Why did PMA never take off but GHB has??

[Jamie Oliver]

I'd argue that GHB's reputation as 'liquid ecstasy' makes it attractive to the uneducated and therefore increases its popularity

 

[zaki]

ummm....and let me remind ppl, OD'ing on G doesnt put you in a deep sleep like state...that only happens after you start convulsing, throwing up and looking like some dying animal.
that deep sleep like state is also known as a coma, which you're not likely to come out of.

Ok you sound like a representative for some government in that satement. I dont see how you can claim that your not likely to come out of a g sleep. You are implying that more than 50% of people who OD on G die. That is a similar statement to the claim that 20% of the monkeys that where supposedly given MDMA died therefor 20% of MDMA users should be dead every weekend. If you count only the G OD's that happen to get taken to hospital then you are looking at around 11 per weekend in melbourne alone, i seem to remember that figure being posted on BL by a DR at the Alfred. Ok so you take those 11 and put that beside your statement that youre not likely to come out of this "coma" and assume that you mean that over 50% of people who OD on G wont wake up. so lets say that gives us atleast 6+ fatal OD's on G weekly? Well i havnt heard of a G fatality for some time.......

On another note it takes a fairly hefty G OD to send you into the coma you speek of. Most people who g-out are just in a deep sleep. Infact i also remember reading here that when you blow out youre body is just being prompted into a natural sleep cycle including REM and all the other sleepy terms that i dont know.

G is dangerous and is potentially fatal, however in responsible use i think its great fun and as we have also read on BL it is non toxic. It is horribly easy to blow out and for that reason i am very carefull when i use it at clubs and i only charge on around 2ml and go lower with each following charge to ensure that i dont blow out in the club, however when at home or in a house i feel safer and i have people to keep track of me so i can push up toward the 3ml charges.

If you use the stuff be responsible and take care, also make sure you have trusted people around you. This is true for all drugs.


To respond to the thread topic. I think its because of the lethal nature of PMA that people didnt take to it like they did to G. I dont understand alot about PMA but i have heard of more PMA fatalities than i have any other party drugs. G is also extremely cheap and therefor very attractive to the "raver" who goes out frequently and cant afford more expensive drugs.

But as i said before G is non-toxic and can be used frequently without doing such things as depleting serotonin. Thats why i find it attractive as it offers something for me to do between my mdma hits. Speed is obviously another solution to not taking MDMA but its too expensive to get enough for a night out. + i am very warey of how much i love my speed and am carefull to avoid addiction. G is the cheeper and in some respects safer alternative.....

I expect flames back on this as i know there is plenty of animosity out there against GHB but hey these are my views and if i did make any false statements please correct me.

 

[phase_dancer]

.... and as we have also read on BL it is non toxic

ALL DRUGS ARE TOXIC.

Anything which significantly alters homeostasis is by definition a toxin. While it's true to say GHB is a natural body chemical (endogen) and that it metabolises into harmless products, it's also very true that it can kill you if you take too much.

Any hospital admission requiring intubation or other forms of assisted respiration is always regarded as serious, a condition considered - at least - to be potentially life threatening.

It's all in the dose, just like any other drug.

The emphasis in this case lies in the dose-response; A little does nothing, a bit more does something, a bit more does heaps.

Do the first 2 parts of this tutorial and you should understand it completely.

Toxicology -Tutor 1


BTW, thanks for your comments zaki. I agree with much of what you've said.

 

[Samadhi]

Dont worry about the flames zaki, was a good responce!

 

[zaki]

sorry maybe the term i needed to use was non-nuerotoxic? maybe thats what i read somewhere on BL. I will search for the text later.

 

[phase_dancer]

sorry maybe the term i needed to use was non-nuerotoxic

mmm...that's if you include a lack of oxygen to the brain as being a natural occurence. Try holding your breath till you pass out. You'll start breathing as soon as you do.

I know what you're saying zaki; that GHB doesn't seem to damage any parts of the brain directly (that we yet know of) and that it's metabolites are all pretty much non-toxic. I agree completely with what I understand of the drug's actions. But in explaining the merits or otherwise of a drug, it's important to use appropriate terms to avoid ridicule. I didn't intend to do this myself although it may have come across that way with the above shouting. Apologies if this was so - we all do this from time to time, me as much as anyone.

 

[Runner2]

Haven't read the whole thread so I don't know if anyone has mentioned, but making a GHB analog such GBL is literally a one step process from easily aquired chemicals. Manufacture of PMA is a fairly involved process even seeing that the precursor is much more available than a precursor to MDMA. Also active doses of GBL are very low - in mils - and if someone is producing it, liters can be made with ease in short period of time - so obviously very profitable. PMA on the other hand is a different story. Active doses are somewhere between 10mg and 40mg - and above is discouraged (well all use of either compounds mentioned above is discouraged by me), but I remember Shulgin speaking of PMA dosages before, so any Shulgin fans can correct me if I am wrong.