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Tryptamines Why is dmt considered the strongest psychedelic?

Mike Lamson said:
I have done it and have experienced some profound trips but I still would argue lsd is a lot more potent then dmt. 1mg of dmt is a very light mild trip, where as 1mg of lsd would have you travelling the Silk Road in its prime and for a lot longer then dmt would. Is dmt maybe considered the strongest because of its higher possibility of transformative experiences through its use? Or just the profoundness of a higher dose experience?
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Oh I fully agree on that LSD is much more potent than DMT. Even as a profoundness or introspectiveness LSD trumps DMT for me. DMT is generally so nonsensical and completely obliterates my sense of self instantly so there is no room for self-reflection at all. The experience just ”is” and then Im back. DMT was also probably the most ”abusable” psychedelic for me, the first time I bought it I was smoking it 7 - 8 times per day for a week straight.

LSD has taken me deeper than DMT ever has
 
TheLightBringer said:
I have seen melatonin vapes marketed in the past, no clue if theyre underdosed or not but it seems quite pleasant altough Im unsure of its effectiveness
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Yeah I've seen them too. Also some links suggesting they contain other ingredients that aren't so good for you.

I do kind of like the idea of a melatonin vaporiser you could just root yours off to sleep with.

I thought OP was actually talking about smoking the stuff though.
 
Actually, since the 5-MeO DMT I made used melatonin as the key precursor, I licked my finger, dipped it in the unused metatonin and swallowed it. I was quite surprised but it really did send me to sleep. Only for an hour or two and I was sleep deprived, but I felt it.

So a silly thing to do but in my case it may have been the case thay my body had depleted the melotonin or possibly the serotonin. So please don't do what I did.
 
jveiojajoivioedsac said:
What is frame stacking?
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when your body and visual and auditory and thought moments fade more slowly and stack up ontop of eachother leading to physical heaviness, visual confusion, echoes, and thoughts out of sequence all at the same time.
normally the frames fade within 1/3 of a second, but they persist
sometimes persisting up to 3 seconds before fading, up to 30 frames can stack on top of each other then blackout or whiteout - dose dependent as to how deep the stack gets.

it feels like trails -> vibes and sensations layering up and seemingly into another dimension -> strange yet vaguely familiar -> then just strange and not familiar
 
4DQSAR said:
Actually, since the 5-MeO DMT I made used melatonin as the key precursor, I licked my finger, dipped it in the unused metatonin and swallowed it. I was quite surprised but it really did send me to sleep. Only for an hour or two and I was sleep deprived, but I felt it.
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Why start from melatonin when mexamine is available?

Also I wonder if Mexamine + an MAOI would be active as a psychedelic in humans since it has psychedelic effects in animals 🤔

Edit: Please be careful and dont try this, I am unsure of the safety profile of 5-MeO-Tryptamine and the binding profile and pharmacokinetics tell me it might have peripheral side effects 😬
 
Because It can produce effects seen In datura despite being a serotonergic drug which could be from It being a SRI + 5HT2A agonist. It also not something to try If you wanna feel what ADHD rejection dysphoria feels like since much of the beings seen at high doses can be legit cunt's for no real reason but It not always the case.
 
bigjackaal96 said:
Because It can produce effects seen In datura despite being a serotonergic drug which could be from It being a SRI + 5HT2A agonist. It also not something to try If you wanna feel what ADHD rejection dysphoria feels like since much of the beings seen at high doses can be legit cunt's for no real reason but It not always the case.
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What does ”effects seen in datura” mean? All psychedelics can produce psychotic effects and ”true” hallucinations like deliriants or stimulant psychosis can in high enough doses or during the right conditions. Yes DMT being an SRI and a potent Serotonin releasing agent might have something to do with it as more excitatory signals and monoamine release will increase the risk for psychotic states.

Im guessing some of the associated risk and incidence of psychosis with DMT has to do with it often being combined with an MAOI in ayahuasca.
 
Rogan and Terrance. All tryptamines are about equally intense (maximum level possible basically) when smoked, kappa agonists can do it too.
 
Bufotenine is another intense one but it made me feel like I was dying. No fun, plus it makes you spew like a fire hydrant.
 
GooberDoober said:
Rogan and Terrance. All tryptamines are about equally intense (maximum level possible basically) when smoked, kappa agonists can do it too.
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Yes I feel like Joe rogan and terrence have hyped up DMT so much that people think youll smoke it and your whole life will change instantly you will be rid of all your character defects and become 10x smarter and have become enlightened 😅
 
It depends on what people mean by “strongest,” so it’s important to define some terms first.

Potency refers to the amount of a drug needed to produce a given effect. Although it sounds like a generic term, it has a precise pharmacological meaning. Potency is typically expressed as EC50, the concentration of a drug required to activate 50% of its receptors, usually measured in vitro in a cell culture or receptor assay. The lower the EC50, the higher the potency.

For example, approximate EC50 values at the 5HT2a receptor:

LigandEC50 (nM)EC50 (ug/L)
Serotonin305~
DMT509~
LSD1.50.5~

Affinity describes how tightly a molecule binds to a receptor, typically expressed as Ki. It measures how well a ligand can compete with other molecules (usually the natural ligand) for binding. High affinity does not necessarily mean strong activation. The affinities for serotonin, DMT and LSD are 30nM, 127nM and 2-3nM respectively.

Efficacy (or intrinsic activity) measures how strongly a ligand activates a receptor once bound. A full agonist has high efficacy, while a partial agonist has lower efficacy. This is usually expressed as a unitless ratio relative to the natural ligand.

So, LSD binds extremely tightly to 5-HT2A but only partially activates it compared to serotonin. DMT binds less tightly then serotonin but is almost a full agonist.

When people talk about the “strongest” psychedelic, they usually mean what feels strongest, which is subjective. By this measure, DMT and 5-MeO-DMT are often considered the most intense experiences. This isn’t because they bind particularly tightly to 5-HT2A, but because they act at multiple receptors, including 5-HT1A. There are "psychedelics" with virtually no interactions with 2a such as 5-MeO-pyr-T which is all 1a and is reportedly very very intense.

If you ask a pharmacologist about the strongest 5-HT2A agonists, compounds like the NBOMe series are notable. Many of them have very high affinity and are often "super agonists" meaning they have a higher efficacy then even serotonin.

Of course, this is a massive oversimplification. Many other factors influence a drug’s effects, including how it’s processed by the body (pharmacokinetics), exactly where it binds on the receptor, which signaling pathways it activates, and numerous other variables.

People aren't wrong when they call DMT the strongest, because subjectively it is.
 
Well, as I seem to be the one who says it...

affinity ≠ efficacy

A ligand can be anywhere on the spectrum from antagonist to superagonist and I've noted that different sources will describe the same ligand in a different way.
 
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GooberDoober said:
Bufotenine is another intense one but it made me feel like I was dying. No fun, plus it makes you spew like a fire hydrant.
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Good to know, been meaning to give that a shot. For years it had been written off as uninteresting in the literature. Yet these days we have aficionados. Not sure what to think.
 
4DQSAR said:
Actually, since the 5-MeO DMT I made used melatonin as the key precursor, I licked my finger, dipped it in the unused metatonin and swallowed it. I was quite surprised but it really did send me to sleep. Only for an hour or two and I was sleep deprived, but I felt it.

So a silly thing to do but in my case it may have been the case thay my body had depleted the melotonin or possibly the serotonin. So please don't do what I did.
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Question -- I thought there was a fairly low ceiling dose of melatonin. Under 2mg if I recall -- making most the pills in the US way overdosed (unless you break em down to .5 or w/e -- under 1mg if I recall correctly?)

Why about DMT -- IDK I have yet to experience true DMT so I can only throw the theory out (Based on transative property) that we are talking about the "Strongest trip per dose" not "Most potent" -- if that makes sense, I'll use an example

Fentanyl takes well under 1 mg for effects --- Morphine takes 15-30 mg IV for effects (and that's Alot smaller dose than 1mg fentanyl) but morphine has a more euphoric and longer lasting high.

I consider morphine stronger -- not more potent but stronger.

Now DMT doesn't have a long duration but to me a long duration is the major con of most psychedelics. I just don't have time to trip for 8 hours --- right now the strongest psychedelic I have done was smoked 25i-nbome freebase. Very euphoric -- super intense -- over in an hour. (Sounds a bit like DMT)

Wait while we are doing the semantic thing is DMT a psychedelic? I thought it was More a dissassociative.

Sorry if some of this was addressed already
 
@notsmokeymcpot42088 - I also believed there was a ceiling effect but I can only tell you what I did and what the outcome was.

It's not a good idea but I really was so very tired but simply couldn't sleep so I wasn't making rational decisions. Just because I was fine doesn't mean it's safe or a good idea. In my defence, as always I had checked the instrumental data first. So at least I knew it WAS melatonin.
 
notsmokeymcpot42088 said:
Question -- I thought there was a fairly low ceiling dose of melatonin. Under 2mg if I recall -- making most the pills in the US way overdosed (unless you break em down to .5 or w/e -- under 1mg if I recall correctly?)
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When 3 mg dosed Melatonin was prescription only. Sold under the counter.
9 mg would have us wobbly after coming down MDMA. He asked refill s many time Used Amphetamine chronically att. Must have worked.

Bought in a regular supplement store just not sold openly. The supplements i buy never get tested Maybe there is cheap made and premium grade.
It consequently got me wobbly after a good 45 minute.

Instead of enduring insomnia otherwise only potent GABA drugs circumvent.
So when not on stimulant s the recommended dose the 1 tablet/ 3 mg seemed reasonable. Been talk about it disturbing natural sleep induction.

Never followed the discussion so maybe some one can add on it.
A one time 9 mg dose never hurt me afaik. Till today. The Melatonin old today 3 mg.
Doesn t even touch insomnia. In the past it seem to work best for onset of sleep.
 
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Dang they sell like 100's of 4mg melatonin's at Walmart.

I never attempted to take more than 1mg --- because I was foolish and trusted the science. (I guess) lol --- I will have to try a couple of those 4's.

No noticeable negative affect from that kind of dosage one time? I dont plan to fry that receptor every night -- just sounds common sense bad idea....but you got me intrigued with the fingertip than moreso with Emkee's story
 
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