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  • BDD Moderators: Keif’ Richards | negrogesic

Opioids Which Papaver Somiferum Alkaloid is responsible for the "time/extended release" effect of oral Opium / Poppy Tea usage?

User145667

User145667

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You know what I mean? Anyone who has drank Opium Tea knows that there is a very long duration (12-16 hours long if one has low tolerance, and still a good 5-8 hour effect for those who have "duration tolerance," and who would normally only feel traditional opioids for about 1-3 hours these days; at least IME). It's almost like God created Opium as an all natural "OxyContin" or "MS Contin" type of pain reliever.

(And, while we're on the topic, it also seems like God created Kratom---which I like to call "Opium Lite" or "Diet Opium"---to work as an all natural "Suboxone/Methadone" type of treatment opioid. [And in Thailand, it is actually used for this very purpose, as an Opium substitute]. Just like Suboxone, it contains a partial Mu Receptor Agonist---that is, 7-HOM---which happens to have a potency of around 17-30 times the potency of morphine; and similarly, Buprenorphine [Suboxone] also happens to possess a similar potency, and is itself also a partial agonist. Both drugs have a "ceiling effect," both are used to treat withdrawal syndrome, both have mildly stimulating properties, both of them contain both a partial agonist type substance, as well as an antagonist type substance; and finally, both are used buccally [Thai people usually chew the fresh leaves, and thus absorb the goodies through the mouth; Much like the fact that Suboxone is absorbed in the mouth. Oh yeah, and as partial agonists, both have the ability to block other Opioids -- seeing how partial agonists both partially activate the receptor, as well as antagonize/reverse agonize the receptor, to my knowledge. Sorry for the rant, I just found the many parallels really interesting.)

Obviously this "time release" aspect of oral Opium has to be caused by the entourage effect of all or one or a combination of the alkaloids found present in the Opium Poppy plant. Does anyone know *which* alkaloid(s) happens to cause said effect? How does it go about doing this? Does it cause the Morphine to be broken down slower? How does it effect the half life like that? Could you isolate the culprit alkaloid and then pair it with heroin or oxy or Dillies or something and get those drugs to also last significantly longer as well (I have always wondered this lol)? Thanks.

Also, on a kind of unrelated note: does anyone know why Morphine is the only opiate/opioid that causes this really fatigued, almost painful kind of tired feeling on the come up? I even feel it when I shoot it. I never get that from any other opioid, just Morphine. Do you guys know what I'm talking about? What causes that? Just curious lol.
 
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I never noticed opium lasting that much longer than morphine, only less urge to redose as effects begin to diminish. But what I did noticed and have confirmed by knowing exact % of morphine in one batch of opium I used is that I needed significantly less morphine to get as high as I would with pure morphine. Sure, effects are quantitatively different quite a bit but achieving nod on opium is possible with a lot less than I would expect. Amount of morphine in opium needed to achieve strong effects, alone would produce only light high.

Prolonged and stronger effects surely got to do with codeine and thebaine but there’s a lot other alkaloids that surely too have some effects on high.

I never tried codeine alone and maybe I don’t get that long high cuz I don’t metabolize it good? Or maybe it’s another way around and my body metabolism of it is very good/fast so I that’s why I feel opium so strong?

As for thebaine with other opiods, that would be a nice thing to try out. As for codeine, if it’s not gona be used orally, than don’t. As for numerous other opium alkaloids, some would make for a great combo, some for a bad combo.
 
That’s interesting. Different salts do influence duration and come up for sure and so to some extent high too. If MDMA citrate is “slow-release form” of MDMA surely most drugs have potential to have such a salt.
 
I don't know about that. I just know that yen pox (the ash left after opium is smoked) is still psychoactive and eating it is the last resort for dependant users.

In 'Junkie', Burroughs mentions it - and actually, the guy did his homework and suggested that 3,6,14-triacetoxymorphone was likely to be the most potent opioid. Of course, at the time science hadn't covered the modifications that can yield morphine derivatives that are hundreds of times more potent than their parent drug.

I should add that papaverine is also psychoactive and might well produce it's own dependency upon users.
 
Yeah papaverine and possibly quite a few more alkaloids found in opium but most not in naturally present amounts. Still doesn’t mean they don’t modify effects of main alkaloids.
 
User145667 said:
It's almost like God created Opium as an all natural "OxyContin" or "MS Contin" type of pain reliever.
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I have thought this very thing many times
SpiralusSancti said:
never noticed opium lasting that much longer than morphine
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Do you mean er morphine? I guess so, as the duration of imnediate release morphine cant really be compared to that of opium, or a least that's my experience and everybody's else I am aware of.

I don't know shit about pharma and chemistry but I tend to thing that it's not any specific alcaloid nor a combination of them all.
There were a med called Pantopon ( also Tebaicin) wich was labelled as " total alcaloids of opium in the % found in nature". Never tried it myself, but have been told that it wasn't as long lived as opium.
So, I am under the impression that maybe the oils, fats, or wathever more things that latex contains could be responsable for the delayed effects.
This is only a wild guess, but I don't know, when you smoke or plug opium, never injected it and never will, it doesn't last near as long as when you eat it.
I think it's more related to the way it's metabolized when orally used than with anything else, but again, I don't know...
 
Señor Moreno said:
There were a med called Pantopon ( also Tebaicin) wich was labelled as " total alcaloids of opium in the % found in nature". Never tried it myself, but have been told that it wasn't as long lived as opium.
So, I am under the impression that maybe the oils, fats, or wathever more things that latex contains could be responsable for the delayed effects.
This is only a wild guess, but I don't know, when you smoke or plug opium, never injected it and never will, it doesn't last near as long as when you eat it.
I think it's more related to the way it's metabolized when orally used than with anything else, but again, I don't know...
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Pantopon's production will not retain the papaverine.
 
Papaverine doesn't produce any pain-relieving effects. The latex of poppies becomes "medicinal" when heated in a tea or hookah / pipe. To extend the duration of effects take poppy tea with fatty foods like pork and beef. The phytochemicals become bound (partially) in the fat in your stomach instead of escaping through the bowels + intestines.
 
No, you don't need to heat latex for it to be active. In fact you don't have to wait for it to dry if you don't want to, if you can bare the utterly bitter taste of fresh latex, even worse than dried opium.
As long as the pod is mature, and even before, the latex contained in them is active.
 
Señor Moreno said:
No, you don't need to heat latex for it to be active. In fact you don't have to wait for it to dry if you don't want to, if you can bare the utterly bitter taste of fresh latex, even worse than dried opium.
As long as the pod is mature, and even before, the latex contained in them is active.
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Yup, and I’ve heard it’s very potent fresh too.

-GC
 
Noodle473 said:
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

A Fatal Case of Opioid Intoxication After Raw Poppy Plant Ingestion

Papaver somniferum contains many opioids and is frequently used in agriculture. Both the intoxication and the withdrawal of opioids have a wide range of symptoms such as coma, depressed respiration and agitation. Here, a fatal case of opioid intoxication ...
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
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What a sad case, a 4 years old child!. What a tragedy, may her rest in peace, poor little girl.

But yes, It is indeed dangerous even for grown people and even with tolerance.

Cadáver de Pasquale, italiano de 32 años, en mitad de un campo de amap
Cadáver de Pasquale, italiano de 32 años, en mitad de un campo de amapolas

That guy was one of the many who come to the pharma fields in the season (just starting, btw). You find people from all Europe, mostly spanish of course, but also a lot of italians like that poor Pasquale guy. He was a user, supossed to have a tolerance but it didn't save him.
It happens more often than we think, but not just right there in the fields, so it doesn't get media and autorities attention.
May them all rest in peace, also
 
I had periods where I was on poppy tea daily for a long time. I had also had times where I used once a week. Usually on a Saturday. I would take like 12 gigs twice on Saturday. So strong tea in the morning and one late afternoon. I would still be feeling it all day Sunday. By Monday I had a slight raw feeling, a little less of that on Tuesday and back to normal by Wednesday.

Tea does last longer than say taking an MS Contin. Strong stuff.
 
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Señor Moreno said:
I have thought this very thing many times

Do you mean er morphine? I guess so, as the duration of imnediate release morphine cant really be compared to that of opium, or a least that's my experience and everybody's else I am aware of.
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No I mean regular morphine. If I don’t count very long come up with opium (hours till peak even on completely empty stomach) and longer after-effects than with pure morphine mentioned figure of 12 – 16h isn’t nearly as long as what I experienced (and I tried both raw and refined opium and even had one checked for exact % of morphine). Not duration but how little is needed compared to pure morphine and qualitative difference is what I like about it; it also does last somewhat longer for sure but for me difference in that aspect isn’t at all spectacular, especially when considering duration of peak.

As for smoked opium, unlike with oral, on occasions I used that ROA it was easy to ingest more morphine during session than amount of pure morphine I would snort over same time, but that isn’t really unexpected. Maybe some will think it’s up to part of active alkaloids staying in ash but it’s purely cuz of different ROA as it’s lot more fiendish that way; unlike oral where one dose in 24h is just fine (but not that real effects last nowhere near that). I know it wasn’t up to part of morphine staying in ash as if you manage to use it by hot knife method, there practically isn’t any ash left. It’s really tricky to smoke it that way as it runs as soon as it touches hot surface but you can get a really big hit compared to smoking it on foil or from a regular pipe. I’m sure proper opium pipe with a lamp is best way and hope I’ll get chance to try it out one day. But surely some rig for smoking cannabis concentrates might work great too.

And I think you might be right that, for you guys such a long duration, and for me, really long come up has to do, not only with alkaloids but also consistency and other stuff in opium. And how hard it hits the stomach compared to pure morphine is more than likely cuz of that. I’ll be sure to make laudanum next time I encounter opium to see how it’ll influence speed of come up and duration.
 
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