objectively measured and you can determine if the medication reduced my fever and by how much. When it comes to what you're describing however, there are not standardized measurements to quantify what you're asking about so without precise understanding of the physiological changes that are resulting in the psychological effects you are experiencing, there is no way to answer your questions.

The human psyche is highly complex and a multitude of internal and external factors produce individuals' affect (feelings and emotional state). In clinical psychology, the view on personality is that it is essentially set from a young age and absent catastrophic physical or mental disruptions, stays mostly static through the lifetime. Essentially, by definition, your personality is the aspects of you that DON'T change and your affect is what does. I just wanted to clarify those terms because it's hard to discuss topics like these when we use terms in very different ways.

Because I really don't have a precise understanding of what you mean when you say that phenibut produces a 'personality gain' for you, I can't begin to speculate to the physiological mechanisms underlying the effects you are experiencing. What IS well-documented is that phenibut produces anxiolytic effects through GABAb agonism and improves mood likely due to enhancing dopamine.

There is no way for any of us to say exactly what is producing the effects you are experiencing but in my opinion, given the education I have on these topics and the consensus on phenibut's psychopharmacology, I would say it is largely or exclusively due to the physically and mentally calming effects and mood boost that allow you to see things more clearly. You likely can achieve the same essential benefits by reducing anxiety and boosting mood in any number of other ways although those probably won't feel exactly like phenibut.

You certainly raise some valid concerns about the use of SSRI's in treating anxiety and they are definitely not the best options for everybody but fortunately there is a very long list of different ways to treat anxiety with other medications and/or more sustainable methods such as CBT and other interventions that address the root-causes rather than just masking the symptoms with drugs.

Some other medications regularly used in the treatment of anxiety including other classes of antidepressants such as TCA's, SNRI's, MAOI's; anticonvulsants such as pregabalin, topiramate or lamotrigine; unique anxiolytics such as buspirone; sedating antihistamines like hydroxyzine; beta blockers and of course the gold-standard: benzodiazepines.

Usually SSRI's are the first-line of treatment because, compared to a lot of drugs (especially benzodiazepines), they have a relatively low-incidence of side-effects leading to discontinuation however the view on this has been shifting in recent years with better understanding of the physical dependency they can produce as well as the sexual side effects.

You are absolutely right that the use of medications alongside CBT can be useful, especially initially, however the best option (when possible) is always finding ways to treat the CAUSE of the anxiety and sustainable, non-drug ways to manage it. Since this isn't an easy, overnight process for a lot of people, finding a medication to reduce their symptoms while they learn effective strategies like CBT is often the best course.
 
i know what the OP is talking about..phenibut makes me less inhibited, it also allows me to think much faster on my feet, im more quick-witted...phenibut is like Ghb in the way it calms you yet also stimulates you..i am much more social on phenibut than i am sober..phenibut seems to have that 'pro-social' kick to it like GHB..it also seems to help you feel more empathetic and content with the world around you..i found it to be a powerful anti-depressant but it had a tendency to fog my head up..it was hard to watch movies and focus on them while on pheni..it also started messing up my sleep patterns..i had to get off..

sadly benzos do not produce the same 'personality enhancement' that phenibut does..benzos actually make me a very dull person tbh...nt isnt simply a decrease in anxiety in which OP wants, he wants the pro-social, empathetic kick...the only other drugs i have taken that were similar to phenibut are GHb and to a lesser extent, neurontin..both come with problems though...
 
^ I am not sure if benzos lower dopamine but they are one of the few drugs abused that do not increase it so I think you're essentially correct.

I wonder if this effect of phenibut that people are reporting occurs due to pre-existing anxiety or maybe other issues. I have tried phenibut in a range of doses and social contexts and never experienced these effects but I don't have anxiety.

Can anyone else relate experiences on these effects or can the 2 in this thread possibly elaborate on their experiences? I'd love to hear more.
 
^^the 'pro-social' effects are separate from the anti-anxiety effect..i have found i can totally eliminate my anxiety but im still just not a naturally social person..give me phenibut or ghb and i turn into a social person..whether its due to gaba B or something else, im not sure...with me though, a decrease in anxiety for me does not make me more social on its own, as i said, with benzos, im less social..im not sure whats going on here either i wish we could get an experts view on this..
 
belfort said:
^^the 'pro-social' effects are separate from the anti-anxiety effect..i have found i can totally eliminate my anxiety but im still just not a naturally social person..give me phenibut or ghb and i turn into a social person..whether its due to gaba B or something else, im not sure...with me though, a decrease in anxiety for me does not make me more social on its own, as i said, with benzos, im less social..im not sure whats going on here either i wish we could get an experts view on this..
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Same with me exactly.

Phenibut also helps me study and I think it improves my memory retention. Every year my school lunch number changes; I would ALWAYS forget it every few weeks and have to look it up. On Phenibut, I NEVER forget it. And I've used Phenibut LOTS at school. When I'm not on Phenibut, it's difficult for me to remember it.

I could be wrong. but that's how it feels. It certainly doesn't have a negative effect on my memory, until I dose so high that the world is spinning for 2 days and I wanna throw up.
 
I was just being a dick.

There's a difference between elegant social speech (social lubricant, if you will) and being emotionally smart.

Firstly, emotion and intelligence don't go together. At all.

Secondly, wit is an offshoot of the two. It's far more complex than I feel getting into at this hour with a head full of bogus cocaine and a messianic mission. I'll return.

Point granted though.

Will leave this:

I'm a 4 year benzo addict and nothing rivals phenibut withdrawal and tolerence rates and the ferocity and speed upon which they unwittingly and inevitably overcome and destroy you. Same goes for baclofen. Just a warning.
 
Thou said:
I was just being a dick.

There's a difference between elegant social speech (social lubricant, if you will) and being emotionally smart.

Firstly, emotion and intelligence don't go together. At all.

Secondly, wit is an offshoot of the two. It's far more complex than I feel getting into at this hour with a head full of bogus cocaine and a messianic mission. I'll return.

Point granted though.

Will leave this:

I'm a 4 year benzo addict and nothing rivals phenibut withdrawal and tolerence rates and the ferocity and speed upon which they unwittingly and inevitably overcome and destroy you. Same goes for baclofen. Just a warning.
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How does the length of withdrawal from Phenibut compare to that of Benzos?
 
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