doppelganga196
Bluelighter
Bojangles, man, lady, whatever, i've thought u a decent member here before but reading your above post! Shut the fuck up! All that juvenile rubbish - keep it to yourself...
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OD Moderators: Keif’ Richards | negrogesic
Opioids Who uses opioids as anti-depressants?
- Thread starter What was it?
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pfn_247
Greenlighter
- Joined
- Sep 8, 2011
- Messages
- 23
Look , i dont need to talk to some immature person that resorts to name calling & putting people down when they have different opinions.If you believe that the World isnt a cruel place where thousands of kids and adults die of starvation everyday , are terrorized by Wars , where people are sold into slavery so rich assholes can fuck little kids , where 2 percent of the population control the majority of wealth , etc...Then so be it.I have nothing else to say to you...Nothing!!!Whats sad is i actually feel sorry for you.Just leave me alone , regardless im not going to reply to anything you have to say , its not worth my time or effort!
cmertzycm
Greenlighter
befitnessnow
Greenlighter
- Joined
- Mar 25, 2011
- Messages
- 21
I love the topic. I'll start with this...
I've seen more Psych's in my day then I'd ever need to for a lifetime. I'm very particular and most of them just bother me, it took me a long time to find one I enjoy working with. Anyways, one time I expressed that opiates were the only thing which worked for me and why SSRI/SNRI's, etc, mechanisms of action did nothing for me, in my opinion. He referred me to another Psych which is the only one I have ever found that does this who specialized in "Opioid Therapy". To the point, he prescribes (I know he still does it because my current Psych works in the same hospital) opiates to people for anxiety disorders and depression. Refractory cases of course, all other meds must be failed and documented first. He said he had a lot of people on Vicodin daily, a good amount on OxyContin, again, daily, and some found good relief with 2-3 day intervals of MS Contin (Morphine Sulfate) to get there endorphins pumping. He said he preferred to use Tramadol with patients though, if it worked. He believed some of us lacked the proper amount of opiate receptor productivity. This was about 4 years ago though and I was a very impatient 21 year old at that time, which led to us falling out before anything was ever scripted. Bear in mind, though these doctors exist they are extremely few and far between and any doctor that is willing to prescribe opiates for anxiety/depression, not only puts there license on the line but also there freedom potentially.
I feel that the idea of treatment of Depression through opiates is an incredibly fine line though. I see the Pro's and I see the Con's and they are both offer very strong cases. I believe much more studies need to be and will be done on opiate receptors in terms of mental health. Endorphins are one of the only neurotransmitters which do play a large role in any of the long line of typical Anti-Depressants available.
I've seen more Psych's in my day then I'd ever need to for a lifetime. I'm very particular and most of them just bother me, it took me a long time to find one I enjoy working with. Anyways, one time I expressed that opiates were the only thing which worked for me and why SSRI/SNRI's, etc, mechanisms of action did nothing for me, in my opinion. He referred me to another Psych which is the only one I have ever found that does this who specialized in "Opioid Therapy". To the point, he prescribes (I know he still does it because my current Psych works in the same hospital) opiates to people for anxiety disorders and depression. Refractory cases of course, all other meds must be failed and documented first. He said he had a lot of people on Vicodin daily, a good amount on OxyContin, again, daily, and some found good relief with 2-3 day intervals of MS Contin (Morphine Sulfate) to get there endorphins pumping. He said he preferred to use Tramadol with patients though, if it worked. He believed some of us lacked the proper amount of opiate receptor productivity. This was about 4 years ago though and I was a very impatient 21 year old at that time, which led to us falling out before anything was ever scripted. Bear in mind, though these doctors exist they are extremely few and far between and any doctor that is willing to prescribe opiates for anxiety/depression, not only puts there license on the line but also there freedom potentially.
I feel that the idea of treatment of Depression through opiates is an incredibly fine line though. I see the Pro's and I see the Con's and they are both offer very strong cases. I believe much more studies need to be and will be done on opiate receptors in terms of mental health. Endorphins are one of the only neurotransmitters which do play a large role in any of the long line of typical Anti-Depressants available.
redsweater
Bluelighter
i used oxy's for like 2 months when i was depressed, would just take a few and lie in bed all day
obviously this was unsustainable, not just for my wallet but also for my growing tolerance and physological addiction
when my parents found out they sent me to a doc + psych and i got put on tricyclics and ssris
they did improve it a bit, but i could never commit to taking them long term
eventually i started getting back into the old things i enjoy (surfing, skating etc) and that totally changed my mindset.
IMO drugs are not the best way to treat depression, changing my behaviour helped me much more
obviously this was unsustainable, not just for my wallet but also for my growing tolerance and physological addiction
when my parents found out they sent me to a doc + psych and i got put on tricyclics and ssris
they did improve it a bit, but i could never commit to taking them long term
eventually i started getting back into the old things i enjoy (surfing, skating etc) and that totally changed my mindset.
IMO drugs are not the best way to treat depression, changing my behaviour helped me much more
anterrabae
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Jan 28, 2007
- Messages
- 308
Wow, this topic has been discussed over and over, more often in TDS I think, but at any rate...My opinion is that opiates certainly can be used for the treatment of depression. Only in small doses that have a long duration would be reasonable though of course. There was one thread on this topic where a few forum members produced medical documents in which psychiatrists prescribed opiates like bupe and Tramadol I believe, and the results were rather successful.
As for everyone being for/against the use of antidepressants like SSRIs, even though I don't like them much myself because I think they are prescribed way too often and some people expect these things to solve all their problems. There was recently a study in Britain where it was determined that in the end, antidepressants don't really work as they are advertised (I can't fucking stand the avalanche of antidepressant commercials here in America...'Are you sad sometimes? Tired, worn out, stressed?', blaarg). When push comes to shove, the individual has to be the one who conquers their depression, no pill or drug will ever accomplish that for you. They can be used as a crutch to get to that place eventually, but the problems which one's depression stem from have to be dealt with in one way or another.
I am not talking about disorders such as bipolar or schizophrenia, those are real chemical imbalances that do require drugs to maintain a stable state of mind. I'm only talking about depression, and not the severe kind either. If you are at the point of suicide, antidepressants, even the ever so evil Effexor can pull one back from the brink. Even if that same drug did cause me to have a psychotic episode and a month of hospitalization just to wean off of it, it did aid in my severe depression and desire to kill myself after nearly killing myself with a hefty dose of pentobarbital.
I will still take opiates on occasion (and I use the word very loosely, as I have used daily in the past for months), and I find nothing wrong with it as long as I can still keep my job, take care of myself properly, pay the bills, etc. So my answer to the OP's question? Yes, opiates can be antidepressants, but they have to be used with respect and the dose shouldn't escalate. Maintenance, not as one had posted before, an excuse to get/stay high all the time.
And in closing, this is an open forum for people to express their opinions, especially in a thread such as this. What's with all the name calling and put downs? Take it easy, guys.
As for everyone being for/against the use of antidepressants like SSRIs, even though I don't like them much myself because I think they are prescribed way too often and some people expect these things to solve all their problems. There was recently a study in Britain where it was determined that in the end, antidepressants don't really work as they are advertised (I can't fucking stand the avalanche of antidepressant commercials here in America...'Are you sad sometimes? Tired, worn out, stressed?', blaarg). When push comes to shove, the individual has to be the one who conquers their depression, no pill or drug will ever accomplish that for you. They can be used as a crutch to get to that place eventually, but the problems which one's depression stem from have to be dealt with in one way or another.
I am not talking about disorders such as bipolar or schizophrenia, those are real chemical imbalances that do require drugs to maintain a stable state of mind. I'm only talking about depression, and not the severe kind either. If you are at the point of suicide, antidepressants, even the ever so evil Effexor can pull one back from the brink. Even if that same drug did cause me to have a psychotic episode and a month of hospitalization just to wean off of it, it did aid in my severe depression and desire to kill myself after nearly killing myself with a hefty dose of pentobarbital.
I will still take opiates on occasion (and I use the word very loosely, as I have used daily in the past for months), and I find nothing wrong with it as long as I can still keep my job, take care of myself properly, pay the bills, etc. So my answer to the OP's question? Yes, opiates can be antidepressants, but they have to be used with respect and the dose shouldn't escalate. Maintenance, not as one had posted before, an excuse to get/stay high all the time.
And in closing, this is an open forum for people to express their opinions, especially in a thread such as this. What's with all the name calling and put downs? Take it easy, guys.
I have BPD. I have taken too many drugs to count, all the SSRI's, all the SNRI's, Nardil, Parnate, various mood stabilizers and anti-psychotics, xanax, lorazepam, clonazepam, ambien, lunesta, tempazepam. Some of the drugs work ok, and some are horrible, but nothing works well. I can never stay on a med for very long, and i take them more re-actively than consistently. At best I can get through work by not talking to anyone who might cause me to have an extreme emotional response. I'm forced into worker-bee, non-management positions because I know I will react inappropriately, getting myself fired. I hope to be a supervisor one day, but that is probably as high as I can go. I also have no friends. I learned that people (interpersonal communication) + bpd = disaster.
Taking low dose hydrocodone is the only thing that makes me feel normal. 'normal', a feeling I very seldom have otherwise. I have no interest in getting high off it. i just want to be able to not have such extreme agony going on inside my head all the time. I cant even focus my energy on my wife, kids, and house.
I seriouslly hope to god that some opioid like 'anti depressant' comes along to save me because I have thought about suicide far too many times.
i dont want to get high, i just want the constant noise inside my head to stop and I want to enjoy talking with people and my wife. i want to calm down. i was born with this. its so incredibly frustrating that death seems like the only way out.
ive been fired from good jobs for my condtion, because i was incapable of keeping my emotions from ruling my life
im so so pissed that no one recognizes bpd and docs just throw useless medication at us. they have no idea the turmoil going on inside our heads near 24/7
fml
Taking low dose hydrocodone is the only thing that makes me feel normal. 'normal', a feeling I very seldom have otherwise. I have no interest in getting high off it. i just want to be able to not have such extreme agony going on inside my head all the time. I cant even focus my energy on my wife, kids, and house.
I seriouslly hope to god that some opioid like 'anti depressant' comes along to save me because I have thought about suicide far too many times.
i dont want to get high, i just want the constant noise inside my head to stop and I want to enjoy talking with people and my wife. i want to calm down. i was born with this. its so incredibly frustrating that death seems like the only way out.
ive been fired from good jobs for my condtion, because i was incapable of keeping my emotions from ruling my life
im so so pissed that no one recognizes bpd and docs just throw useless medication at us. they have no idea the turmoil going on inside our heads near 24/7
fml
Lady Codone
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Mar 6, 2008
- Messages
- 2,134
Anyone who thinks opiates aren't a legitimate depression treatment should Google ALKS-5461. Here, I'll do it for you.
That's not to say they can't also be abused and lead to horrific addiction, but that's not the only outcome. I've used opiates to treat depression successfully off and on for 8+ years without becoming hopelessly addicted. If you're serious about using them for depression and not a high, it can be done.
When tolerance rises, take a break instead of increasing your dose. Never stop doing other things to treat your depression (counseling, exercise, etc). Depending on a drug--any drug--to be a magical cure is setting yourself up for failure. There is no cure for depression.
Keep in mind that withdrawals can make depression and anxiety 1,000x worse than anything you've felt before. Do everything in your power not to become physically dependent. If you lack this sort of self-control, opiates are not for you.
That's not to say they can't also be abused and lead to horrific addiction, but that's not the only outcome. I've used opiates to treat depression successfully off and on for 8+ years without becoming hopelessly addicted. If you're serious about using them for depression and not a high, it can be done.
When tolerance rises, take a break instead of increasing your dose. Never stop doing other things to treat your depression (counseling, exercise, etc). Depending on a drug--any drug--to be a magical cure is setting yourself up for failure. There is no cure for depression.
Keep in mind that withdrawals can make depression and anxiety 1,000x worse than anything you've felt before. Do everything in your power not to become physically dependent. If you lack this sort of self-control, opiates are not for you.
To be fair, I think the reason why it works for depression, is the high...relieves depression. I think the reason why many people get addicted, they seriously attempt to self medicate their depression, only to find themselves worst off.
Not to say it is white and black, as, I know it isn't but just making note of that.
One thing is I will put out here is one of my best friends, I met on opioids, never would of talked to him otherwise, it has been a year or two later, still good buds and I rarely use opioids.
Kinda shows how they can be used as a tool, but, the chances of those strides really being meaningful, not sure how common that is.
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You can't expect to be able to use opiates every single day for very long without getting addicted.
If you're going through a tough time and you feel the need to get high to escape your problems, I think it would be wiser to buy a selection of various different fuckaloids that work through different mechanisms and use them in rotations.
For example:
Day 1 - opiates.
Day 2 - MXE or some other dissociative.
Day 3 - benzos.
Day 4 - A psychedelic.
Day 5 - GHB or GBL.
If you're going through a tough time and you feel the need to get high to escape your problems, I think it would be wiser to buy a selection of various different fuckaloids that work through different mechanisms and use them in rotations.
For example:
Day 1 - opiates.
Day 2 - MXE or some other dissociative.
Day 3 - benzos.
Day 4 - A psychedelic.
Day 5 - GHB or GBL.
I've thought about concepts like this, truth be told, you're bound to be fucked.
I have no science to back that, but, I don't know ,it just seem bound to fall apart.
On another note, I've been stuck in a rut lately, a "dry spell" of sorts. Particularly with woman but my social life as well, but fuck me running, I am pretty got damn sure if I wanted to depend on opiates/opioids, I could being married with kids in 12 months. By the time I'd kick the habit, probably divorced and alone, but not sure if that is worst then my current circumstances.
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Bruce Haze
Bluelighter
I use buprenorphine as an antidepressant. It was going through clinical trials but they decided against using it as an antidepressant due to it causing opiate withdrawal.
I'm speaking from personal experience. I did this quite a lot last year and I always had my shit together. Obviously it takes some self-control but it can be done. You're not using anything frequently enough for tolerance or addiction to become an issue. Other than fuzzy-headedness in the morning I didn't run into any problems.
My recreational drug use at the moment consists of smoking a gram of weed every day, a can of beer every night (sometimes two) and taking 15mg Valium once a week (occasionally twice). I've also been eating a shitload of 2C-E recently.
I've been prescribed tramadol for this for at least 8 years and only have increased my dose once and somehow do not have withdrawals I take them 4 to 5 days a week and find they carry over for the next day usually so I don't need to take them everyday but I have taken up to 1500mg a day for 6 months and stopped cold Turkey with pills at my disposal and had no Wds not even anxiety or rebound depression, no explanation for how it just happened
SixBuckets
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Jan 21, 2015
- Messages
- 1,222
There's a difference between addiction and dependence. A huge number of medications, including SSRIs and SNRIs, create physical dependence without being addictive. That means you'll have withdrawal symptoms if you stop taking them, but you're highly unlikely to experience the psychological and physical symptoms of addiction.
We all know someone who's had a bad time coming off something like Effexor, but I would be very surprised if any of you could name a person who sits around thinking "Gosh darn it, I could really go a hit of Effexor" two years after discontinuing treatment.