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Why does only prozac prevent neurotoxicity?

B

bipolar

Bluelighter
Joined
Jun 10, 2003
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36
I was wondering why only prozac prevents neurotoxicity.
Isn't the reason that it prevents neurotoxicity because it's give you some serotonine so there won't go any dopamine threw you serotonine receptors? Well.. that is the reason i guess.

If that is so.. why don't all SSR's prevent neurotoxicity?
 
They haven't conducted any conclusive studies as of yet for the next generation SSRI's. And if they have, the results aren't widely known.

The general assumption is that they will have similar effects, but until then it's only theory.

And the way Prozac inhibits potential axon damage is 2 fold:

1.) as long as your synapse has seratonin, statistically speaking very little or no dopamine will be drawn into seratonin reuptake transport mechanisms.

2.) The Prozac molecule actually clogs/binds with the reuptake mechanism...not only keeping more seratonin in the synapse instead of allowing it to be reabsorbed, but also directly blocking the uptake of dopamine as well.

The damage is theoretically caused by one or both of the following:

1.) Excessive temperature in the synapse due to the heavy release of seratonin (which helps to regulate bodily temperature in normal doses). The overabundance of seratonin raises the temperature which can be quite dangerous to your organs, including your brain. All that stuff is quite sensitive to temperature fluctuations.

2.) There is an enzyme called MonoAmine Oxidase present in the area of the axon in which seratonin is reabsorbed...it's job is to break 5ht (seratonin) back down. Well, it is incapable of effectively breaking down dopamine, causing the dopamine to behave as a free radical, damaging the axon and causing it to curl away from it's associated dendrite. This increases the size of the synapse, requiring your body to produce more of any neurotransmitter in order to pass the same electric impulses from the axon to the dendrite.

But then again, I'm just a layman...so take all of this as such.
 
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BTW, are you actually bipolar? If so, MDMA maybe the worst drug you can take since it is highly likely that it will exacerbate your condition.
 
The problem I always have with this theory is that it takes several weeks for the effects of Prozac to kick in.

I'm not sure what people taking it on the comedown are realy trying to do.
 
Well.. i'm not really bipolar.. when i where in a depressed state a few months ago (what was after xtc use.. :S.. but i only used half-ones though for a few times) i called myself that...

Now i don't think that the depression (i even wouldn't call it a depression) came from the xtc.. but from other drug behaviour like smoking weed everyday etc..

No one considers me bipolar.. and i also don't think i am.. maybe i have some anxiety problems.. but they're not huge and don't think that they have anything to do with bipolar..
but thanx for you advice.. is that really true? Do you have some links to research.

And btw.. thanx for your big reply
 
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Johny Boy said:
The problem I always have with this theory is that it takes several weeks for the effects of Prozac to kick in.

I'm not sure what people taking it on the comedown are realy trying to do.
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Well, the chemical effects of prozac works directly.. isn't that so?
The theory about that it takes several weeks to kick in is just that only then the drug will really helps your depression?

Am i wrong? I don't know..
 
Maybe, I'm not sure but I thought it took time to accumulate!
 
Chemical effects of Prozac start working after ingestion. It just takes awhile to reap the possitive benifits that the SSRI has to offer.
2.) There is an enzyme called MonoAmine Oxidase present in the area of the axon in which seratonin is reabsorbed...it's job is to break 5ht (seratonin) back down. Well, it is incapable of effectively breaking down dopamine, causing the dopamine to behave as a free radical, damaging the axon and causing it to curl away from it's associated dendrite.
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Yes and no. There is an enzyme called MonoAmine Oxidase that breaks down Serotonin. When you start to reuptake Dopamine, the enzyme MAO CAN and does break down the Dopamine into hydrogen peroxide. Both Dopamine and the broken down product hydrogen peroxide are toxic to the cell.

Taken Here from Dancesafe.org
 
Johny Boy said:
Maybe, I'm not sure but I thought it took time to accumulate!
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It takes time to accumulate so that you can experience therapeutic benefits such as relief from anxiety/depression (or whatever your condition), but you will obtain neuro protection after a single dose since the drug will still perform its immediate task of blocking the receptors that are in danger of being damaged by the post-mdma consumption.
 
DJ Gringo said:
Chemical effects of Prozac start working after ingestion. It just takes awhile to reap the possitive benifits that the SSRI has to offer.

Yes and no. There is an enzyme called MonoAmine Oxidase that breaks down Serotonin. When you start to reuptake Dopamine, the enzyme MAO CAN and does break down the Dopamine into hydrogen peroxide. Both Dopamine and the broken down product hydrogen peroxide are toxic to the cell.

Taken Here from Dancesafe.org
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Thanx.. thought so..

But.. do you guys really think ingesting prozac after ingesting mdma will prevent neurotoxicity?

And.. will other SSRI's also work?
 
In my personal opinion, I believe the prozac method to work as numerous studies show that it offers neuroprotective effects when administered to animals. Of course these studies are on animals and their brain structure is probably not 100% identical to a humans but if you ask me, seeing the array of animals it does work in, it's hard to think that it wouldn't be just as effective in a human brain.

Also keep in mind that just because prozac offers these protective effects, doesn't mean that your being 100% safe. I wouldn't go out eating pills 3 days in a row just because your taking a prozac after each session.

And about other SSRI's, I'm not really sure. I haven't run across any studies or tests that have used anything other than prozac. You would think that they would but it's very uncertain.
 
I also believe that prozac works, and I believe that other SSRIs work pretty much just as well, though they do not last as long so I suggest taking TWO doses 8 hours apart for maximum coverage.

As was said, prozac starts doing stuff in your brain from the moment you start taking it, but doesn't start helping with psychiatric disorders until several weeks of taking it. For our purposes, though, prozac is fully active from the first dose.
 
Negro-kitty said:
I also believe that prozac works, and I believe that other SSRIs work pretty much just as well, though they do not last as long so I suggest taking TWO doses 8 hours apart for maximum coverage.

As was said, prozac starts doing stuff in your brain from the moment you start taking it, but doesn't start helping with psychiatric disorders until several weeks of taking it. For our purposes, though, prozac is fully active from the first dose.
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I would be logical if all other SSRI's would work as well because they do the same as prozac does.. but there is just one thing i don't understand.. why do they scientist say only prozac works?

And btw: So.. would it be good too take two dose of SSRI's after 6 hours of ingestion the mdma and take some later cause of the short duration?.. can you tell?

Thnx..
 
I have founed this on the internet:

SSRI type antidepressants have been shown to impart a neuroprotective effect after a roll as well. Specifically fluoxetine [Prozac] has been shown to prevent neurotoxic effects in animals.

So other SSRI's will most probably work as well.. but prozac will work better i think.. :)
 
THey say only prozac works, because only prozac has been studied. That is the only reason. And there are studies that say that they believe other SSRis would work as well.

Yep, take one dose after you comedown, another 8 hours later.
 
i will put down the peak plasma and 1/2 degradetion time of the substance. according to Farmaco Therapeutic compas 1998 (slightly outdated and roughly translated from dutch) which many of our docters used to use ad some interrested people use for personal investigative reasons.

citalopram: peak 3 hours 1/2 time 36 hours
fluoxetine (prozac) : peak 6/ 8 hours 1/2 time 2/ 3 days, 7/ 9 days active metabolite nor-fluoxetine.
fluvoxamine : 2/ 8 hours 1/2 time 22 hours.
paroxetine : unknown (by me) 1/2 time 24 hours.
sertraline : 6/ 8 hour 1/2 time 26 hours.

the research around mdma toxicity did not only use fuoxetine but other ssri s aswell. i have no reason to believe one would be exceptionally better then the other.

according the onset (peak plasma used as a pin point)) and duration of action. different stragetgies would be needed for the different ssri s.

if they would all work equally efficient (which is not proven/ like anything concerning mdma) the slow onset of fluoxetine is a good thing all the others have an quicker or equal onset (except maybe paroxetine) . . most research was with this substance although i have also read citalopram being used, aswell as some others.

problem is the long duration of action. when dealing with one of the 3 below i would take another one on awaking or after x hours. and with citalopram at least a 1/2 or maybe an whole.

the 2 ssri s i used were paroxetine and fluvoxamine. they both seemed to work as tool but i liked fluvoxamine better. it was less naussiating, sedating and generally more tolerable. citalopram looks nice seeing onset time and 1/2 time but i haven t tried it.

an disadvantage of the faster action of all other ssri s opposed to prozac/ fluoxetine is the possibility of killing your roll. like witnessed with people on ssri s taking mdma and witnissing nada.
 
The SSRI's i have is fluvoxamine.. i see this one have the shortes duration..

Would it be good to take one dose 5 hours after last mdma ingestion and another dose 6 hours after that?
 
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