which substances are Neurotoxic?

[qwe]

Tramadol can cause neurotoxicity (seizures) in quantities just five times the usual dose.

what if you don't get any seizures? (i.e. 250mg or so, not above 400mg)

 

[K'dOUTinAZ]

Than you don't get seizures

The vast majority of people don't...

 

[bouncer]

Take a Klonopin with Tramadol to prevent seizure.

 

[qwe]

i dont take above 400mg

do we know if there isnt or is any neurotoxicity from tramadol excluding that from seizures?

 

[bouncer]

None that I know of from the studies.

 

[Coolio]

This is the worst thread ever. 99% of it is complete bullshit, and the parts that aren't bullshit seem to have contradictory statements from other people about the same chemical. Things like seizures, addiction, respiratory depression, short term memory loss, reduction of intelligence, psychosis, depression, vitamin B12 depletion, etc. are not signs of neurotoxicity. Dead neurons are. Brain plasticity is the reason that all of these drugs cause permanent psychological and physiological changes, just as every other aspect of your experience in life does.

Unless you have conclusive evidence from multiple studies that a drug causes NEURONS to DIE forever, that drug is not neurotoxic. Studies done in mice, rats, and monkeys are about the only ones that tend to universally apply to humans but at different dosage levels, and even then it's not always going to apply.

As far as I've seen, and I don't care to dig up and cite legitimate studies on all these because many links/citations are already included in this thread, only the following recreational drugs are proven neurotoxic in humans at some dosage level that might be taken by some recreational users:

ethyl alcohol
phencyclidine
amphetamine
methamphetamine
methylenedioxymethamphetamine
methylenedioxyamphetamine
4-chloroamphetamine
4-iodoamphetamine (if you call these haloamphetamines "recreational drugs")
4-methoxyamphetamine


Neurotoxicity is also not a sign that a drug is unsafe to use recreationally. Look at all the research done on people with extensive brain damage. Entire sections of the brain can be destroyed, and the brain can over time adapt and use areas not normally used for the functionality the destroyed area is used for in normal humans for these functions. The neural network in your head can map around the brain cells you kill having fun with drugs, and completely replace and maybe even improve upon the way it worked beforehand.

 

[BilZ0r]

And MDMA, MDA, PCP and ethanol.... they're neurotoxic if a single dose if given, at recreational doses, in humans? I hate to say this, but do you have any references?

BilZ0r: Alcohol in the right setting is neuroprotective too.
K'd: Describe some of those settings

Any excitotoxicity. Ethanol's a NMDA antagonist, a GABA-potentiator, a potassium channel opener and a calcium channel antagonist... Those are the pharmacological properties of a perfect anti-excitotoxin. Citations, I can't be bothered finding many, but:

Brain Res. 2004 Nov 26;1028(1):66-74.
In the adult CNS, ethanol prevents rather than produces NMDA antagonist-induced neurotoxicity.
Farber NB, Heinkel C, Dribben WH, Nemmers B, Jiang X.

Neuroreport. 2003 Nov 14;14(16):2089-94.
Ethanol attenuates ischemic and hypoxic injury in rat brain and cultured neurons.
Liao SL, Chen WY, Raung SL, Chen CJ.

Neurochem Res. 2003 Aug;28(8):1193-9.
Ethanol differentially inhibits homoquinolinic acid- and NMDA-induced neurotoxicity in primary cultures of cerebellar granule cells.
Cebere A, Liljequist S.

Neuropharmacology. 2000 Jan 28;39(3):515-22.
Combination of low dose ethanol and caffeine protects brain from damage produced by focal ischemia in rats.
Strong R, Grotta JC, Aronowski J.

 

[qwe]

why are seizures (even minor ones that happen all the time like muscle twitches?) neurotoxic? what sort of damage occurs?

 

[Cronic King]

So....is ritalin neurotoxic???

 

[VelocideX]

Not as far as I'm aware. Ritalin actually protects against amphetamine neurotoxicity by blocking access to the relevant monoamine transporters...

 

[BilZ0r]

why are seizures (even minor ones that happen all the time like muscle twitches?) neurotoxic? what sort of damage occurs?

I don't think minor ones are neurotoxic under any meaningful definition of the word. Large seizures are neurotoxic, probably because an excitotoxic cascade.