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Who else here thinks Alcohol SUCKS

bowdenta said:
i find it strange that alcohol makes some people depressed or violent. This behavior is uncommon and laregly due to the original mind state of the consumer. thats like saying acid sucks because it always makes people freak out
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Do you live on the planet Earth? Scientist have long recognized a two-way association between alcohol consumption and violent or aggressive behavior.

Based on a published study*, it was summarized that the percentages of violent offenders who were drinking at the time of their offense as follows: up to 86% of homicide offenders, 37% of assault offenders, and 60% of sexual offenders.

*Roizen, J. Epidemiological issues in alcohol-related violence. In: Galanter, M., ed. Recent Developments in Alcoholism. Vol. 13. New York: Plenum Press, 1997,pp. 7-40.
 
I think Bowdenta's point (not that it's uncommon, but that it has a lot to do with the original mind state or personality of the drinker) still stands though. Just because the two correlate doesn't mean alcohol makes people violent - it may be that already violent people simply handle their alcohol worse. Alcohol lowers your inhibitions, and someone that ordinarily can't control their anger is going to be more likely to act on that when pissed. But I still think that's more a reflection on the person than on the drug.

It'd be interesting to see how many people in that study were repeat offenders, and had committed other crimes whilst not under the influence.
 
^Lab research has shown that similar neuropharmacological mechanisms underlie both some of the effects of alcohol as well as some components of violent behavior.

Alcohol affects the psychomotor and pain systems, as well as cognitive and limbic functions, such as anxiety, fear and aggression. Three major neurochemical systems are involved - the GABAergic, dopaminergic and serotonergic neurotransmitter systems.

Of these, particularly the serotonergic and dopaminergic systems have been identified as the primary mechanisms underlying aggressive and violent behavior.
 
^ I agree that alcohol certainly results in more violence and aggression than other drugs, but I still believe there needs to be some underlying propensity for aggression in the person themselves for alcohol to bring out criminally violent behaviour.

Millions of people drink, but only some react in this way - even at very high doses. Aggression is a fairly complex behaviour, and although research has consistently identified a neurobiological basis for it, there are many contributing factors other than just neurochemical systems or the functions of the amygdala. I'm not saying they don't play a crucial role, but a person's behaviour in everyday life can't be reduced purely to neurochemistry.
 
^

You seem to be unwilling to accept a direct relationship between violence and alcohol consumption, but would you at the very least admit there's a correlation between the two? Let's not turn this into a debate of semantics...
 
alcohol is the worst drug and i cant believe its dam legal... all those dumbass hypocrites who drink alcohol aka the norm of society and debunk all other drug use... absoluetly pathetic... not to mention it does way more damage than most drugs...... society makes me sick..

what does more physhical damage alcohol or heroin... id say the majority of drug educated society would say heroin
 
What the fuck paradoxcycle, like I said the alchohol lymbic sweet spot must be found. bowdenta is right on, it takes much experimentation, but when the sweet spot is fully unvailed, so much retainable knowledge can be gained from upper-moderate intake without the risk of heavy life-destroying addiction(heroin)

The intoxication from heroin and properly imbibed alchohol is almost identical. In fact, being a post heroin addict I can say that alchohol intoxication is a much "smarter" high then smack. Although the euphoric index may be slightly higher from skag, the intellectual index is higher from alchohol intoxication.

So choose your pistol...
 
You seem to be unwilling to accept a direct relationship between violence and alcohol consumption, but would you at the very least admit there's a correlation between the two?
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Not really......I already agreed that there is a correlation between alcohol and violence. My point was more that it's got a lot to do with the person themselves. I probably should have been a little clearer anyway - my statement was really relating to people who repeatedly get violent when they drink.

I'm not disagreeing with anything paradoxcycle said either, I just wanted to point out that it's not always the alcohol in and of itself that's going to produce this reaction in people. And the only reason I did so was because there seems to be a number of people in this thread that are convinced alcohol is the devil simply because they don't know how to drink in moderation.

I'm not claiming alcohol is harmless. I'm not claiming it doesn't make some people violent. But drinking until you pass out and puke on yourself doesn't mean alcohol is an evil drug - it just means you're drinking too much. Personally, I get paranoid when I smoke too much weed, but that doesn't mean I'm going to get on my soapbox and rabbit on about the dangers of marijuana simply because I'm overdoing it. Alcohol - like most other drugs - is fine in moderation. And while I think this is stating the obvious to a degree, it's clear that some people don't understand the difference between drinking and giving yourself alcohol poisoning.

I guess what bothers me about this is that having such a one-sided view of alcohol doesn't necessarily result in people being more cautious with their drinking. Instead, they seem to use it as an excuse to get dangerously drunk then absolve themselves of all responsibility because "alcohol is a poison." In short, it's the alcohol's fault for making them feel like crap, not their fault for drinking too much. And I'm not really aiming that comment at anyone in particular, it's just what I've observed over 6 years of alcohol-fueled uni parties :)
 
lee harvey said:
The intoxication from heroin and properly imbibed alchohol is almost identical. In fact, being a post heroin addict I can say that alchohol intoxication is a much "smarter" high then smack. Although the euphoric index may be slightly higher from skag, the intellectual index is higher from alchohol intoxication.
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I believe there is an inverse relationship between heroin addicts and alcohol use but the rest of your statement is BS, not to mention completely irrelevant to my first argument. To be honest, the only reason I think you THINK it's a "smarter" high is because you're off the junk now.

chity said:
I guess what bothers me about this is that having such a one-sided view of alcohol doesn't necessarily result in people being more cautious with their drinking. Instead, they seem to use it as an excuse to get dangerously drunk then absolve themselves of all responsibility because "alcohol is a poison."
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Excellent point, I agree.
 
http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/alcohol.html

It's safe to say that alcohol is both a tonic and a poison. The difference lies mostly in the dose. Moderate drinking seems to be good for the heart and circulatory system, and probably protects against type 2 diabetes and gallstones. Heavy drinking is a major cause of preventable death in most countries. In the U.S., alcohol is implicated in about half of fatal traffic accidents.(1) Heavy drinking can damage the liver and heart, harm an unborn child, increase the chances of developing breast and some other cancers, contribute to depression and violence, and interfere with relationships.
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And there is more reading on that link, including references to scientific studies, if you are interested.
 
gloggawogga, I'm not going to get into another cyclical debate with you like happened previously in the cannabis "discussion" so this will be it from me.

It's well known that ethanol is highly toxic, in neurons as well as in non-neuronal cell types. As many as 10% of chronic alcoholics develop cognitive and neurodegenerative disorders. In addition to the neurodegenerative effects of chronic ethanol abuse, acute ethanol exposure is known to be neurotoxic.

Two days of acute ethanol exposure is sufficient to cause olfactory receptor neuron (ORN) cell death in rats, followed by retrograde degeneration of regions of the hippocampus involved in olfactory memory.

Here's some related reading:
http://www.uclm.es/inabis2000/posters/files/019/
 
Alcohol is a horrible drug. Does anyone here actually thing the high from alcohol is enjoyable? I think the reason it is abused is because it makes you not care about your problems, it lowers inhibitions and allow you to be more social, and it is legal.
 
Albert Walker said:
Alcohol is a horrible drug. Does anyone here actually thing the high from alcohol is enjoyable? I think the reason it is abused is because it makes you not care about your problems, it lowers inhibitions and allow you to be more social, and it is legal.
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alcohol seems to be the drug of choice for a certain type of people. I dunno, all the people at bars/clubs on the weekend just seem to be the type of person I wouldn't like anyway. Alcohol is a real narrow kinda high, you only see yourself being fucked up and getting lowered down to primal desire get fucked kinda shit. People who are "weekend drunks", just seem to have equally narrowminded world views. I'm talking mostly about the people who ONLY drink and would NEVER consider doign any "illegal" drugs. These people think it's the best fuckign thing in the world, but it's really one of the shittest highs around that really does nothing positive.

this really doesn't make sense, but fuck it oh well.

I like to drink everyonce in a while, but i don't like to overdo it anymore. There are way better highs to overdo, getting too drunk just makes me act stupid, say stupid shit, spend all my money, smoke all my weed and wake up feeling shitty the next day.
 
gloggawogga, I'm not going to get into another cyclical debate with you like happened previously in the cannabis "discussion" so this will be it from me.
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If you don't like being corrected when you are wrong don't post things that are wrong. Its that simple, paradox.

It's well known that ethanol is highly toxic
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It is well known that the effects of and toxicity of any drug depends on the dosage. The link that I gave above, from Harvard Universty, had references to scientific studies that show that moderate drinking, 2 or less drinks per day, can have certain health benefits for certain people. Now do you know more than these scientists? Why don't you look at the studies and tell me what is wrong with them?

Here's some related reading:
http://www.uclm.es/inabis2000/posters/files/019/
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Thats a study of high concentrations of alcohol on rat nuerons in a petri dish, which has no relevance to effect of alcohol in low doses (1 or 2 drinks) in human being.
 
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gloggawogga said:
If you don't like being corrected when you are wrong don't post things that are wrong. Its that simple, paradox..
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Which part of my post was incorrect?
I don't disagree regarding alcohol in moderation but I felt it was necessary to point out that it is indeed neurotoxic.
 
As a spectator, I always enjoy seeing the two of you get into it - because despite the acrimony the sense of competition means it usually ends up with a bunch of ridiculously well referenced posts on both sides that are frankly a pleasure to read =D

--- G.
 
LOL, I remember in the cannabis thread you made a comment like someone saying "Your mother's a whore" with a bunch of journal references to back it up. It was funny as hell!
Seriously though, I suppose I get heated in threads like these and I feel guilty after the fact b/c I get the impression glogga wants to strangle me.
:)
 
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