Lysergamides White fluff LSD vs Needlepoint LSD

[roi]

Maybe the blotters are not laid even? One might have 50ug, the next one 100ug.

 

[Montana Industries]

Three Blotter going to Energycontroll and all had between 97µg and 106µg, the bodyload during the trip was right to the dose and the sweating was very extremly two.
This was the main effect on starting with 2 Blotter and after one and a half later no much more effects :s

Thx

 

[ecstacylover]

Body load and other subjective observations can have a lot of variance even with the same dose of the same substance on different occasions.

Have you considered it being a tolerance issue?

 

[mr.buffnstuff]

A very good friend of mine recently made 7mg of LSD where he works from cafetgot tablets.
He is VERY knowledgable and like most people here have said, LSD is LSD. He said there will be several side reactions along the way though through poor practice which will leave contaminants many of which even at the doses they are in will give body load etc THIS IS HIS THEORY BASED UPON HIS EXPERIENCE IN HIS FIELD

As he said the term coined 'needlepoint' will come from high purity LSD which is able to form into crystal. Lower quality (more impurities) won't form crystals

 

[Ismene]

^^

Was that the alaskan thunderfuck batch?

 

[Boognish]

Damn! That seems like a lot of work to make only 7mg's! If I had the skills to do that I wouldn't risk a manufacturing charge for 70 doses lol!

 

[mr.buffnstuff]

Damn! That seems like a lot of work to make only 7mg's! If I had the skills to do that I wouldn't risk a manufacturing charge for 70 doses lol!

He didn't do it to sell or anything, he said it's like a rights of passage as an organic chemist!
It's a real passion of his, he has made MDMA from black pepper before and also made a batch of ultra high purity 4-MMC. Just because he likes the challenge!

It wasn't quite as good as dat der 'Alaskan thunderfuck LSD' but nearly ?

 

[quasi-degenerate]

LSA, 1-Methyl-LSD, and 1-Acetyl-LSD, tolerance, set and setting- all factors

Body load and other subjective observations can have a lot of variance even with the same dose of the same substance on different occasions.

Have you considered it being a tolerance issue?

Earlier in this thread LSA, 1-Methyl-LSD, and 1-Acetyl-LSD were mentioned. I wanted to mention them again, because people seem to have forgotten. LSA, also-known-as d-lysergic acid amide OR d-lysergamide OR "ergine", - this chemical and its ipimer (isoergine) are naturally occurring in baby Hawaiian woodrose, some strains of morning glories, etc. Some people may be selling LSA as LSD because it has a similar high; it is just 10x less potent. And the chemicals iso-LSD and lumi-LSD which are breakdown products of LSD might contribute to the body loading on some trips, particularly via a hypothetical synergistic effect. And we all know LSD is a super fragile molecule; when exposed to heat, sunlight, oxidation, etc. - it breaks down rapidly. I used to think LSA was a breakdown structure and blamed it for my body load; I was half-right- it was probably a breakdown product, but LSA isn't a known breakdown product.

Its possible that poorly synthesized LSD might have other ergot derivatives in it, which might contribute to the harsh body load that some get on taking LSD. Also, the very close chemical relatives 1-Methyl-LSD and 1-Acetyl-LSD (which break down into LSD in aqueous solution) might be present in some street samples and might contribute to the harsh body load. (Petter Stafford has claimed in his _Psychedelics Encyclopedia_ that 1-Acetyl-LSD is supposedly "smoother" than d-LSD -- thus "strychnine laced acid" may acutally be pure d-LSD, while "pure lsd" may be 1-Acetyl-LSD or some substitute).

So there you have it.. chemical relatives of LSD may be the reason for different effects on your trips. Tolerance, as mentioned by MDMAlover above, is also a major factor. However, set and setting still play the dominant role- as any decent trip guide should be able to tell you.

Cheers folks!

 

[sean107]

I always wondered if the whole argument on LSD purity just came down to the ratio of iso-LSD to LSD-25... Seems to me like that would make sense. Kinda like methamphetamine purity can deal with D/L isomer ratios.

 

[Madhatter3366]

White fluff vs Needlepoint ~@~
wont to hear the true..
who is beeter and whay ??
for sure iknow the answer,just would like to hear some opinion's about..

White fluff is a form of needel point first they make fluff which is a blue crystal and when its first made there are a bunch of white flakes stuck to it that can not connect because they are so charged with positive energy and then they have are a special type of needel which they use to harvest only the white parts thus the term needel point it's made by the BIL!

 

[The Shadow Self]

"Needlepoint", as a descriptor, is simply a way of describing the final, end-product of LSD production, and has nothing to do with the use of a "needle" in any way. That's an urban myth which simply won't go away. Same thing with fluff; it's a descriptor related to the look of the xtal at the end of production, cleaning, etc. So even if you look at some pictures of so-called "needlepoint" LSD, you'll see that many of the xtals are long and pointy, and resemble tiny, broken needles. There is little difference, generally, other than a few of % purity, between fluff and needlepoint, with it being roughly 99% pure. Other than that, if you did a double blind test, and were able to measure EXACT doses of the two different LSD xtals, they'd be difficult to tell apart subjectively. Both are capable of wonderful things.

 

[hank.]

"Needlepoint", as a descriptor, is simply a way of describing the final, end-product of LSD production, and has nothing to do with the use of a "needle" in any way. That's an urban myth which simply won't go away. Same thing with fluff; it's a descriptor related to the look of the xtal at the end of production, cleaning, etc. So even if you look at some pictures of so-called "needlepoint" LSD, you'll see that many of the xtals are long and pointy, and resemble tiny, broken needles. There is little difference, generally, other than a few of % purity, between fluff and needlepoint, with it being roughly 99% pure. Other than that, if you did a double blind test, and were able to measure EXACT doses of the two different LSD xtals, they'd be difficult to tell apart subjectively. Both are capable of wonderful things.

My opinion on these descriptions is they are basically nonsense but I think they actually describe the visual appearance of the d-LSD at hand.. Therefore: "White Fluff" could mean white fluffy powder and "Needlepoint" could describe the visual appearance of actual d-LSD crystals which do indeed look needle-like (at least the ones I have seen.. of course only on pictures ) In this case "Needlepoint" would describe the highest purity as you need really pure d-LSD to get it to crystallize.. Please take this with a grain of salt I am neither a chemist nor a Californian LSD-mafia member

 

[Psychedelic_Love]

I have always known names like Needlepoint, Whitefluff, and Amber. Refer to the purity of the cid

 

[Solipsis]

iso-LSD or lumi-LSD are inactive, so while purity may reflect that those are among what make up the impurities, they shouldn't matter significantly and only the sheer potency, total amount LSD present should matter. Only thing I can imagine is if things like iso or lumi-LSD bind to serotonin receptors without activating them, they would be basically acting as very weak competitive inhibitors. I do have similar suspicions about secondary alkaloids in mushrooms. Not something that should lead to side effects though.

Synergistic effect? Meh I have thought that for a while as well, but it is not consistent that lumi and iso aren't active or nasty by themselves, up to 1 mg I believe, and the typical LSD dose is much lower so you can imagine how low the amounts of lumi and iso are. It's possible it takes two for that tango, but unlikely.

Anyway the strongest argument I know for putting this all to bed for the time being is that apparently analyzed pure Sandoz LSD can produce rough trips including bodily. If that can happen, it seems to tell us that LSD can just do this so that we don't require unlikely scenarios anymore. Chaotic unpredictability together with annoyingly persistent suggestibility in people (especially trippers) makes for all kinds of beliefs about these matters. Yet at the same time, there is no good evidence to say anything conclusive and satisfying, despite smart people having come up with interesting rationales. The Dirty Acid thread/faq eventually gave me nightmares so to speak, maybe read it and see if you are ready to just let it be until there is one day more conclusive evidence. But yeah, without answers this topic gets old, trust me. No offense.

I personally recommend being enthousiastic about LSD in general, but being skeptical about vague subculture ideas. IMO it feels better to make yourself impervious to what is usually marketing and just stick to things like reagents, titration, independent reports on potency range and just drop the acid and forget about the rest. Even if there are things like fluff or needlepoint, labels can just change along the distribution chain. If you can get crystals that look like needles, appreciate that as it is. Or if you hear mythical stories that appeal to the imagination that are even after decades fraught with dissension, just take them only as myth.

If you know better than me because you hang with "family", congratulations, please use all that acid and the money made with it for some proper double blind underground testing so that you can come up with something incontrivertible, otherwise know that it's hard to differentiate what you may claim from the unfounded beliefs of any fool, again no offense.

@ the post above mine: see the one above yours: purity and crystallization are related.

side reactions along the way

Sure, but which reactions exactly, more info is needed to say how it is relevant to typical LSD?

 

[Toltec]

Perfect...
"Annoyingly persistent suggestibility in people (especially trippers) makes for all kinds of beliefs about these matters".

 

[ThePaleBuffalo78]

LSD is an arrangement of atoms in a set structure. A molecule can either be LSD or not LSD. You can't have different "kinds". People seem to have this bizarre idea that chemists come up with something that's "almost LSD". Chemistry doesn't work like that - it's either LSD or it ain't LSD. You can have either a bigger dose or a smaller dose. That's about it. It doesn't matter a toss whether you dissolve it on a thousand blotters or drink it straight from the bottle as long as you're getting the same amount of LSD it's going to be the same - the only difference will be placebo.

And don't underestimate placebo btw, if I gave someone a blotter and said "This is pure sandoz baby" they'd probably have a great trip. If I gave them the same blotter saying "This is real dirty, the chemist kept it down the crack of his arse for 6 months and never washed once" they'd probably think it was "dirty".

You are completely right about it is acid or it isn't. Right now people are trying to pass RC'S as dose and people who don't know the difference think just because you feel like your tripping then it is acid. It's th e same thing people have done with molly, people are eating actual flea killer and other crap and say it's molly because they feel like they are rolling. The problem is that people are in general are stupid and believe some Stanger they meet in a parking lot, rave, or anywhere else they get sold NOT - MDMA OR NOT-LSD. The only way to make sure you get the real thing is to know the persons making it, make it yourself, or just get a Marquis Reagent to see what you really have. By the way "wash"(in reference to the lsd statement) is when you have a freshly emptied vial which you spit into and squirting back onto your tongue. I know this because I lived it touring and having a good time in life.

 

[ThePaleBuffalo78]

I could give a fuck....Whatever you think is true, is true for you....Especially when it comes to psychedelics, I'd like to tell people how it was, but everyone seems to know everything...typical adolescent bullshit

All I have to say is a quote from The Wire "Are you taking notes on a motherfucking criminal conspiracy"
The DEA can and has used Web sites like this in prosecution of drug dealers and users, so I know I never did anything wrong I just had my best friend teach me all about the Dead, Rainbow Gathering, and the DOSE game. If I were y'all I did try and not talk about things that can be brought back on you to this day, the DEA and the govt are evil and will throw you under the jail if they want to even if it was twenty years ago, they have authority (unconstitutional as it maybe) to bring up actions from your past and prosecute you even after statues of limitations has run out.
Thanks for the Patriot Act, it has really helped to stomp out terrorism here in the US.

 

[PriestTheyCalledHim]

You are completely right about it is acid or it isn't. Right now people are trying to pass RC'S as dose and people who don't know the difference think just because you feel like your tripping then it is acid. It's th e same thing people have done with molly, people are eating actual flea killer and other crap and say it's molly because they feel like they are rolling. The problem is that people are in general are stupid and believe some Stanger they meet in a parking lot, rave, or anywhere else they get sold NOT - MDMA OR NOT-LSD. The only way to make sure you get the real thing is to know the persons making it, make it yourself, or just get a Marquis Reagent to see what you really have. By the way "wash"(in reference to the lsd statement) is when you have a freshly emptied vial which you spit into and squirting back onto your tongue. I know this because I lived it touring and having a good time in life.

Exactly. It's either LSD or a research chemical.

The supposed different types of LSD are really just brands/marketing and in reality it's all the same drug. Your set, setting/environment, and dosage, and other factors play into how the experience on the drug is for you.

 

[RoloMatte]

What did I say that was wrong...I'm 37 years old and was on dead tour in the end before Jerry died...I sold thousands of hits of LSD from the time I was 18-22...what don't you get?

Methamphetamine is the same way...there's hundreds if not thousands of ways you can make it that affect how the product looks...there's lots of heroin that's all slightly different....

I really wish I could see who I was talking to in real life and they could see me and here me speak so we could compare notes that way!

I'm done arguing with a bunch of snot-nosed little fucking nerds who have no clue....

Fuck that Eurotrash idiot! That bitch punk has no fucking idea what a gram even is! Bruh, He been to like 5 raves in his fucking life (Ultraworld came out of my homeroom in high school in Baltimore in 1986) and he wants to run his bitch mouth about enlightenment? Fucking for real? Bruh, I guarantee he never sat in a school bus in Irvine in 85 and said, no, no, baby, that's not Carmex..... Oh, shit man, She's fucked up now. ....Mm-hmm. .....for 4 months!!!.

 

[Bitchniggaz]

Exactly. It's either LSD or a research chemical.

The supposed different types of LSD are really just brands/marketing and in reality it's all the same drug. Your set, setting/environment, and dosage, and other factors play into how the experience on the drug is for you.

You are correct but leave out a major issue.
The difference between different qualities of lsd is about purity.
From talking to people who handle Crystal, the common explanation is that after the basis synth of lsd you are left with a certain % of impurities depending on the type of synth and skill of chemist.

Some people take the batch as is and sell it.
Others may take 50% and clean that up to get a purer crystal etc.
So there is a risc in cleaning the lsd since some will be lost etc.
Thats why ive been able to get 3-4different Crystal from the same source.
Its the same lsd but different levels of impurities.

Everyone i do acid with can feel the difference between needlepoint and less pure Crystal.
White fluff and needle are harder to really feel any difference between.
But silver and lower is quite different from the better ones.