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who is cheating?

I think what you are doing is, um, questionable. But it's not cheating. You have no obligation to honor a vow you never took, or otherwise to respect the terms of a contract you are not party to.

In the same way it might be questionable for Russia to sell heavy weapons to Syria, knowing that Syria is using them against civilians, it is still not the case that Russia is committing atrocities by doing so. It would be admirable if they could put their own self interests of financial gain second to helping prevent these atrocities, but they are not obligated to do so. Similarly, you are not responsible to withhold the means of his cheating from him. It rests solely on him to not do it, or to take the responsibility for having done it.
 
Rangrz, it must be the scientist in you or whatever it is you do. You always have a reasonable analogy for just about everything. I don't feel so much like a dirtbag and I'm not the OP. But been in this situation and the guilt is weighing on me. Do you think maybe it's my Catholic upbringing? Go ahead, laugh I won't be offended.
 
I think what you are doing is, um, questionable. But it's not cheating. You have no obligation to honor a vow you never took, or otherwise to respect the terms of a contract you are not party to.

In the same way it might be questionable for Russia to sell heavy weapons to Syria, knowing that Syria is using them against civilians, it is still not the case that Russia is committing atrocities by doing so. It would be admirable if they could put their own self interests of financial gain second to helping prevent these atrocities, but they are not obligated to do so. Similarly, you are not responsible to withhold the means of his cheating from him. It rests solely on him to not do it, or to take the responsibility for having done it.

this i agree with- rangerz your logic is often very entertaining and convincing (at least to me)

there was another thread recently about a guy with kids who was looking for the justification to cheat again and he got a lot of stick for it.

neither of these situations will end well but being the other woman is not as bad as being the cheater even though from a moral point of view its not good.

i would suggest to end this as it wont go anywhere/achieve much
 
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I think what you are doing is, um, questionable. But it's not cheating. You have no obligation to honor a vow you never took, or otherwise to respect the terms of a contract you are not party to.

In the same way it might be questionable for Russia to sell heavy weapons to Syria, knowing that Syria is using them against civilians, it is still not the case that Russia is committing atrocities by doing so. It would be admirable if they could put their own self interests of financial gain second to helping prevent these atrocities, but they are not obligated to do so. Similarly, you are not responsible to withhold the means of his cheating from him. It rests solely on him to not do it, or to take the responsibility for having done it.

Very good comparison :P
 
You thought you were in great relationships before, and your husband cheated on you, right? You thought you were doing everything right? Well sometimes people are just jerks, and they cheat anyway. The wife probably doesn't feel like anything is wrong in the relationship. She's probably perfectly happy in her relationship and thinks he is too. Just like your marriages. But he's off having sex with someone else. If that someone else is aware of what's going on, what they are doing is just as bad as cheating. Thus why I would label both parties as a cheater.

Of course, if the "other woman" doesn't realize the guy is married, I don't think that makes her a cheater. Unless she finds out and keeps having sex with him.

Although this may not be the best comparison, this is what I could think of:
So I'm a vegetarian. I don't eat any animals because of moral reasons. I think it is wrong and cruel for animals to be killed just for people to eat. If I hunted animals, if I bought meat, or if I cooked meat (for someone else), should I still be considered a vegetarian? I don't think so, because I'm still participating in the industry. I may not be actually eating the meat, but I still don't think I could be considered a vegetarian if I did those things.
 
i'd still consider you a vegetarian as long as you were not eating the meat. yes its a bit weird and questionable with regards to your values but by definition its about what you eat/consume
 
Further, not participating in the meat industry is something you resolved to yourself. If you did so, you'd be breaking a promise (to yourself). However, if you never claimed to be vegetarian (i.e. you never promised his wife that you'd be faithful to her) you would not be breaking any promise or contradicting anything you said.

Say a store enters into a contract with a manufacturer not to sell any clothing except the brand marketed by that manufacturer.(So, not to have sex with anyone except ones S/O) Those two parties made an agreement, yes? Now say that the store decides to start selling some other stuff on the down low anyways, and I go in there and buy it. (So, I sleep someones S/O) Did I, in any meaningful sense, breach a contract? (That is, did I cheat?) Would you see it as just to consider me an unsavory business partner? Should Nike be able to seek damages against me in court because I bought a pair of Adidas in Joe's Fitness Store when they had an exclusive contract?

I think notion is absurd, it binds 3rd parties to contracts to which they did not enter consensually and possibly are not aware of.
 
I get that some people don't think that knowingly being the "other woman" or the "other man" is considered cheating. I still do. But I think many, if not all, agree that it is still wrong.
 
i'd still consider you a vegetarian as long as you were not eating the meat. yes its a bit weird and questionable with regards to your values but by definition its about what you eat/consume

Agreed. Maybe you're a vegetarian because it promotes better cardiovascular health and it has nothing to do with compassion for animals. There'd be no reason why you couldn't prepare animal-based dishes for others then. You're still a vegetarian based on personal reasons
 
Further, not participating in the meat industry is something you resolved to yourself. If you did so, you'd be breaking a promise (to yourself). However, if you never claimed to be vegetarian (i.e. you never promised his wife that you'd be faithful to her) you would not be breaking any promise or contradicting anything you said.

Say a store enters into a contract with a manufacturer not to sell any clothing except the brand marketed by that manufacturer.(So, not to have sex with anyone except ones S/O) Those two parties made an agreement, yes? Now say that the store decides to start selling some other stuff on the down low anyways, and I go in there and buy it. (So, I sleep someones S/O) Did I, in any meaningful sense, breach a contract? (That is, did I cheat?) Would you see it as just to consider me an unsavory business partner? Should Nike be able to seek damages against me in court because I bought a pair of Adidas in Joe's Fitness Store when they had an exclusive contract?

I think notion is absurd, it binds 3rd parties to contracts to which they did not enter consensually and possibly are not aware of.

Honestly, dude, this is an absurd comparison lol.

Nobody is getting physically or emotionally hurt in the situation you provided. Not to mention, she is knowingly doing this; you were not in your situation. Yours, like you stated, just involves unsavory business deals, while hers involves fucking up peoples' lives. I don't think anybody is concerned about some silly make-belief contract. The issue is that she is knowingly being a participant in hurting someone else, and possibly others (kids).

In your eyes, it's okay to be responsible for fucking up other peoples' lifes and doing harm to them as long as you haven't binded yourself to some contract that says you won't do so? lol

The only thing you need to consider to not go down this route is that it affects another person negatively in a serious way. No amount of nonsensical semantics or intellectual gymnastics are going to make that right. The answer here is very simple and practical.
 
from being a person whos been cheated on i consider u just as bad.

if he's aware of the situation, especially if we've met (whether we're friends or not) that is just unacceptable. im not a violent person but ive been known to square off with scum like that, and if i havent that just means i havent found u yet. however if the guy is completely unaware that my girl is with me bc she didnt tell him or w.e then he gets a pass

but to me the only time that shits acceptable is if the significant other is cheating as well or theyre abusive. other than that absolutley not. girls who were drop dead gorgeous that i were totally into have wanted to hook up and ive turned every one down whose already in a relationship. i dont need pussy that bad and thats just fucked up
 
your not a cheater, but you are contributing to someone being cheated on. Anyone who knowingly participates in an affair/in having sex with someone cheating on their so is not someone i'd want to be friends with. It shows low character, and is imo despicable. Just think of who all you are effecting by participating in the cheating. The other individual in the relationship with the cheater is being hurt by the actions you choose to take. Sure you may not know them, but that doesn't mean its ok to hurt them. If you've ever been cheated on you'd know how much it hurts for it to happen. Why would you willing help hurt someone in that way. It may not be a physical hurt, but mentally hurting someone can be just as bad if not worse (depending on the situations).

Imo if you have any decency in you, and actually care about the world around you, you will not engage in sexual activity with that man. Tell him that its despicable for him to be asking you to help cheat on his wife. If he wants to have sex with other women, he needs to either talk to his wife about whether she'd allow him to do it, or get a divorce.

^^^^^^^^ this!
 
I am not in a relationship, however I have a sex buddy who is married. I understand that he is cheating on his wife with me, but I was recently told that I am cheating too. Although I am involved in an affair, Wouldn't say I am cheating because I have no one to cheat on. I understand what I am doing is wrong, but my question is.....do others think of me as a cheater?

Hmmm...no, I wouldn't think of you as a cheater. You're not the married one, after all.

Anyway, just enjoy the sex and stop caring about what others think.
 
Not a cheater, just a selfish person.

this.

if you are clearly aware of the union shared between your "fuck buddy" and his wife; and that there are children involved also who will be affected by the outcome if all comes to light, i wouldnt label you a cheater per se, but would certainly question your personal morals as a person; and hope that at some point you would consider the outcome in the situation you are in; and honestly question if you are prepared to accept accountability for the role you played in causing further damage to an already broken family.

...kytnism...:|
 
I am not in a relationship, however I have a sex buddy who is married. I understand that he is cheating on his wife with me, but I was recently told that I am cheating too. Although I am involved in an affair, Wouldn't say I am cheating because I have no one to cheat on. I understand what I am doing is wrong, but my question is.....do others think of me as a cheater?

Question is completely daft. I feel you are more keen draw attention to the fact that you are engaging in sexual immorality.

It's easy to slate you for it, but I'm not judging you, or saying that you're a bad person...because you can plainly see that it's wrong just as easily as the rest of us.

The question we all want to know is why are you aiding a cheater when you know it is wrong? Especially as you say in other posts that you've been hurt by cheating husbands yourself before.

Are you after attention? Are you just being careless? Or is there a bigger problem, where you are feeling low from your previous cheating husbands and feel you need to do the same to disguise the hurt? Please respond
 
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Agreed. Maybe you're a vegetarian because it promotes better cardiovascular health and it has nothing to do with compassion for animals. There'd be no reason why you couldn't prepare animal-based dishes for others then. You're still a vegetarian based on personal reasons

So I'm a vegetarian. I don't eat any animals because of moral reasons. I think it is wrong and cruel for animals to be killed just for people to eat.

^^ I clearly stated that the reason for me not eating animals because of moral reasons.
If someone was a vegetarian for health reasons, then there isn't a comparison in this sense.
 
Well, none of this was planned. He contacted me and it went from there. At first harmless flirting...but in many ways you are right. I am being careless and I do feel pretty low from my cheating husbands. I guess my idea was that fuck buddies was the way to go because no feelings are involved, no relationship expected. I am confused to say the least...not sure if I believe in love anymore and quite honestly believe that love isn't meant to last forever. But, I am a very loving and caring person, so trying to keep feelings out of it has become next to impossible. So for all to know, I have told him that this can not continue, his wife will never know, and this time I was the cause of my own pain. I should have known better and that this would not end well, sex has always meant something special to me....so it was just a matter of time before I was the one to catch feelings.
 
Honestly, dude, this is an absurd comparison lol.

Nobody is getting physically or emotionally hurt in the situation you provided. Not to mention, she is knowingly doing this; you were not in your situation. Yours, like you stated, just involves unsavory business deals, while hers involves fucking up peoples' lives. I don't think anybody is concerned about some silly make-belief contract. The issue is that she is knowingly being a participant in hurting someone else, and possibly others (kids).

In your eyes, it's okay to be responsible for fucking up other peoples' lifes and doing harm to them as long as you haven't binded yourself to some contract that says you won't do so? lol

The only thing you need to consider to not go down this route is that it affects another person negatively in a serious way. No amount of nonsensical semantics or intellectual gymnastics are going to make that right. The answer here is very simple and practical.

Someone was financially harmed in my example. It's still a harm.

Is it okay to fuck up peoples lives if one did not sign a contract/make an agreement not to do some act? Depends on the intrinsic harm of the act itself. Stabbing someone or stealing their car is intrinsically harmful by the nature of the act itself. Having consensual sex with someone is not. If the other person is neglecting a promise they made, the blood is on their hands alone.

That you find my argument to be "nonsensical semantics" (in fact, my argument is syntactic, not semantic) and that you think simple abstraction of the idea to a generalized version of a contract to be "intellectual gymnastics" is comical and presents and image of you that suggests you have very little background in basic rigor, logic, or formal methods.
 
^^ I clearly stated that the reason for me not eating animals because of moral reasons.
If someone was a vegetarian for health reasons, then there isn't a comparison in this sense.

My bad. I actually must not have read your post properly. I didn't think you were a vegetarian, I thought you were just providing a hypothetical situation
 
So I'm a vegetarian. I don't eat any animals because of moral reasons. I think it is wrong and cruel for animals to be killed just for people to eat. If I hunted animals, if I bought meat, or if I cooked meat (for someone else), should I still be considered a vegetarian? I don't think so, because I'm still participating in the industry. I may not be actually eating the meat, but I still don't think I could be considered a vegetarian if I did those things.

So you're a vegetarian. That probably means that you eat some form(s) of dairy. Milk (the liquid that comes from a cow which feeds her young), cheese (often comes from milk, which comes from a cow), eggs (the ovum of many animals...what do you think a woman's eggs would taste like? nomnomnom)...Do you chew gum? Eat candy? Although there may not be meaty flesh or a bone in a stick of gum, there are animal derivitive products in most gums. Do you use eyeshadow? Did you know that eyeshadow is usually made from fish scales? Do you use conditioner? Most conditioner is made from animal fat. Do you use any Gillette products? Did you know that to test their products, they rub the product in the eyes of rabbits to see the results? Ever ridden in a car with leather seats? Owned any leather, suede, cashmere, silk, angora, down [comforter, jacket, pillow], pearls? No? So you wear all cotton - did you know that conventionally grown cotton is the crop that uses the most heavy applications of pesticides of any crop worldwide? But it's okay because instead of killing cows and sheep you're just killing a shitload of bugs...Oh, is your place of residence painted? Most paints use tallow, a fatty animal acid. Do you drive a car or vehicle of any type? A car needs oil to run, and guess what's in oil...glycerin...which is in damn near everything, including toothpaste, lotions, most household cleaners, and in most types of "XR" (extended release) types of medications. Do you eat anything with sugar? Sugar is usually run over animal bones...
Therefore, if you participate in any of the above (a highly limited list, I may add) in your eyes, you would not be considered a vegetarian.
Trying to avoid eating, consuming, using, and or being around animal products is virtually IMPOSSIBLE.
So you see eating, consuming, using an animal product as bad? Well, you're probably guilty, or "bad", or you're "cheating on your vegan/vegetarian friends" or cheating on your oath to yourself and all the cute cuddly animals of the world when you use an animal product...right?

where am I going with this you ask?

Humans were not meant to be a monogamous bunch. In fact, we are programmed to be the exact opposite of monogamous. Adultery has been documented in every human culture studied.
If monogamy is such a natural state, a "good thing..." why are so many people driven to cheat? There's a huge problem when an expectation of absolute fidelity is placed on marriage. There's a lot of [unnecessary] suffering between couples who have unnecessary expectations of what life is going to be like once their married. Does the wife hope and assume that her husband is automatically no longer going to be attracted to other women? Will he never look at another woman's ass again as she walks by? Do his animalistic instincts (the instinct that men are born with to spread their seed and reproduce to help their genes carry on in this world) just go away?

Although long-term bonding may come naturally to our species, that doesn't eliminate the desire for variety. One can still maintain a long term bond with somebody and still be able to have sex with other people. Couples are led to believe that waning sexual passion in enduring marriages or sexual interest in anyone but their partner shows a failed relationship, when in reality these things often signify nothing more than the fact that we are Homo sapiens. Monogamy is NOT NATURAL for human beings. Humans are arguably the most sexual species on earth. Our bodies, minds and sexual habits all reflect a highly sexual primate. Research from primatology, anthropology, anatomy and psychology points to the same conclusion: A nonpossessive, gregarious sexuality was the human norm until the rise of agriculture and private property just 10,000 years ago, about 5 percent of anatomically modern humans' existence on Earth.

The human body tells the same story. Men's testicles are far larger than those of any monogamous or polygynous primate, hanging vulnerably outside the body where cooler temperatures help preserve standby sperm cells for multiple ejaculations. Men sport the longest, thickest primate penis, as well as an embarrassing tendency to reach orgasm when the woman is just getting warmed up. These are all strong indications of so-called sperm competition in our species' past.
Women's breasts, which are instinctually desired by men because of their size (the bigger the breasts, the more she can feed our offspring), woman's hips (bigger hips, easier for breeding and birthing) impossible-to-ignore cries of sexual delight, or "female copulatory vocalization", and capacity for multiple orgasms also validate prehistoric promiscuity.

But we're not apes, you may say...but we are, in fact. Homo sapiens is one of four African great apes, along with chimps, bonobos and gorillas.

But we have the power to choose how to live!...you may say...This is true. Just as we can choose to be vegans/vegetarians, we can decide to lead sexually monogamous lives. But folks, remember...just because you've chosen to refrain from eating meat, it's utterly natural to yearn for an occasional bacon cheeseburger.
 
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