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Why I bought my daughter heroin - UK, BBC NEWS

F'Loki

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Joined
Feb 7, 2017
Messages
131
[h=1]http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-39212295

Why I bought my daughter heroin[/h][h=1]
What would you do if your child was a heroin addict suffering from acute withdrawal symptoms - disintegrating in front of your eyes - while waiting for rehab treatment to start? One mother from a village in the south-west of England describes how she ended up driving her daughter to town, and paying for her to get a fix.

She was pouring with sweat, vomiting, crying, hysterical, shaking - just desperate, feeling desperately ill. I felt like I was trapped in a corner and that there was nothing else I could do. So I said to her, "Is there any way we can do this - on the street?"
She spent a good hour and a half ringing around, and people could only offer her heroin, not methadone.
That's how we ended up in the middle of a local town with me handing over my hard-earned money to buy a drug.
The problem really started five years ago, when she was 18. She had some life changes in terms of friends going off to university and changes in a long-term relationship that she had been happy in, and then it had gone wrong. Her behaviour, her personality, started to change.
Before she had been hard-working, she had loved her horse and would ride, and all these things started to fall by the wayside. She slept a lot in the day. I kept saying to her, "What's wrong with you?"
And then she started hanging around with people that we knew were not a good influence - older people who were using drugs. And it started to sort of click into place.

[/h][h=2]Find out more[/h][h=1]Listen to the daughter speaking to BBC Radio 4's iPM programme on the BBC iPlayer.
You can also hear the mother's account in audio here.

We were driving back from somewhere one day and I asked her again what was wrong with her.
And she said, "Imagine the worst thing it could be."
I said, "Are you pregnant?" - which, when I think about it now would have been nothing. It would have been fantastic in a way if that had been the answer, because the answer was: "No, no mum. Think of the worst. Worse, much worse than that. Think of the worst thing."
I said, "Are you a drug addict?" And she said, "Yes."
Then she broke down, and it was heartbreaking. It was the worst day of my life.
_95057763_hate.jpg
We talked about how to stop it there and then - how to bring it to a stop as soon as possible. We talked about it as a family, and there was a bit of shouting. You had different emotions - one minute you are shouting and angry, the next minute you are upset.
My husband's brother had been a drug user and had died through depression, when he was trying to come off them. I think my husband thought it was a waste, that his brother could have been a really valuable part of our family life and our society. And I think he felt the same way about our daughter - that she had so much to offer, and he didn't want her to make the wrong choices.
Our daughter at that point didn't feel it was a problem. She kept saying, "It's just fun, OK? It's just fun." And that would be interspersed with periods of depression and it not being fun, but her not being prepared to admit that. And as time went on we gave her an ultimatum. Looking back I don't know whether it was the right decision or not, but we said, "If you continue to use drugs, you can no longer live at home." And we kicked her out, because she continued.
Then her drug use got worse, and her friendship groups deteriorated more and more.
I hated her. I hated her so much.
I felt that she had all the power to stop it - and she didn't. Nothing your children can do will stop you loving them, but the hatred was enormous. I was just desperately angry. I wanted to pick her up literally by her shoulders and shake her like a doll and say, "For goodness sake! Look at what you are doing!"
I had always been a very controlling mum when they were younger. They had set bedtimes and they ate their vegetables and all that. And I felt very out of control. I couldn't say, "No you're not going out. You need to come home and stay home and sort yourself out." Because she would say, "I'm an adult, I can do what I like."
I was disappointed. Very disappointed, because I had great expectations of what she could achieve. She wasn't managing to achieve anything at that point, although things did change briefly when she started to realise she wasn't happy.
She applied to the army, to the military police, and she did her basic training really well and got a good job in the military police. We thought she had kicked her drug habit and turned her life around, and we were just immensely proud. I remember thinking, "Oh my goodness, she's done it. Not only has she done it, she's done it big time - she's got a really good job." We didn't know there was still a problem.
_95057759_badge.jpg
She was earning good money but after about a year, at the end of every month, we started getting phone calls. She kept saying, "I don't know where I spend all my money mum, it just goes. At the end of every month I'm left with nothing and I've got no money for food and stuff."
So we would forward her a sub for the next month. We weren't actually giving her money, we were subbing her until her next pay packet.
All the way through she had a problem, which she was hiding because she was ashamed, I think.
She would come back and associate with the same people, so we would see her very little at weekends, and then she would go back to base on the Monday.
But I think it started to impact on her ability to work. She was getting exhausted, you could tell. She was tiring of partying all weekend and then holding down a full-time job in the week. When you haven't slept from Thursday night until you go back to bed on Monday evening after work, you're very exhausted, and it started to catch up with her. I think her colleagues and her boss started to see there were changes, because we started getting phone calls from the army.
_95057760_crash.jpg
One day she drove back on the Monday, having not slept for days, and smashed her car into the central reservation on the motorway. My husband and I realised that if we didn't stop her, she would kill herself, or someone else. And when the army rang me in the week I said, "You should know, I think my daughter takes drugs at weekends, and she needs to be drug-tested." So that's how she lost her job.
I am sure she resents me for doing that, but I feel that I saved her life, or someone else's, because it was only a matter of time before she didn't smash into the central reservation, but smashed into someone else. That would have been on my conscience forever.
After that, she just sofa-surfed really. She would go from sofa to sofa, drug place to drug place. She had lost her driving licence for drug-driving so she went from being independent, having a car, having a career, to having nothing essentially. At one point one of the houses that she was staying in burned to the ground - luckily, when she was not in it - so she lost all her possessions as well, literally everything she owned.
Each time we saw her, a lot would depend on her state of mind, and on where we were in terms of our ability to accept her for what she was and what she was doing, and love her regardless. But at a certain point we argued, and she said she didn't want contact any more. So we didn't speak for three months.
Then finally she rang and said it was not helping. I think she thought not having contact would help her feel better, mentally, because we were a constant reminder that her life was going down the pan - no-one else was saying that to her, but obviously we were.
_95057796_dinner.jpg
So we got back in contact and we had a Christmas meal, which stands out in my memory because she had obviously been using drugs through the night and could no longer stay awake. She fell asleep with her face in the Christmas dinner - just asleep in the plate. It was an indicator of how bad things had become.
Initially my daughter would say taking drugs was fun, just really good fun. After about five years of quite heavy use, she would say it numbs emotion and numbs you to real life, so you don't have to worry, and you don't have to think or care. So at this stage she didn't get an awful lot of enjoyment out of it, if any. I don't think she trusted many people, including me, because you become suspicious of everything and everyone.
Nobody can help. Nobody knows what to say. Everyone's desperate for it to be good news. They say, "How are things getting on?" And if it's good news, they're like, "Oh brilliant, brilliant!" But nobody really wants to hear that it's still the same, or worse. And there is very little professional support unless you're prepared to pay for it.
At times we saw counsellors privately. We had lots of conversations with her about planning for the future - "If you do this and this, then maybe you can move on from drugs…" We even got to the point where we locked her in her bedroom. My husband boarded the windows and locked the door, but it wasn't successful because the person has to want to do it themselves, and she didn't. In the end, one of her companions, who she would be using drugs with I believe, came to the house, threatened my husband and barged in to let her out.
Eventually our daughter got caught stealing from her employer to fund her addiction.
She had also stolen a cheque from the back of my chequebook, written out a cheque for just over £1,000 and cashed it. And we pressed charges.
We had tried everything else that we could. We have a very strong moral compass, and we have two younger children looking at our behaviour and looking at our decisions, and we wanted them to see that you don't steal from your family, and that's the end of it.
We personally took our daughter to court and sat with her and supported her and said, "We are here for you, but you are not going to do this - you are not allowed to steal from us."
And the court issued a drug rehabilitation requirement, which means she has to be tested twice weekly, commence a methadone programme, and receive counselling in group sessions at a specific place for people with addiction problems. She also has a tag for three months, which means she has to be in our house between the hours of 7pm and 7am - which we thought was the best scenario, because we didn't want her to go to prison. We just wanted her to get help, and we just didn't seem to get help from anywhere else or in any other way. So we thought this was the best possible outcome.
We walked out of the court at about 2.30pm or 3pm, and I said to the solicitor, "When does this start?"
And he said, "Now."
And I said, "So we have to go home to the family?"
He said, "Yes, because the people who do the tags can turn up any time from seven o'clock onwards."
And I said, "Well, what about our daughter's drug use? You know, she can't just suddenly stop here, now. What's going to happen? She's going to immediately fail. She's going to run because the desperation to get drugs is so huge that we won't be able to keep her home."
And he said, "Well go to the GP."
So we went to the GP and the GP said, "We no longer prescribe methadone, you need to go to Turning Point."
And they said: "Oh sorry, we're not an emergency service, you'll have to contact the GP."
And I said, "We've been to the GP and the GP said we have to come to you."
And they said, "Well, we can't do anything today. She won't actually die from this withdrawal."
And I was shocked at how nobody was taking responsibility and the whole burden was placed on us, as the parents. "It's your problem, now she's tagged to your house she has to be there." You cannot live with someone who's withdrawing from a £100 a day habit, who's going to be kicking off and screaming and crying and vomiting and probably smashing stuff in a few hours, because she's so frustrated and panic-stricken. But nobody wants to know. A&E don't provide methadone. You're absolutely stuck.
I didn't personally buy the heroin. I just drove my car to the area and she went off, injected herself, and came back, but somehow it felt like we had taken a step into a different place - like I was a different person. I had done something that I never in my entire life have done, and never thought I would do.
But my husband felt utterly betrayed. It was something he felt very, very strongly about. He was very upset. He felt I'd betrayed him by going out and buying drugs off the street because one of the things we'd agreed years ago, right at the beginning when our daughter admitted a drug problem, was that we would provide all the support we could whenever we could, but we would never buy her drugs. We would never give her money or presents, knowing that she would sell them to purchase drugs.
_95057799_tag.jpg
When I got home and told my husband what I had done, he was so distraught... for days. I had not realised at the time, but he emailed the BBC: "Our heroin addict daughter was given a drug rehabilitation requirement, a 7-7 curfew with tag as long as she moved back to our family home. Still unable to get methadone prescribed. My wife has taken her to try to buy some off the street (it's midnight now)."
I promised him I would never do that again. And he made it very clear that if I did I may be dealing with this on my own, because he couldn't stand the betrayal - my having gone against his wishes.
He has a very black-and-white attitude to life, as I think a lot of men do. And if there is something I've learned from this situation over the past eight years, it's that there is no black and white. There's a massive area of grey in between. We've had long conversations about it since. I wouldn't do that now. I think I would go to A&E and insist she was given some sort of strong sedation.
She is now on a prescribed methadone programme, which means she has a set amount of methadone that she collects once a day in the morning from the chemist, swallows it in front of the chemist, then comes home. She doesn't have any of the withdrawal symptoms, and she doesn't have the high. It doesn't make you feel good, it just stops the sickness, and she is functioning during the day. She's helping clean the house and cook the tea. And slowly she will take less and less each day, with the aim of being off methadone altogether in six months.
_95057802_methadone.jpg
Before we went to court she had said to me, "I've just had enough. This is awful." She had a couple of suicide attempts, one very serious one that resulted in liver damage. But you have to really show willing to be put on a methadone programme. You don't just go in the door and say, "I've had enough of being a heroin addict, I want to go on methadone." You have to go for about two weeks' worth of meetings at least, and you have to be attempting to come off heroin yourself before they even start you on a methadone programme. It's a real Catch 22 situation, because she wanted to come off it by that point. She was hating her life. She was obviously extremely depressed, because she was trying to take her own life. She was becoming very thin and she'd stolen off her sister, who was, or is, her best friend. There were no positives in life.
By ordering a methadone programme to proceed, the court forced the hand of the local drug help centre. They then had to start her on the programme sooner rather than later.
We are taking one day at a time. It has taken five years to get to this point, so it's not all going to turn around and change within five minutes. Our daughter now has her own accommodation, which is part of our house, but we have sort of made it so that she has her own access and we have to knock to get into her bit of the house. So this is her own home now. She has got her dog back, which the dog is chuffed about, and she is too. So it's small steps like that, remembering that you are loved, remembering that there are people back at home who are still there waiting and wanting you to recover.
I know it's boastful, but she's absolutely beautiful looking and very intelligent. I think she could have been anything. She is so massively into animals that she used to talk about being a vet, so years ago I guess we used to dream about that. And it's so far away from the reality of what her adult life became. Now the dream is very different. It's just, "I want her to be drug-free and happy."
I feel 50% responsible because I think all mothers do. Some days I think I've done everything for the right reasons, even though she may see it like that, and I'm proud that I am still here and sane and standing. But then on another day I get up and I think this is all my fault. Perhaps if I hadn't kicked her out in those early few months when she refused to stop using drugs… It's hard to know.
Currently I trust her totally not to steal. I leave my handbag lying around. I don't worry about it. I don't entirely trust her not to contact the wrong people, because it's a slow process. Initially, in the first days she was back, I'm sure she didn't trust me. I'm sure she knew that I was going in her room, just having a look around and checking there wasn't any drug paraphernalia - because that's what you start doing, as a parent you start searching out the equipment and the stuff that they're using. But I've stopped doing that now, and she has had clean tests for nine weeks, so I suppose the trust must be building.
Illustrations by Emma Russell
[/h]
 
It's crazy how hard it is to get on methadone over there. In the US all you need is money and opiates in your pee. Took me 3 hours tops to get my first 25mg dose
 
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"Disintergrating in front of your eyes"? It's freakin heroin WD, get over it...you feel like shit for a week or so and then the acute WD is over. It must really suck to have to depend on your folks to supply your dope habit

And there are a lot worse things than being a drug addict...try having a serious neurological disorder, or cancer, or pretty much any incurable chronic illness.
 
"Disintergrating in front of your eyes"? It's freakin heroin WD, get over it...you feel like shit for a week or so and then the acute WD is over. It must really suck to have to depend on your folks to supply your dope habit

And there are a lot worse things than being a drug addict...try having a serious neurological disorder, or cancer, or pretty much any incurable chronic illness.

I feel where the parents are coming from though. They have no training in this and dealing with someone you have an emotional connection with who is obviously suffering sucks.
 
Wow serious lack of compassion. I wonder where that came from?

Hope you are well

F'loki
 
Wow serious lack of compassion. I wonder where that came from?

Hope you are well

F'loki

Lack of compassion? Or the truth hurts?

This, almost without doubt middle-class white woman, got her horse riding 'beautiful' 'very intelligent' daughter's story not only into a national newspaper, reprinted online, but also on a national radio station too.

Attention out of all proportion to the story while others go ignored. I can see where Burnt Offerings is coming from.

There are 250000 heroin addicts in the U.K. Unfortunately not all of them are beautiful, ride horses, or get jobs in the Military Police.
 
I found this a good read, but really cringed most especially at the bit where she came back and her husband was so distraught he emailed the BBC. Anonymous submittion aye? wonder if it even happened.

"Quick, we've got an emergency, somebody email the BBC"
 
Totally get what you are saying. But just I have learnt not to judge people's suffering by how much money they have, social status etc. Suffering is suffering. I do not personally judge (or try not to at least) or try to quantify people's suffering.

I see people in outpatient rehab from all backgrounds and they all have their reasons for using. I think just because you are a white rich or middle-class girl we can't judge, because we don't know the person's back story, mental health etc. etc. A billion things could've caused it: Rape, child abuse, mental illness, intense bullying. If you think you are more worthy of being an addict (whatever that means) because you had a harder upbringing and come from a lower social status then that is your judgement and your bruised ego to be honest. Truth hurts? Maybe it does. ;)

I also find it hypocritical to say that people who are wealthier don't have a right to suffer, because that is essentially saying that money solves all our problems and wealth = infinite happiness. Funny especially when this comes from supposed self-described "left-wing" types who at the same time preach that money doesn't bring us happiness and we should all be more equal. I hear this so much it drives me crazy.

Anyway, not gonna get into this. Make of the story what you will. I just think it outrageous how GP's pass the buck with just getting methadone and people are forced to do this. I hear it all the time in outpatient peer sessions from people of all backgrounds. I've learnt not to judge. A lack of access to methadone and unwillingness to prescribe it and things like diazepam for alcoholics/benzo addicts - where the withdrawals can actually kill you easily - is at best immoral and unethical, and at worst a human rights abuse IMO.
 
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I am not, or never have been, an addict.

I never said wealthier people don't have a right to suffer. It just pisses me off how they seem to have a right to get their story into national newpapers or national radio. Or, in this case, both.

I largely agree with your last sentence, especially regarding benzos. But if only a lack of access to methadone ( a much harder drug to withdraw from than heroin) was replaced with an easier access to clean heroin, clean equipment, and a proper, educated access to injection sites - maybe we'd be even closer on agreement.

"Scream it from the rooftops" - Alexander Trocchi
 
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So we got back in contact and we had a Christmas meal, which stands out in my memory because she had obviously been using drugs through the night and could no longer stay awake. She fell asleep with her face in the Christmas dinner - just asleep in the plate.

this woman clearly has never been exposed to heroin or the people who use it.
it would be so nice if newpapers printed informed perspectives rather than highly emotive, sensationalist ones like this.
 
Oh on the contrary I agree with you completely: I would rather see pure clean heroin on GP prescription than methadone. Despite my drug problems I am still vehemently pro-legalisation of all drugs because it's the only practical solution on all ethical, social, human rights and economic levels of society IMO.

Regards,

F'loki
 
I found the story moving, in spite of the "affluence" of this family. Anyone can be a drug addict- anyone. Can anyone then really judge another? What would you do differently if you got to ride horses as a child?

Side note, I rode horses as a child. Anyone can ride a fucking horse.

Lack of compassion? Or the truth hurts?

This, almost without doubt middle-class white woman, got her horse riding 'beautiful' 'very intelligent' daughter's story not only into a national newspaper, reprinted online, but also on a national radio station too.

No, that was lack of compassion. Half of my family are wealthy*. Does that mean my suffering is less? That seems to be what is being implied. That's bullshit IMO.

*Half are dirt poor. I hope they get the suffering they are entitled to :\ 8)

There are 250000 heroin addicts in the U.K. Unfortunately not all of them are beautiful, ride horses, or get jobs in the Military Police.

What's your point though? None of these superficial things (which are not indicators of great wealth by any means) alleviate opiate withdrawal, or mental anguish leading to addiction. I'm sure that none of these things are significant in terms of the capacity to suffer, which we all have. That's why I say society is, at heart, a fair place because we all experience agony when set on fire. We are all victims in this ongoing, pointless nightmare with no releif, no escape, no destination and no reward at the end. Any attempt to relieve suffering is acceptable to me. Even horse riding or employment.

The pain of being human is the great leveller that unites us all. I think all of us, rich or poor or even just annoying, deserve compassion. After all, wealthy children don't get to select their parents anymore than less weathy children.

Let's not divide human suffering according to class.

The article was sensationalised but it resonated with me. Such sad lives sprawled across the skin of our gloomy world.

I dislike the naive tough love bullshit though. Tough love isn't really love IMO.
 
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the way I see it, they are not critisizing the girl nor her family but the tendency of people to have more compassion with addicts who come from middle class or wealthy backgrounds as opposed to poor junkies who probably "had it coming".

would the Media be interested in this story if the girl came from a poor low class background and write heartbreaking stories about it? I doubt it.
 
would the Media be interested in this story if the girl came from a poor low class background and write heartbreaking stories about it? I doubt it.

none of the people "who matter" would care, because drug addiction is something that the middle class expect from those beneath them in the social hierarchy. stories like this are necessary because they help to drive home the hard truth, which is that the cozy middle-class people exposed in such articles are precisely the type that have traditionally voted for the hard-on-drugs legislators that made it impossible for their children to get relief because the doctors who could provide it have been made to fear for their practice should they dare do so.
 
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I found the story moving, in spite of the "affluence" of this family. Anyone can be a drug addict- anyone. Can anyone then really judge another? What would you do differently if you got to ride horses as a child?

Side note, I rode horses as a child. Anyone can ride a fucking horse.



No, that was lack of compassion. Half of my family are wealthy*. Does that mean my suffering is less? That seems to be what is being implied. That's bullshit IMO.

*Half are dirt poor. I hope they get the suffering they are entitled to :\ 8)



What's your point though? None of these superficial things (which are not indicators of great wealth by any means) alleviate opiate withdrawal, or mental anguish leading to addiction. I'm sure that none of these things are significant in terms of the capacity to suffer, which we all have. That's why I say society is, at heart, a fair place because we all experience agony when set on fire. We are all victims in this ongoing, pointless nightmare with no releif, no escape, no destination and no reward at the end. Any attempt to relieve suffering is acceptable to me. Even horse riding or employment.

The pain of being human is the great leveller that unites us all. I think all of us, rich or poor or even just annoying, deserve compassion. After all, wealthy children don't get to select their parents anymore than less weathy children.

Let's not divide human suffering according to class.

The article was sensationalised but it resonated with me. Such sad lives sprawled across the skin of our gloomy world.

I dislike the naive tough love bullshit though. Tough love isn't really love IMO.

Thanks so much for sharing this. It's refreshing to see someone who gets it and who isn't ignorant and judgmental because they have a chip on their shoulder. I was considering just deleting the whole story tbh due to all the negative and downright hostile replies and not ever post again outside "the dark side" forums. Glad I didn't now.

Love and hugs

F'loki
 
this woman clearly has never been exposed to heroin or the people who use it.
it would be so nice if newpapers printed informed perspectives rather than highly emotive, sensationalist ones like this.


You've never nodded off at the dinner table? Granted I've never actually face planted down into a plate of food, but I can see how it could happen, especially if there were some benzos in the mix.
 
Nah, what i meant is thay she obviously nodded - and not that she'd been up all night and was tired and "could no longer stay awake"
 
Oh on the contrary I agree with you completely: I would rather see pure clean heroin on GP prescription than methadone. Despite my drug problems I am still vehemently pro-legalisation of all drugs because it's the only practical solution on all ethical, social, human rights and economic levels of society IMO.

Regards,

F'loki

I'm glad we agree.

I found the story moving, in spite of the "affluence" of this family. Anyone can be a drug addict- anyone. Can anyone then really judge another? What would you do differently if you got to ride horses as a child?

Side note, I rode horses as a child. Anyone can ride a fucking horse.



No, that was lack of compassion. Half of my family are wealthy*. Does that mean my suffering is less? That seems to be what is being implied. That's bullshit IMO.

*Half are dirt poor. I hope they get the suffering they are entitled to :\ 8)



What's your point though? None of these superficial things (which are not indicators of great wealth by any means) alleviate opiate withdrawal, or mental anguish leading to addiction. I'm sure that none of these things are significant in terms of the capacity to suffer, which we all have. That's why I say society is, at heart, a fair place because we all experience agony when set on fire. We are all victims in this ongoing, pointless nightmare with no releif, no escape, no destination and no reward at the end. Any attempt to relieve suffering is acceptable to me. Even horse riding or employment.

The pain of being human is the great leveller that unites us all. I think all of us, rich or poor or even just annoying, deserve compassion. After all, wealthy children don't get to select their parents anymore than less weathy children.

Let's not divide human suffering according to class.

The article was sensationalised but it resonated with me. Such sad lives sprawled across the skin of our gloomy world.

I dislike the naive tough love bullshit though. Tough love isn't really love IMO.

My point is pretty much summed up by Bagseed below. I never introduced horses into the conversation, the author did. I never introduced the beauty of the girl into the debate, the author did. What was her point do you think? Because asking me, you are asking the wrong person.

Accusing me of a lack of compassion just shows you don't know me. I introduced the other 250000 heroin addicts into the conversation, no beauty or horses necessary.

the way I see it, they are not critisizing the girl nor her family but the tendency of people to have more compassion with addicts who come from middle class or wealthy backgrounds as opposed to poor junkies who probably "had it coming".

would the Media be interested in this story if the girl came from a poor low class background and write heartbreaking stories about it? I doubt it.

^ This.

Thanks so much for sharing this. It's refreshing to see someone who gets it and who isn't ignorant and judgmental because they have a chip on their shoulder. I was considering just deleting the whole story tbh due to all the negative and downright hostile replies and not ever post again outside "the dark side" forums. Glad I didn't now.

Love and hugs

F'loki

I'm not ignorant, I spent years working with heroin addicts. What chip do I have on my shoulder? The only one is the unfair treatment of all addicts and their right to fix themselves. Rather than trying to pretend we're alleviating suffering through publishing the story of someone who fits our reader/listener demographic.

To consider deleting the thread because you thought you detected hostile replies is, frankly, pathetic. This is a debating board. Debates usually involve more than one opinion. That's kinda the point.
 
No, that was lack of compassion. Half of my family are wealthy*. Does that mean my suffering is less? That seems to be what is being implied. That's bullshit IMO.

*Half are dirt poor. I hope they get the suffering they are entitled to :\ 8)

And that too is pathetic. I thought you were better than that.
 
I'm not ignorant, I spent years working with heroin addicts. What chip do I have on my shoulder? The only one is the unfair treatment of all addicts and their right to fix themselves. Rather than trying to pretend we're alleviating suffering through publishing the story of someone who fits our reader/listener demographic.

To consider deleting the thread because you thought you detected hostile replies is, frankly, pathetic. This is a debating board. Debates usually involve more than one opinion. That's kinda the point.


I never called you ignorant? You took that as a "direct hostile reply" yourself to be honest, when in reality I was talking about many of the general public being ignorant and judgmental and many addicts having chips on their shoulder. Sorry if I didn't make that clear and you felt I was attacking you. I see it every day in rehab though: People judging others in group sessions because they really do have chips on their shoulder and think "Oh that guy has no right to be unhappy and addicted because he comes from a middle/upper-class background". Thankfully the group moderators point out why this is a poor attitude to have (and unacceptable in a group therapy session) and rightfully remove them if they persist.

As for considering deleting the thread: If you find me "pathetic" because of that, then most definitely is YOU being judgmental and hostile, so you might want to reflect on why you are being hypocritical and aggressive towards me because you appear to have gotten the wrong end of the stick completely. I am not going to rise (or stoop) to your level and argue on a forum with someone I never met though, as that really is pathetic...And as for debating. Yeah debating is fine, but when you start the debate by being hostile and aggressive by calling people names and belittlering the story that is not really debating, it's a hatchet job (so I thought perhaps if no one liked the article then it should be removed? Not sure how this is 'pathetic' in your eyes, as it's a pretty logical response, but again only you know that), and I think you really should take a look at how you are debating and communicating, as I am not the only one to call you out on your lack of compassion and tact: The two mods here have and the reason you are now attacking me is because you are butthurt and have a bruised ego. That is your problem, not mine.

That is end of discussion for me as I feel no desire to waste time discussing this with aggressive, negative people. Just better to block/ignore and walk away.

In any way, I wish you all the best (despite your nasty nature towards everyone in this thread, that's your suffering not mine, so I can't be angry at you for that).

F'loki

And PS thank you for the lessons :)
 
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