Who Should Pay For College?

[Jerry Atrick]

I don't think that the government should pay for university. I see no reason why anyone should receive a service that will benefit them greatly in terms of future earnings at the expense of those who are employed, it should not be treated differently from any other good.

I agree completely.

Like make them take out loans for school initially, with the understanding that I would pay off the loans upon their graduation. If they waste the opportunity then it's on them.

Genius! This is a great idea.

Oh yeah and I have no interest in paying 50-60% income tax, thanks.

Ultimately, this.

 

[rant*N*rave]

I definitely think parents should at least try their damndest to help their kids get through college. Any children I have will be getting all the help I can give, with the stipulation that they not fuck around - every penny I have ever received from my parents for *anything* has always been with the expectation that I would be working my ass off (and I've had household chores since forever and a job since I was 11, and I was always a straight A student). My little brother has fucked around a lot, so he's getting a lot less help - he did not get to select his college, and he's living at home, and since he's on academic probation, if the school cuts him off, my parents will be cutting him off as well.

You have to also think about the fact that financial obligations can seriously strangle a college career. There is literally NO way I could have completed the degree program I chose while holding down a job good enough to pay even living expenses, let alone tuition. I went to a public, in-state school and had some scholarship money, but even with that, living expenses are outrageous here because we have 30,000+ students jammed onto a little isthmus, with more and more rich kids coming in from the coast every year jacking up prices (I'll put it this way - it's cheaper to drink at a strip club than the local dive bars, and the Urban Outfitters remodeled while all the local shops and restaurants were going out of business in the recession...). I did both honors in the major and honors in the college as well as every specialty class available (sometimes called "honors plus" because you have to be specially accepted via application and be in the honors program for most of them) to get a BS in biochemistry with a fantastic amount of depth and breadth, and I spent ungodly amounts of time studying. I would never give up how much I learned for how hard I worked, but I pretty much had to sacrifice some of my GPA in order to remain sane - not even joking, I saw more than a few kids crack up because they wanted those As so bad... Had my parents not been helping me out, I would have never made it in a million years.

I'm definitely not saying that you're a bad parent if you don't pay for your kids' college, but it's definitely something a good parent would do if they could.

And I would be cool with merit-based government scholarships for school. The private donations can help buy football players that the universities want, and the gov't money can help buy brainpower so the country doesn't end up a cesspool. I find it somewhat alarming that really bright and/or hard-working kids that could provide so much to the world can get totally screwed because they're poor...

 

[ebola?]

I would've done far worse in undergrad if I worked during it.

 

[voxmystic]

i think it should come out of the military budget (in the u.s., anyway). j/k. (not really)

of course i will help if i can -- i sent my oldest girl money and care packages while she was fucking off her scholarship -- but i'm not gonna mortgage our home for it.

 

[Aethos]

I paid for my own schooling, and turned down my parents help for it. I worked all through highschool, saved money from that job, and worked summers in between (and some of the winter breaks) years. Also opened a line of credit on my own to help out so I could stop working 16 hour days in the summers, and actually have some sembalance of a vacation in the summer months (after working 6 day weeks at 12-16 hours a say for 3 summers).

It was enough to get me through school with way less debt (around 20% of the friends that are comfortable talking about their finances with me) than people I know, simply because my parents taught me how to save money responsibly. I think teaching young folks how to be money concious and smart with their money is a way better idea than just paying for school, but it's nice to know that if something goes wrong, or if I had of gotten one of the internships that would help me with my career during the summer (but paid shit) my parents would have been able to help me out.

I think people SHOULD be able to pay for their own schools. At least in North America, where there are lines of credit, loans, scholarships everywhere, etc. Parents should, however be willing to help, but I don't think they should pay for the whole thing. But that's partly because it pissed me off so much to have friends who literally didn't work a day before they graduated from university, and just sat around and partied on their parents dime for the time I was busting my ass to make tuition .

 

[jpgrdnr]

We should and it should be cheap as dirt.

 

[Cyc]

I don't think that the government should pay for university. I see no reason why anyone should receive a service that will benefit them greatly in terms of future earnings at the expense of those who are employed, it should not be treated differently from any other good.

You missed satiricon's post then. He put it in very plain terms.

 

[Vader]

The government should pay, or at least provide a system like Australia's, because if there is no government support then poor children can not go to university.

That post? What I meant was that the reasons are not, to my mind, sufficient to justify the expenditure and the necessary taxation to pay for it. Poor children can take out loans against the expected gain in lifetime earnings that their degree will lead to. Of course there are reasons; I meant that there are no good reasons.

 

[raui]

Parents. My girlfriend worked two jobs through college and we still have to pay off her student loans because her parents weren't responsible enough to save money for their children's education. If you knew how frivolous they were with their finances, you could relate.
Just because they drove themselves into debt, now we have to start our life in the same situation and the degree doesn't even help find a job let alone a lucrative career.
Mind you, we both started college on academic probation and then worked our way up to the dean's list. (She actually graduated with like a 4.0 thanks to transferring)

I'm very grateful that my parents were able to support me. My brother had his degree paid for by them and he still took out loans because he has expensive tastes and lived it up out of state. And then his family still had tons of debt because his wife had to pay off her masters. Hell, my GF's parents were finally out of debt and then her mom got her degree and now they're back in the hole with a degree that barely helps find a career.

Now my HS is a diff story since my parents sent all of us to private schools.. mine was probably the cheapest though.

 

[helium-4]

I'm going to up my ass in debt after college. My parents help me with a few thousand dollars each year, which is nice, and considering that I have two other brothers who just recently graduated college and my sister is about to go to college, I understand them not being able to pay for all of our schooling. I am paying out of state right now (in NC at least), but trying to change that. Hopefully I'll find a decent job as a chemist.

 

[Cyc]

That post? What I meant was that the reasons are not, to my mind, sufficient to justify the expenditure and the necessary taxation to pay for it. Poor children can take out loans against the expected gain in lifetime earnings that their degree will lead to. Of course there are reasons; I meant that there are no good reasons.

Hold on. Are you saying that all people can take out unsecured loans with no cosigner, and put it against their expected lifetime gain? Is this a guaranteed right? If so, I'd like to see a source for this, and please be more specific about which Country you're talking about.

 

[Cyc]

I really don't think the government should pay for your college education. Like cilosyb said, since the government really has no stake in whether it's investments pay off or not, they will be far less likely to use their money wisely than a private organization that has a stake in the school's profitability. Government would end up spending more money on education than would've been spent in a private system, and I'd rather taxes and/or the deficit NOT go up even higher than they already are.

You need to completely turn your thinking around when it comes to education. What you suggest to will put a price tag on meritocracy, which will ultimately lead to an even more plutocratic society than the one we're living in. This is ultimately what we're trying to avoid.

The people and their elected representatives must pool resources and give equal opportunity for all people, regardless of age or past achievements a shot at educating themselves.

An institution of learning should never put profitability above their role as educators. That's why we should be looking at abolishing private sector education entirely, or marginalizing it to the few who would like specialty degrees that are not in demand.

As to who should pay, I'm sort of on the fence about that. While I think that parents are totally in their right to pay for their child's education if they have the money to spare, it does in many cases result in these entitled students who throw their parent's money down the drain. I feel like people appreciate it more and work harder if they have to pay for it themselves, or if they worked hard in school so they could get scholarships or financial aid. Even if the parents pay for most of it, at the very least the student going to school should help their parents out by working while at school or over the summer.

So what exactly are you on the fence about? So far, the government shouldn't pay and maybe the parents shouldn't either. So maybe higher education should be only for those with a wealthy family, or manage to save tens of thousands of dollars prior to a post-secondary education? (an oxymoron, considering the current job climate)

 

[ashtray girl]

Society at large (the government), we as a society all gain from a better educated population.

This is how it was in the UK until the late 90s. Unfortunately students are now expected to take out loans, to be paid back once they get a job. This is a hindrance to so many bright working class kids, and tuition top-up fees should be scrapped.

 

[Vader]

Anyone who wants to go to Uni in the UK can. I should know, my family is poor as fuck (when my loan came through I became the richest member) and I have a degree. There's a lot of financial support for poor kids- one of my flatmates was a Nigerian immigrant whose parents didn't work, and he could afford it. If anything, it's the lower-middle class kids, who don't qualify for the full financial support from the government but whose parents are not well-off enough to give them much help who are worst off.

Tuition top-up fees still do not represent anything like the full cost of a university education. They are totally necessary, and universities should be free to set whatever rates they like for their courses. Contracts between individuals should be none of the government's business.

 

[Perpetual Indulgence]

I don't think post secondary education is the parents responsibilty. If you can put away some funds for your child, that is a bonus. My parents did the best they could to help me out but I was responsible for most of it. I think they used some retirement funds for my education which makes me sad now. My parents advocated university so I would not get stick in a factory like they did.

I was aware of our financial issues when I started high school so I did my best to get scholarships and achieve good grades. I worked two jobs in the summer to save money for school in the fall. I took out student loans for my master's. I went to university in Canada when tuition was not that high and I lived at home for my undergrad to save expenses.

 

[Basic Base]

Makes me want to re-read Dostoyevsky's "Rebellion"...

 

[moogmania]

Back in Florida, where I did my undergrad, there is a statewide scholarship program that gives every student with a high-school 3.0 GPA and half-way decent SATs 75% of all tuition costs at State schools and 100% tuition plus cost of books/housing to students with a 3.5 gpa and a little more than decent SAT. The funds for this wonderful program, that allowed me to get a Bachelor's in Chemistry from an accredited University for next to nothing come from the FLORIDA STATE LOTTERY. How ridiculous is that? Don't get me wrong-- I am very thankful that I have no student loans to pay off from undergrad (now I'm looking at $200k of loans for med school, however) and I find it kinda poetic that tens of thousands of students are getting a college education paid for by people who either don't know math (or at least basic statistics) or choose to ignore it, but is that the best a society can do in terms of motivation for education? Should we really rely on gambling to give future generations a shot at a decent education? True, many colleges and universities could probably get by without charging so much for a degree, but I don't think our country really appreciates exactly how important education is. It affects every facet of everyone's lives. We should all be contributing and attending college. Imagine how different this country would be if even 50% of the population attended some form of secondary education (I'm not saying everyone needs a Ph.D, but I think even garbage men and janitors would have richer lives with an Associates, or even just a few Gen Ed courses). I'm willing to bet that the benefits afforded by massive increases in productivity will make nation wide college attendance economically feasible. Not to mention that the country, for the first time, will be able to vote on issues they actually understand and not be swayed by ridiculously faulty arguments set forth by deceitful politicians (we might even be able to save billions each year by slashing our military budget after the public finally understands the waste that war brings- but that's just my own leftist-hippie opinion).
"The only good is knowledge, and the only evil is ignorance." --Socrates

 

[MynameisnotDeja]

I pretty much agree with the OP. I don't believe at all that it's the parent's responsibility. I believe it's the parents responsibility to provide basic needs for their children and I don't consider college a basic need, or a need at all. I didn't go to college and have had no problem thus far living a great life. Not that there is anything wrong with going to college if one wants to do so, but I think (just like anything else they want to do, like buying a car, going backpacking in a foreign country) a person should do it themselves, not expect their parents to take care of it for them.

My parents have done more than enough for me, I can't imagine asking for them to pay for me to go to school. They never had a lot of money but they still provided me with everything I needed and also taught me to have the desire to take care of myself, something I see lacking in a lot of kids who were really spoiled. Not saying a kid is automatically spoiled just because their parents pay for college.... but consider the way I've seen some college kids behave (slacking off, drinking, ditching class, etc) it makes me a little sick thinking of how hard their parents might have worked to give them that opportunity.

It's interesting to see this thread here because my boyfriend and I just had a somewhat intense conversation on this very topic the other morning... he feels pretty much the opposite of me, that parents should help in whatever way with college. But he has a masters degree and loved school, and I've despised every single moment I've spent in a classroom in my life, so I guess we both are somewhat biased based on our own life experiences. I don't see my children going to college as some marker of pride or whatever (like some do).

Also, part of my feelings about college is the large number of people I know who either spent a huge sum of money or are still in debt from going to school, and are now working in retail/restaurants/other low paying jobs... it doesn't exactly give me the impression that paying for my kids to go to college will = them having a wonderful, wealthy life.

 

[socko]

My opinion here continues on the same theme in the abortion thread you made in CEP. I realize that my opinion isn't well-tolerated by most.

I think that paying for the child's education is the least a parent can do. In fact, any good that a parent does for their child is in fact owing. I arrive at this conclusion through the following train of thought:

1. Suffering is a fact of life.

2. All things aside, who, theoretically, is the one with any say as to whether or not to bring a new life to the world? It is the parent, not the chid.

3. Therefore, any suffering the child endures throughout its lifetime is ultimately the parents' responsibility, regardless of who did what since the child's entire life and the potential suffering it entailed is a result of the parent's actions.

So the way I see it, a responsible parent goes into the act of reproduction entirely understanding that the result WILL entail suffering and that s/he is therefore responsible for mitigating.

So what's in it for the parent? Well besides sexual pleasure, in a world of suffering, love begets love, and chances are that a loved child will love back and help the parent in times of need when they grow up.

So what it comes down to, will an education make the child's life easier? If so, then the parent should theoretically be responsible for it.

On a whole other level of analysis though, I personally happen to think that education, like healthcare, should be the responsibility of the state through tax money - but that's a whole other thread

I don't know. Maybe I have my head somewhere up in the clouds .

I agree with everything you said here. I want to add that anybody who brings someone into this world has the responsibility of making sure that their child has a level playing field for starting out in life. Give them all they need to be successful, but not so much that they get lazy and complacent. College is one of those things that helps level the field.
As an aside, my brother had college money set aside from when he was 5 or so. But my father, being the chronically unemployed asshole alcoholic that he was, drank all that money, so, by the time my brother got into college, the money he thought would be there for college was gone. He had to get loans and financial aid.
Being somewhat aware of what was going on, I studied hard and got a scholarship for undergrad.

 

[Perpetual Indulgence]

I believe it's the parents responsibility to provide basic needs for their children and I don't consider college a basic need

I agree. I don't think parents should be expected to be responsible for wedding costs either. That is a gift just like helping with education costs.

The majority of college educated people I know are working in their field of choice or at least in a position that pays a lot more than minimum wage/tips. Most of those had/have student loans.

Life is debt. Take on what you can handle. Live and learn. Welcome to being an adult.