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Why are there so many research chemicals being used and sold in the UK?

Sammy G said:
None of those opioid analogues have really been sold all that widely compared to the likes of meph though, have they? In fact, the sale of AH-7921 is restricted to certain 'advanced' members of RC websites, whereas the likes of butyrfentanyl are straight-up illegal.

You'd like to see more benzo analogues? Seriously?

I think there are more than enough on the market as it is, and they've already caused huge short-term problems. I dread to think of the effect that they'll have on people long-term. If anything's likely to lead to a blanket ban on RCs, benzos are a likely candidate.
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Idk... I mean we can't really talk specifics due to the no sourcing rules, but I know of at least one clear web site with good safe or scam reviews with fentanyl analogues, no invite required, as far as I can tell (never bought any because I never liked opiates). There's more butyrfentanyl... There's also MT-45, but I have no idea if it's any good. The only two I've tried are AH-7921 (good for pain, meh otherwise) and o-desmethyltramadol which was quite nice, but isn't available anymore.

Yes seriously, I'm very interested in benzo analogues, that's one of my favorite drug classes :D I'd be really happy if flutazolam, flutoprazepam, nifoxipam, the new pyrazolam analogues, ... became more widely available.
I know about that many people had/have/will have problems from addiction, but that's not so much the drugs fault as the users. Besides if the 4 current ones are enough for ppl to get addicted, a few more will hardly make it much worse, imo.

And just banning all of them over night is bound to cause problems too... all those with dependence problems suddenly loosing their supply... that would be a very shitty situation.

Note that I'm not advocating taking benzos all the time, but for me, used occasionally they are a great drug.
 
My question was more wondering why the people who are developing the wave of RCs aren't pushing more for the highly addictive substances and exploring those routes. Would seem to be the logical thing to do for someone making drugs, you want that repeat custom.
 
^^ Only if you are RC vendor scum/lowlife.

The reputable RC vendors want quality chemicals... that in itself will draw customers in & results in repeat custom.

I don't know how you think this all works but it's a lot more complicated finding RCs that are legal, relatively safe & effective. All the obvious analogues are illegal & most others just don't work or will do you harm.
 
omen_owen mk2 said:
My question was more wondering why the people who are developing the wave of RCs aren't pushing more for the highly addictive substances and exploring those routes. Would seem to be the logical thing to do for someone making drugs, you want that repeat custom.
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What about benzos?

There are loads of analogues on sale, and not one site seems to warn of their potential to cause addiction. I'd wager that RC vendors have created an entire new generation of addicts.
 
My best guess in answer to the question is that RCs in the U.K. probably lack the stigma of other, more traditional drugs. Plus it probably costs more to get "traditional" drugs to the U.K., which increases the price, and creates a set of circumstances in which demand+lack of stigma+lower price makes RCs a more popular choice for both vendors and consumers. Sure, you hear about the occasional RC-related suicide in the U.K., but in the U.S. you hear about ultraviolent zombie face-eating crazy people ... and worse. Then there was the guy who was found naked in his bedroom with his neighbor's goat, which he had apparently slaughtered and had sex with. Let's not forget the kid in Louisiana who slashed his own throat in front of his family after a bath salt bender.

Long story short, the U.S. media has done what it's very good at -- it has grabbed on to something, sensationalized it, and stigmatized RCs while, I would argue, making the traditional drugs look safer. Minus the stigma, I imagine that in the U.K. that RCs will run the traditional epidemic-style course of other drugs. They will be glamorous for a while, then slowly work their way down through the classes until they are viewed much like crack-cocaine is in the U.S. -- a poor people's alternative. The various elements in the U.S., most notably the police-media relationship, however, stigmatized RCs early on, so it's unlikely they will ever get much of a foothold here.
 
There is no lack of stigma in the UK. Your right on the price though
 
omen_owen mk2 said:
My question was more wondering why the people who are developing the wave of RCs aren't pushing more for the highly addictive substances and exploring those routes. Would seem to be the logical thing to do for someone making drugs, you want that repeat custom.
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You wont get repeat custom if your customers are dead. Imagine people with no clue getting bags of high potency opiates bundled through their letter box. It would be absolute chaos.

RC vendors dont want to invite police attention. The other substances are a calculated risk imo.
 
Thanks very much, still reading but I intend to read every word of it.

So far I think a lot of good points have been made and you taught me about some culture and history stuff, but on the other hand some of it does seem like circular reasoning or causality dilemmata (chicken vs. egg..)

I get that some of it is self-reinforcing effects starting with the mephedrone thing, which may have found its place in the UK because of ecstasy culture... also it was not readily apparent or obvious to me that vendors are following the example of others and it is not just like random people all over the world decide to start an RC webshop to equal extents everywhere.

Sammy G said:
Are there all that many psychedelics compared to the number of stims though?

Obviously there's a bit of a crossover between the two categories of drugs which muddies the waters, but think about some of the nasty stims like naphyrone and the unnamed chemicals in the NRG series. There have been quite a few. I think if there is any bias toward psychedelics it's because historically that's what the RC market has really catered for.
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Agreed. Maybe if you consider the PIHKAL and TIHKAL alphabet soup phenethylamines and tryptamines but those have a different origin.

Please name me the extensive list of novel psychedelic research chemicals but I actually can't wait until there are some actual new developments. bk-2C-B isn't really cutting it for me, although admittedly I have not tried my sample of it yet.

ValentinoSix said:
My best guess in answer to the question is that RCs in the U.K. probably lack the stigma of other, more traditional drugs. Plus it probably costs more to get "traditional" drugs to the U.K., which increases the price, and creates a set of circumstances in which demand+lack of stigma+lower price makes RCs a more popular choice for both vendors and consumers. Sure, you hear about the occasional RC-related suicide in the U.K., but in the U.S. you hear about ultraviolent zombie face-eating crazy people ... and worse. Then there was the guy who was found naked in his bedroom with his neighbor's goat, which he had apparently slaughtered and had sex with. Let's not forget the kid in Louisiana who slashed his own throat in front of his family after a bath salt bender.

Long story short, the U.S. media has done what it's very good at -- it has grabbed on to something, sensationalized it, and stigmatized RCs while, I would argue, making the traditional drugs look safer. Minus the stigma, I imagine that in the U.K. that RCs will run the traditional epidemic-style course of other drugs. They will be glamorous for a while, then slowly work their way down through the classes until they are viewed much like crack-cocaine is in the U.S. -- a poor people's alternative. The various elements in the U.S., most notably the police-media relationship, however, stigmatized RCs early on, so it's unlikely they will ever get much of a foothold here.
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Certain PCX based arylcyclohexylamines can probably be blamed for that, especially the dopaminergic ones prone to cause mania (and may have a nasty habit of having a relatively sudden point where effects can shift to that hole of insanity)... UK probably has more of a K culture rather than PCP culture, I think under the wrong circumstances dissociatives can cause really sick incidents just about anywhere but culture and legislation of course can have a serious influence.

I don't know if novel dissociatives like diphenidine and methoxphenidine can lead to freak accidents or just, erm, uncouth behavior.
 
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I think the market for rcs in the uk reflects something that predated meph - meph just provided a lucrative new mechanism to cash in on it; certainly the massive amount of people partaking in ecstasy in the 90s (2 million a week?) and just the growth of the drug sub-culture generally since the 60s compared to other countries speaks of something more long term. Maybe it's got some link to our 'anglo-saxon' heritage or something (british celts seem no different though ;) - though i saw a documentary the other day sayng there wasn't a celtic or saxon invasion, just culture/fashion/language adoption...)
 
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