• N&PD Moderators: Skorpio

Why cant you make life ?

I am not saying yes or no (in regards to religion). I am just saying "its" possible. And again, our minds incapable of understanding our universal scale and sheer magnitude. When I look through a telescope, my mind starts racing, in a fear of sorts....

I agree that the "Christian church" is seriously flawed, if one were to subscribe these beliefs they would need to seriously reform. I also agree, that in its current form, it breeds hate, racism, elitism, ignorance. I remember saying the word "evolution" when talking to some evangelical Christians, and they appeared shocked, as if I had said some unspeakable curse-word.

I admit that I do not understand atheism either, from what I thought, atheism requires "faith", which I always thought was rather odd. Again, my understanding of atheism is at best, poor. However to deny the possibility of a possibility seems to me, rather illogical.

In the end, who the F*** knows; not I.........
 
Oh, and the only thing unique about "the bible" is that it appears to be god in pursuit of man, while the other texts appeared to be man in seek of god.

Again I haven't read every religious text, but I think it is important for a man of reason to the read these texts in order to better understand the billions of our co-inhabitants who subscribe to these beliefs.

But as they say in Latin, Non novi..........
 
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Negro, your posts are always a good read (and aften a good head scratching) but this last trajectory really takes the cake. I do believe I have never seen anyone go from vet technician to practicing medical doctor to using flawed stastical probability to both disprove evolution and simultaneously prove the involvement of an intelligent "higher power" in one fell swoop. Leaves me almost speechless.....almost
 
Bullshit! DNA per se is not alive but just a very large double-helix polymer.


I have not seen your calculation but I'm convinced the approach is flawed from the very beginning. And in contrary to subjective 'believing' is this assumption based on experimental evidence and objective logic, IMHO still the best ways to prove a theory.
First, it is hardly possible to perform such a calculation because many variables are not all known. Second, there were numerous experiments published during the last decades that showed succesfully that under the conditions of the very early Earth it was indeed possible that small molecules are formed, including amino acids, simple lipids, nucleic acids and sugars. Look up Miller & Urey! And this includes simple dipeptides, too. If this impressive evidence proves something than its that your calculation must be wrong.



You summarized in short and very eloquently what humans are not able to comprehend for hundreds of years, that is: This universe, our planet and the life on it can not be explained in simple terms. This is really nothing personal, please don't me wrong here, but only because you are not capable of comprehending how e.g. life evolved - than this means nothing. I have a vague idea but in the end I can not imagine it, too. The human mind, at least of the vast majority of our specimen, is simply not able to grasp complex constructs like the creation of life, the dimensions of our universe or what "time" means (in physical terms), just to cite some of the main riddles of modern times. To assume that - therefore - some kind of intelligent design must have been evolved is nothing else than to surrender to the mind-baffling complexity of nature/the universe/call it as you like.



Woooooow... now that is some heavy stuff. One of the most common misconceptions (usually of religious people) is to sort atheism into the multitude of other religions. This is so entirely wrong, it simply defies description. Atheism is not just another religion on its own, but the absence resp. denial of religion!!! Thus, it represents the counterpart to all other religions, and does not dwell amongst their ranks.
It is neither delusional nor uneducated to deny the existence of any supernatural being, may it be elves, fairies, ghosts or Mr. God himself. It is rather the thoughtful choice pro science and sanity, and contra biased dogmas, supernatural explanations of all kinds and simply unprovable rubbish.



The Bible can be taken at most, very much like the Thora, the Koran or any other 'holy' book or writing, as an abstract code of ethics and moral beliefs (many of them highly questionable and/or obsolete), interspersed with some historical details. Personally, I consider it nothing else than a book of fairytales for folks whos can not stand the complexity of this universe resp. the part which science has discovered to date. Yes: SCIENCE! The 'church' of atheists like me.



Come on, please don't try to preach to same bullshit-elitism to us like all major religions. How can every religion seriously try make people believe that all other believes must be wrong to some extend, and that there's only one truth?! Why is the book of Mormon flawed but the Bible is not? Both were created by men, written by men and are propagated by men. How come that one can claim the ultimate truth when there is no objective evidence for either belief? Literally every holy book is interlaced with political, ethnical (sometimes even racist) and moral standards of the times when it was written. If I had to decide for any of these writings, I surely preferred a more modern piece and not one that propagates the dealth penalty for adultery or homosexuality or for believing in another religion, cruel punishments like stoning; or that forbids the use of condoms and contraceptives despite >7 billion humans on this planet, ca. 33 millions of them bearing HIV. WTF?!
Great post, and an interesting thread. I hadn't read it before because I understand (very much in outline) the problems with creating life already, and thought there nothing interesting to read here. i was in error.
 
That's not the same as creating life. Creating DNA isn't anything new. Creating an organisms entire set of DNA and implanting it into a cell is new, and a major step forward, but it says more about our improving ability to produce the DNA than it does about our ability to produce new life.

Actually creating an entire cell from scratch that goes on to live and reproduce will probably happen within the next decade, but it hasn't happened yet.

I see where you're coming from but DNA acts as the blueprints for complex life. It would be kind of pointless creating all the cellular structures from scratch then implanting the DNA only to yield the same result as taking a preexisting cell and slab custom built DNA in it. If humans were ever to fully understand how genes interact and are able to create the wide array of proteins in our bodies then in theory we will be able to create all kinds of creatures. Imagine a program that linked to a database of all known gene sequences/combination. Eventually you could simply design your own creature, set the required parameters and the program would spit out the correct DNA sequence. Slab that into a preexisting cell and watch your creature slowly grow.

Now if you stem away from carbon based life and if we managed to create say a silicon based life system...that would truly be creating life.
 
Imagine a program that linked to a database of all known gene sequences/combination. Eventually you could simply design your own creature, set the required parameters and the program would spit out the correct DNA sequence. Slab that into a preexisting cell and watch your creature slowly grow.

Or modify a fax machine to transmit acid. I'm holding on to my obsolete BROTHER this precise event.
 
Did I not say my calculation was highly flawed? I am no statistical wizard, I just did some calculations out of curiosity.

I have neither proved nor disproved anything......just made myself a bit more confused.....And if I appeared to suggest that evolution does not exist, I either misspoke or was misunderstood; evolution is a real measurable phenomena, again those who have fooled with PCR's know how real it is......

This is heading a bit too far into philosophy, and I am by no means a philosopher or theologian.......I apologize for fanning the flames, again I was simply giving my humble input. I know not the secrets of this world, the universe etc......My brain is too simple to even begin to attempt to understand......which is why I am almost fearful to look into telescopes etc.........(sort of like Shulgin's description of his MDMA experience, afraid to turn around because of the beauty)....

I don't know, and again, just because i am a physician does not make me a metaphysician!
 
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