Misc Why is synthetic marijuana so addictive?

[Flow]

One of my very close friends is struggling with an addiction to synthetic marijuana and it fucking tears me apart. He was down to $80 in the bank and used $40 of it to buy two bags of k2. He can easily go through a bag a day and I just don't know what to do. He lives in a smaller town that doesn't have a headshop, and he'll travel an hour and a half to my city just to buy some.

Whenever he smokes he basically becomes incoherent, can hardly form sentences without forgetting what he was talking about a few words in, and passes out for an hour just to wake up and smoke again. Even though it makes him fall asleep, he cannot sleep without it. He'll wake up at least once an hour to smoke so he can pass out again. He's also acquired a horrible sounding cough. And not to mention it makes his sex drive absolutely non-existent. If he goes without it he breaks out in a cold sweat, loses his appetite, gets a horrible stomach ache, and becomes extremely depressed.

Before he was addicted we would have so much fun together. He would actually want to go out and do things like a normal person. Now all he does is sit around and smoke.

I have NEVER seen any drug cause a person to react like this before. I've had friends hooked on meth and honestly this shit worse. How is this stuff still legal???? I wish they would take it off the shelves of every headshop. To me the high is too overwhelming and makes me feel like all my veins are going to explode out of my body. Luckily I'm not on papers like my friend, so I can still smoke that great green (which makes me appreciate the herb so much more!).

 

[RobotRipping]

yeah that's what strong cannibinoids will do; just stop wait for him to stop smoking them, the withdrawals from it aren't that bad but there will be a few days of adjustments before he gets back to normal/ The high is intense and overwhelming if you can handle it then nothing can touch it that's what makes it addictive but you can go still go back to getting regulaly stoned and enjoy it afterwards, just withdraw from k2 for a week or so and try cannais then.

i have seen plenty of people have the exact same reaction, even myself, eventually he'll realize that what he's doing isn't as worthwhile or as fun as smoking regular cannabis or doing drugs at all. I was on synth noids for 6 months straight switched to cannabis with no issue then quit cannabis all together.

 

[weekend addiction]

I don't know why they are addictive and we don't either. In reality all we know about SC's is anecdotal experience reports and some guesses as to the actual chemistry for the drug. There are old psych meds which we still don't know how they work. Synthetic cannabinoids and RC's...we know even less about. So as to why they are so addictive I have no idea. My guess is that they are stronger than regular cannabinoids but who knows? The point is your friend has an addiction. And addictions are more psychological than physical in most cases. Your friend probably has untreated anxiety or depression and is self-medicating. If you can encourage him to deal with the root of the problem and don't act like your trying to fix his addiction then that's the best you can do. If you can help him get help for his underlying psych issues the drugs will often work themselves out of his life.

I never got clean from opiates until I admitted to myself that I had bipolar and did the best I could to get treatment. After that the opiate use stopped on its own. I wasn't using for fun I was self-medicating. And when the need to self-medicate left...shooting up every day turned into never touching a needle again (over 20 months now!). Good luck to your friend and don't push him too hard. Everybody has to go through the process of addiction\and or recovery differently and you can't force things for somebody.

 

[sekio]

I don't know why they are addictive and we don't either. In reality all we know about SC's is anecdotal experience reports and some guesses as to the actual chemistry for the drug. There are old psych meds which we still don't know how they work. Synthetic cannabinoids and RC's...we know even less about.

i wish people would stop repeating this. we know a good amount about synthetic cannabinoids these days.

synthetic cannabinoids are usually cb1/2 full agonists, whereas thc and its metabolites are only partial agonists. this means that the effects of syntheric cannabinoids are greatly exaggerated from marijuana - the normally mild dependence and inebriation are replaced with crack-cocaine-like addiction patterns (short duration, high potency, cb1 agonism causes dopamine release... recipe for disaster) and because of the much greater degree of receptor activation, the body takes more time to return to homeostasis.

people get "addicted" to cannabis, and exhibit classical dependence and withdrawal in cases of heavy, regular use (e.g. appetite loss, sleep loss, anxiety, dysphoria). usually heavy use is from boredom, habit, or self-medication.

the best option is to if at all possible, stabilise him on a cb1 partial agonist of some sort... one of the less potent cannabinoids, or hash oil tincture, or even just good old herb. do that for a week or two to adjust him to having a lower level of cb1 activation, then you can attempt to introduce lifestyle enrichment (e.g. get him playing chess and excercising) while withdrawing the cabnnabis or whatever slowly.

rapid "cold turkey" discontinuation of heavy synthetic cannabinoid use is unwise because it can cause seizures, nausea/vomiting, extreme paranoia/anxiety/dysphoria/panic attacks, etc. these are basically very exaggerated effects of cannabis discontinuation syndrome.

perhaps FAAH inhibitors would be of some use. tylenol has a metabolite that is one; but im not sure i would advise tylenol for cannabinoid detox...

 

[dingophone]

perhaps FAAH inhibitors would be of some use. tylenol has a metabolite that is one; but im not sure i would advise tylenol for cannabinoid detox...

Haha, yeah probably not the best idea. Now, the metabolite (AM-404), how safe is this one? I can't find anything conclusive about liver toxicity on it.

 

[Foreigner]

I didn't know that synthetic cannabinoids were so addictive. That really precludes their potential uses for me.

Yet again the natural, genuine article is better for you.

 

[sekio]

AM-404 is not stable enough to isolate and use as a drug, I think.
Since it metabolises into paracetamol... there's your answer on toxicity

There are some dibenzopyran (THC analogue) cannabinoids that are much... easier on the mind than the JWH and friends series. CP55940 is usually highly valued.

 

[Thief1996]

I always hear these stories because it was a big thing in my small town and caused a lot of ruckus! I used to do k2 and other ones VERY regularly for a year, like every night. The thing is it never affected me like it did some others? I didn't get addicted, not badly anyway, I did crave it though. I was fine on it, I could handle it fine it didn't make me stupid, I didn't do weird things, I could talk and do things mostly fine. All it did was make me relax, help me sleep and give me a break after a hard day. I never got any bad effects really, I've only ever thrown up on it once but that was my fault for scoffing a whole can of baked beans and then doing exercise I've even been on it at school and no one noticed. It did make me drowsy if I did it in the day time though but I didn't pass out. It made me kinda paranoid, but only when I was on it and only around my parents. I still did really well at school and got good results, I live in NZ and got my NCEA level 1 with merit endorsement while I was doing it every night. Anyway that's just my experience with it thought I'd share, when it got banned I was kinda disappointed but happy at the same time cos I'd have more money now, plus I know it's bad for my health. I haven't suffered any withdrawal since and I don't crave it. I would, however, do it again if I got the chance. It kinda became like a comforting familiar friend to me as weird as that sounds. I thought maybe k2 and the other synthetics only affected people really badly like your friend if they had preexisting mental problems, yet I myself suffer from depression and anxiety. Maybe it's the other way around? haha I don't know. But anyway that's my story

 

[Jesusgreen]

Honestly I think in short most of the addictive potential with synthetics comes from the short duration. Personally all of them last longer for me, but still it's a huge difference from weed - if I smoke weed I feel great for anywhere from 4-7 hours depending on the amount and strength, whereas if I smoke most synthetic cannabinoids or blends containing them the peak effects only last 40-60 minutes, with the entire effects wearing off in a couple of hours.

As a result of the short duration you're likely to smoke more often each day, but the thing is the tolerance builds up even quicker due to their increased potency over THC and other natural cannabinoids - so you quickly find yourself smoking more and more. Contrary to popular belief, even weed can be physically addictive, but it takes a lot of weed - whereas with cannabinoids you can very quickly escalate to the kind of amounts that cause such addiction in a matter of weeks.

It's all about willpower at the end of the day, I've found cannabinoids to actually detract less from my life than weed itself when I keep them to a single smoke a day, simply because of the shorter duration, and I also found when smoking them just once a day, the tolerance barely went up at all even after months and months of daily smoking. Maybe see if you can get your friend to cut down, it's the frequency of redoses/doses per day that are the biggest issue.

 

[ComfortablyNumb95]

Jesus si right. Synth noids last usually 20-30 minutes for me and hen i come down I'm perfectly baseline and willing to smoke again. They are really really really cheap aswell

 

[weekend addiction]

i wish people would stop repeating this. we know a good amount about synthetic cannabinoids these days.

Do we know how JWH will effect someone 40 years the road? What about the effects of combining it with other drugs for long periods?

 

[Toz]

I was doing this as well, eventually your friend will realize his addiction sucks, and quit. The withdrawal from synthetics are annoying but nothing compared to other drugs.

@RobotRipping, after stopping smoking synthetics, how long till your tolerance went back to normal so you could get high from weed again?

 

[Flow]

It's too bad he's on probation or else I'm sure he would have stuck with weed. I'm not one to pry into someone's business, but maybe I could help push him in the right direction at least. Hopefully he'll drop this nasty habit soon or at the very least cut back!

 

[Intenselife]

It depends on the kind of synthetic marijuana and the ingredients in them. I remember before i started smoking synthetic marijuana known as "spice" or "k2" where i used to live, they had recently banned a chemical called jwh-018 that was in a lot of the synthetic marijuana that they would sell at smoke shops and produced nasty side effects and withdrawals so it was banned.

I smoked synthetic cannibus or "spice" for almost a year with no negative side effects at all. Every few months they would have a stronger version, my smoke shop had a kind that was the most potent kind that i could find compared to the other several other smoke shops. It was just like weed, but a bit more uplifting and euphoric (to me atleast) and had a bit more of a body high to it. But other than that it was like the same, and as i said atleast the kinds that i've tried had no side effects even after doing them daily for almost a year.

They even sold them and those "bath salts" (which is a TERRIBLE drug) at many gas stations, and this was in phoenix, az which is a very large city (5th largest). Still shocks me how every smoke shop had spice/synthetic cannibus and many gas stations as well. It's nearly impossible to find them where i live now. Also "trails" a smokeshop that is very popular in many cities also had the "k2" stuff too, but i found stronger versions than k2. A few friends of mine who used to be potheads said the stuff was a lot more potent than many kinds of marijuana sold on the streets, and some would slightly black out a bit too.

 

[RobotRipping]

AM-404 is not stable enough to isolate and use as a drug, I think.
Since it metabolises into paracetamol... there's your answer on toxicity

There are some dibenzopyran (THC analogue) cannabinoids that are much... easier on the mind than the JWH and friends series. CP55940 is usually highly valued.

funny you mention that one, i had a gram of it a few years ago and it was pretty good, gave a really stony indica type high that was erotic and filled with munchies, it also lasted for several hours orally which was great for going to see a movie. Too bad it's not around anymore though, it was like the inverse of the JWH drugs.

 

[hatrix]

I really can't stress enough how bad synthetic cannabinoids are for you. When I was very active over at EK, there was a thread dedicated to pointing out the problems and issues people had while regularly smoking synthetic cannabinoids.

Seizures and sudden death were the main problem, other than ODs where you experience "the fear" (been there plenty of times).

They are dangerous. These full CB1/2 agonists are nothing to fuck with.

 

[Elisheba Ruth]

I just spent almost nineteen days in rehab getting off of 'spice'. I wanted to stay for the full twenty eight days, but I was indigent and destitute and the state would only pay for so much. I'd like to say that I wish I'd come to this forum and read up on it before I started using it, but if I'm honest, I was severely depressed and suicidal and was going to use something! But if I'd had the information you guys share here I might have stayed on the organic stuff and bypassed the synthetic nightmare! You can read about my experience if you would like at my blog as well as other bits and pieces that I've shared. I've included a snippet below as a teaser!

I was already experiencing withdrawals including nausea and anxiety. I would smoke a bowl to go to bed, smoke a bowl if I got up at night to use the restroom, and smoke a bowl when I got up before I even made coffee. By this time I had begun to keep a pipe in my car, smoking a bowl before I left my apartment, then another bowl before I left my car to go to work. I'd come out at lunch and smoke a couple of bowls at lunch. Before long I was taking "smoke breaks", coming out to my car once or twice in the morning and again in the afternoon. I was no longer functional at work and lost my job.

I had stopped taking my medications, psych medications for manic/depressive/bipolar disorder. I was having to self medicate the lows anyway I thought, so why bother with my prescription medications? Once I stopped using the prescription drugs use of spice took off. I had no thought of being an addict at this time. I simply thought I was doing what I needed to do to feel 'normal'.

Regarding those of you who may be or may have friends who are experiencing addiction or withdrawal symptoms, I will say that you should not take it lightly! Over the past year in Narcotics Anonymous and then rehab when people would ask what my drug of choice and I would tell them incense/spice/K2/synthetic weed the most common reaction was essentially "oh, only that?" Just because you don't have to go to a crack house down south of the tracks doesn't mean this stuff is a lightweight drug. I've known people over the past year in NA and rehab who have been on a variety of drugs. I ended in the same jails, the same psych wards, the same NA meetings, and the same rehab program as did crack heads, heroin addicts, and alcoholics.

I wanted to quit so bad I couldn't think of anything else but quitting (which is a sure symptom that you will find it difficult to quit!), but ended up with so many 'white tags' (NA gives out white tags to reestablish your clean date when you relapse) I quit picking them up. I had in the neighborhood of a dozen and could have had several dozen had I just kept picking them up every time I tried to quit but couldn't make it more than a day or so. I guess I could have made a nice concho belt, but the AA desire chips are really better for that

The 12 steps never helped me recover. Rehab didn't help me quit, although it did give me a safe environment to clean up and find the strength to recover. Filling the God shaped hole in my soul is what helped me recover (and healed me). I have no idea what might help you recover. I got clean for several months a couple of times but went back to the dope, so I don't think any of the chemical solutions would have worked. I had to fix the underlying problem using a language that I could understand. For me that was the words in red. For you or a friend maybe yoga or Zen Buddhism might work. All I know is that you should take this drug serious and consider it to be no less hazardous than any of the other highly addictive drugs that people end up ruining their lives on. I also know that some people are going to be more susceptible to addiction on a particular substance than others. I don't know why exactly. In rehab we were told lots of stuff about some people have an allergy to certain chemicals and can therefore become dependent on them where others do not become addicted or require incredibly more to become addicted. So you or a friend may become highly addicted to a substance such as spice where others use it and put it down easily.

I suspect a lot of this may be a repeat of things that have already been said on bluelight; if so I apologize. I'm just trying to share my story regarding spice in the hopes it will help someone else.

Peace,

Elisheba Ruth
[email protected]
http://elishebaruth.blogspot.com

"Any fool can make a rule, and any fool will mind it." - Henry David Thoreau

 

[psykoman]

I been smoKing blends for 5 Months now and can relate to what's been said here. Am in the jail that's why I use it cos it don't show up on drug tests. Out in 2 months and so l stop then. Am on home leave the now anyone wondering.

 

[f33lg00d]

Buying the pure chems online will save money at least, unless he just increases his dose.

 

[RomanticJunkie]

I smoked so much of this shit on probation in Oklahoma. K2 is more like crack than weed. The stuff made me so paranoid that I thought "they" knew everything about me, that people could hear my thoughts, and that the feds were keeping a close eye on me through street cameras and sattelites. Then maybe about 15 minutes after smoking, I would start to feel like complete shit and just fiend for another hit of the shit. The only similarity k2 has with bud, in my experience, is that it gives me the munchies like hell.