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Why is opioid addiction almost absent in countries with OTC opioids but rampant in the west?

4DQSAR said:
I have noted many US BLers who mention they use kratom and are concerned that the US government will eventually bring the product under legal control.

I don't kbow how potent kratom is but reports on 7-OH mitragynone are sketchy. Of the three routes I know of that oxidize mitragynine to 7-OHmitragynine, two use heavy metals, one uses an explosive hypervalent iodine compound, I note dubious labs that actually offer testing for heavy metals... so who knows if contamination with heavy metals is common and if so, how serious is it?

But it's not as if such laws appear overnight. You get a lot of warning so I would ASSUME that those products will become controlled at some point in the future and seek to detoxify now, not when you have to. Just like buprenorphine, if you simply park omeone on an opioid, it's only ever going to make detoxification harder. So if you are otherwise in good health and are otherwise in a good position, better to detox now rather than at some future time when you may have other problems to contend with.
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Knowing how dumb these shop sellers are with there products I'd be surprised if there wasn't word out on the streets already
(""Shrooms""are Also in vape shops and they literally post lab results showing mercury and other harmful elements for u to just see lol....idiots prolly why it didn't take off like crazy)

Some reputable sellers post lab results and the 7-oh( usually smoke shop ones) are either Underdosed Or overdosed but its in there with some plant matter too (forget the name) I don't know how they are synthesizing kratom maybe we will get that answer soon as I'm 75℅ it'll be banned due to this new extract.

But I agree with you its incredibly naive & dangerous to be taking Fake shrooms and lab made Kratom and I don't advise it but it wouldn't be a problem if the drug companies here had their shit together
 
OR simply classify krtaom as a herbal suppliment within the pervue of the DSHEA. After all, plain kratom appears far less hazardous that the dubious 7-OH mitragynine that IMO is clearly an illegal drug.

But you have the DEA so if you make something legal, they will get their rice bowl broken.
 
4DQSAR said:
OR simply classify krtaom as a herbal suppliment within the pervue of the DSHEA. After all, plain kratom appears far less hazardous that the dubious 7-OH mitragynine that IMO is clearly an illegal drug.

But you have the DEA so if you make something legal, they will get their rice bowl broken.
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"Well well well what do we have here "
- DEA
 
mirsNeedsHisItch said:
America doesn't have OTC opioids lol
the point was your country isnt dealing with what america is dealing with 😀
I literally said "I agree your country faces its troubles with addiction but it's certainly not much of a cultural issue as it is in 🇺🇸"
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Kratom, 7oh, pseudo and that is just the stuff that is easy to find. Pretty sure analog laws have opis pretty tightly sewn up usually --- are natazines legal?

I am still unconvinced that we are suffering more of a problem here if I read that link correctly Southeast Asia has the highest use rate?

Also listen to what 4qdsar said if it is in the gas stations it is certainly being targeted --- a taper or a large supply to do so may be smart if you are hooked. - The synth does sound sketchy but I do not like the "array of alkaloids" addiction potential/SSRI activity. "Clearly an illegal drug?"well I don't like the way that sounds -- if it is illegal why are we allowed to order it and purchase it openly? (Glad I didn't quite pull the trigger on ordering any powder yet, still feel pretty safe but I'll wait)
 
Thank you!
"Legal morphine" yup it'll be gone soon and boy is that a much better advertisement than any smoke shop would dare boast!

"Everything it encompasses" -- I actually do not know what you mean, I miss subtleties often. But I would be happy to listen?

Good to hear those are sched 1 as they should be --- well I guess they probably have medicinal value but no need.
 
It strikes me that from the perspective of the DEA, it makes much more sense to allow kratom and by extension syntheticlly produced 7-OH mitrasgynine to remain de facto uncontrolled UNTIL it becomes a major problem. That way they get a budget to tackle 'the new menace'.

But as I said, eseroline and then the next thing and then the next thiing...

IF the US simply made all naturally occuring compounds to be legalized and placed the DEA in the role of ensuring suppliers stick to the various legal controls, it means nobody gets their rice bowl broken. After all, I expect planty of DEA officiers have wealth of experience in the field so would be the obvious people to use.
 
I think most people use or experiment with substances when they're younger. Now if you feel like you need a drug someone telling you it's against the law is only going to make said drug more attractive. I've found that if opiates had been available, openly for me to use I wouldn't have had to do and get into all the shit that I have done.

Tell someone they can't have something and they'll want it all the more. If it's going to help them they'll do whatever it takes.

Society, due to their opinions of addicts and drug users in general have labelled and stigmatized us do much that it's easier for us to relate to the shit that goes with illegal drug use. We have each other's backs, that's how it should be.

Babygirl. X
 
mirsNeedsHisItch said:
Vicodin isn't OTC either
& I wouldn't say my country Is a total fuck up
1. We are number 1 in the global tech sector (Apple, Google, Meta, and Microsoft are good ol boys in blue we host them and they are central to global innovation. we outpace Europe in producing high-value startups and unicorns)
2. One in Military power (goes unsaid largest defense budget on planet earth, most aircraft carriers)
3. Education (American universities are among forefront of global education. Institutions such as Harvard, MIT, and Stanford consistently rank among the world's top universities. I know I know all Americans are dumb like meeee!!!)
4. Oxford Economics ranked NYC the best city in the world for 2025
5. We lead the world in Pharmaceutical development practically (insane FDA approvals with a insane number of new drug start ups)
6. We are number 1 for GDP nominal even though China leads with PPP
7. More Nobel prizes than any country, Most billionaires is, most olympics won
8. Culturally dominant (Music, film &social media trends being exported at an higher rate than any country)
9. Pushing Humanity (NASA & SpaceX leads commercial space travel as of june 1st 2025)
10. Capital (majority of Venture capital Investment orignates from the states)

Different countries deal with different problems due to culture etc.
( Canada as of recently is dealing with fentanyl but its different cuz the country is different )
The vast majority of western countries don't allow OTC opioids the ones that do I can recall Is like New Zealand , Ireland , Europe & I think 1 more.
The united states is THEE western country so my previous post I consider very relevant 👍
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Didn't say that your country was a fuckup, period (yay, look at me with my Americanisms), just that it's fucked up from big pharma overprescribing.

Your country is definitely a shining example of rampant capitalism... 😉
 
rentedbythehour said:
You forgot to mention all the settlements from the pharmacies that only filled the scripts written by Drs. They had to pay for their part in this as well. Money supposedly distributed to states to use for use to combat the epidemic.
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I didn't forget. I was leaving some meat on the bone for others to speak truths. Thank you.
 
Opioid crisis...SMH.

Mallinckrodt generic Oxycodone HCl 30mg cost $0.38 each out-of-pocket on second hand wholesale. Well that is what I call it.

With my insurance they cost $0.009 each. Yes less than a US penny for each one.

Not trying to brag. Just throwing that out there next time someone hears about paying $40-$50 each on the black market by diversion.

I do not sell mine because at the end of the month I cannot ingest cash to stay out of withdrawals, Not to mention, I hate creating loose ends. I have too much to lose.
 
4DQSAR said:
It strikes me that from the perspective of the DEA, it makes much more sense to allow kratom and by extension syntheticlly produced 7-OH mitrasgynine to remain de facto uncontrolled UNTIL it becomes a major problem. That way they get a budget to tackle 'the new menace'.

But as I said, eseroline and then the next thing and then the next thiing...

IF the US simply made all naturally occuring compounds to be legalized and placed the DEA in the role of ensuring suppliers stick to the various legal controls, it means nobody gets their rice bowl broken. After all, I expect planty of DEA officiers have wealth of experience in the field so would be the obvious people to use.
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ahh from a DEA budgetary perspective that absolutely makes sense --- I meant more broadly than kratom; global view I do not get how we are coming to the conclusion the US is in an opioid crisis. (Well the fentdope clearly but I think that is a different issue that may fall under the same umbrella?)

Wait wait wait lightbulb are you saying ppl in Southeast Asia are more likely to be using kratom or some plant form of drug whereas in the US we want maximum dosage maximum potency chemicals -- cuz that would make some sense to me?

Edit 4qsdar my legalization model was quite similar --- you can have all the plant material you want -- than some kind of quota on how much of each drug you could by a month. (I don't think most ppl would go through the shame of admitting they were over their quota and just go to plant material if they maxed -- which would effectively be the penalty, gotta get a friend to Smurf some for you *and you just admitted you have a problem*) Feels like it could be very clearcut and regulated but that is not the direction it feels like things are going and I'll stop before I get political.
 
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notsmokeymcpot42088 said:
Edit 4qsdar my legalization model was quite similar --- you can have all the plant material you want -- than some kind of quota on how much of each drug you could by a month. (I don't think most ppl would go through the shame of admitting they were over their quota and just go to plant material if they maxed -- which would effectively be the penalty, gotta get a friend to Smurf some for you *and you just admitted you have a problem*) Feels like it could be very clearcut and regulated but that is not the direction it feels like things are going and I'll stop before I get political.
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Yeah - there really would be a huge amount of work for DEA employees to check that licenced outlets were selling only to adults, weren't selling anything else and what was sold was of the appropriate purity.

I'm sure that organized criminals would seek to use outlets as bases to sell other drugs. So scope for them to keep on top with all of the various intelligence, stings, worldwide threats and all tthat palaver. They don't get their rice bowl broken and buyers can be confident that nobody is adding fentanyl to the opium (for example). Organized criminals would want to own such outlets so lots of scope for background checks as well. What they already have, they use - but this way, to actually try to solve the unwinnable war by simply whittling away the size of the marker.
 
Oh no not a huge amount of (Paper) work for DEA cowboys! I am losing sleep already -- they always want funding I want incentive as a taxpayer.

Feels like they almost have the outlets in place for marijuana for testing -- if not I'd rather see the GC/MC purity testing (?) business thrive for that rather than playing with ppl's piss (*Edit unless its voluntary always piss on the rim lol*). Heck could almost root for them and the DEA at that point. (ALOT of ppl moonshine around here and I would not touch that crap tbh). If I can't gather the change for a pint of popovs I prolly can't afford a drink.

The prices of everything would almost surely go down. We are in the wrong universe in the multiverse (If that is infact a thing I'm not sold nor do I understand the math) .
 
LucidSDreamr said:
Why is the west so fucked despite the restrictions?
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Imagine attacking heroin and enacting a war on drugs in impoverished communities only for that drug to be replaced with something 1,000,000 times worse in those same projects decades later (fentanyl)
The war on drugs was beneficiary in taking individuals drugs yes but there was a incentive to do it. Private owned prisons started popping up cause of the sheer amount of non-violent drug offenses. More prisonsers mean more government contracts meaning more profit. That profit went back in their own pockets when they federally funded law enforcement with financial incentives to incarcerate more people. They rinsed & repeated until opiates came around in the 90's marketed as non-addictive. By 2010 they cracked down on it and many turned to heroin which turnt to synthetic opiates cause of money issues. Opioid addiction is rampant in the west but not other countries even with OTC opiods because things like the War on Drugs criminalized addiction and the healthcare system stayed profit driven not prevention focused like other countries systems, than once they cracked down on opiates and users begin using heroin (A drug already in decline from a tried replacement)
Thats when fentanyl hit the market and if that's the only thing that cures your dope sickness your probably gonna use it. Than since there's no heroin and genuine opiates anymore cartels will press fent to recreate the same experience sadly
(also the OTCs in other countries aren't on the level of the prescription quality the rest offers so its not like they are selling Pharmaceutical A grade Codiene at 60mg maybe like 8mg and you'll risk stomach ulcers making that your habit)
 
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