Which one do you consider cheating??

[Mariposa]

i know i've stated this about #1 situation in both posts, but i've yet to hear an answer.

How does everyone who doesn't think #1 cheating..justify the heart straying but not the pussy.

Does it only take physical contact for it to be cheating? Really? Does it take physical contact to solidify your relationship and to create the bond? No of course not, so why does it take that to break it?

Again, people's inability to draw a distinction between flirtation, friendship, and finding something in another man she no longer gets at home almost (if not exactly) to a romantic level.. is a bit absurd.

I'll address it DD.

I fail to see how I am "unable" to make the distinction between de facto cheating (in general, defined as physical contact with another outside an agreed upon set of circumstances in a specific relationship) and actions that could be construed subjectively as predecessors to physical cheating.

I wouldn't be in a home where I had to go elsewhere to meet my needs at this time in my life. I freely admit that I have done both, years ago.

I agree that bonds can be broken in multiple ways. I agree that the behavior in #1 is unacceptable. However, I must get back to my point that I call BS on "emotional cheating". It smacks of thoughtcrime to me, and while I agree that it is inappropriate for anyone in a committed relationship to form a relationship that could be construed as "emotional cheating", I firmly reject the concept on the basis that it is impossible from a logical perspective to hold something that has not happened against another.

This is a matter of where one draws the line as to their own relationship. I wouldn't put up with or engage in #1 or 2. But I recognize that people will think as they please. I certainly do. I have less of an interest in holding imagined offenses against people than I do as to preserving my relationships.

Regarding other points: I find it unconscionable to have a child and then fuck around, and I say this from personal experience (as the child). With or without children, if you promise a certain behavior (or to abstain from that) to another and then you go and violate that, you're breaking a contract. If I had a partner that did such, I'd have better reasons than "thoughtcrime" to take issue with his behavior short of physical contact with another. I would be pissed, but I could not call it "cheating". I'd call it being an asshole.

Further, you can't bring an STD home to your partner from flirtation. Emotionally damaging? Absolutely. Disrespectful? Certainly. Cheating? No. Are you a shithead if you do it? Yes. Are you a shithead if you think about it? Not necessarily.

 

[ChemicalBeauty]

#1 is having an emotional affair

#2 is having a sexual affair

But are having affairs.

 

[Beatlebot]

Personally, I feel "is this cheating," questions are subject to the rebuttable presumption that they are excuse generating endeavors. How many people actually ask these because they are engaging in a theoretical thought experiment (rather than a real, personally relevant situation?)

I hate to be a skeptic, but it seems to pay so well.

You could be right but it seems a bit presumptuous. Must we psycho-analyse every poster who starts a thread here? (Did I just say that?) Sometimes we can just live and let live too. If a personal situation sparked the OP's question, let her come forward with it on her own.

I did really appreciate your post though, as always

As for emotional cheating v's physical cheating - to me one is not as bad as another. In fact, I would say one is a warning signal before the other happens.

I might be alone on this one, but I'm more likely to forgive an emotional affair than a purely physical one. Even if the emotional affair became physical I'm still more likely to forgive it. I can accept that I may not be able to fulfil all my partners wants and needs for the rest of our lives together. There could be someone out there who can give him something that I cannot. If he finds that then I can at least understand why he would risk our relationship on following another attraction. Supposedly falling into bed with a stripper or some other random means he is risking what we have for 12 minutes of fun. That is much less acceptable.

 

[QuestionEverything]

I came across an article on emotional affairs today. I thought about posting it for discussion in it's own separate thread, but considering the way this one has evolved it might be of interest to some of you here.

I do want to make it clear that I do not agree with all it has to say (for example, it states that you have probably 'gone too far' if you 'legally touch' a male friend [as in picking lint off of his blazer]8) ), but it does have some interesting information.

It is rather long, so here is the link: The Affair You Don't Know You're Having - WebMD

 

[anna!]

Kids need stability far more than happy parents.
Plus this whole happiness business is a fucking farce. Kids don't give a flying fuck wether their parents are happy or not. They don't give a flying fuck if their parents are in love or not. Kids don't give a fuck wether their parents are emotionally fullfilled or not. Kids simply do not give a shit about stuff like that and to say otherwise is patently absurd. Kids are selfish and self-absorbed. But they're adorable so they get away with it.

Absolutely disagree. I have a 4 year old and a 2 year old, and my husband and I are currently separated (but living in the same house). These little kids are incredibly receptive to negative emotions. Our 4 year old is constantly asking us why we are "hurt" and whether we need bandaids. Some nights she cries by herself in bed, and she tells my parents that she's "sad".

I grew up in a household with parents who had a volatile relationship, and let me tell you, I was absolutely concerned with their happiness, emotional fulfillment, stability, etc. They are still married now (nearly 40 years) but I have often wondered how things might have been different if they'd separated.

People tend not to get divorced for the great fun of it, and in our situation our children will always come first. From my point of view, and as a girl who had a depressed and angry mother for a lot of her life (due in large part to the marriage), removing the unhappy relationship is part of making sure my kids have the best possible opportunity for happiness, and that I give myself the best chance I can to give that to them.

 

[alasdairm]

^ i agree. one thing i've learned, again through experience and observation - is that kids learn a great deal about life subconsciously from their parents.

many relationship issues people have can be directly traced back to lessons learned - both subconsciously and consciously - from their parents' behaviour.

alasdair

 

[drugfukkdrockstar]

i know i've stated this about #1 situation in both posts, but i've yet to hear an answer.

How does everyone who doesn't think #1 cheating..justify the heart straying but not the pussy.

Does it only take physical contact for it to be cheating? Really? Does it take physical contact to solidify your relationship and to create the bond? No of course not, so why does it take that to break it?

Again, people's inability to draw a distinction between flirtation, friendship, and finding something in another man she no longer gets at home almost (if not exactly) to a romantic level.. is a bit absurd.

No.1 Is a form of cheating but what I am trying to say is it more forgiving and 'fixable' than no.2.

No.1 version is justified. It takes two to make a relationship work. If you don't do your bit, don't have a sook when your partner finds someone who can give them what they want/need.

 

[randycaver]

personally, i've felt far more guilty over emotional cheating than i did after physical cheating. there was more emotion invested in it, and more time, effort, etc. it's not like it happens in an instant, it's something that builds. you have to keep allowing it to happen.

it may be thought crime, but so what? perhaps a person is just too weak to actually act out their sexual desires.. but that doesn't make it okay. if i were caught doing that, i'd feel worse than after being caught for physical cheating, because it would've meant more to me. if a person feels that the emotional cheating is a betrayal, how could you take that away from them? tell them that they don't have the right, because you didn't actually do anything but you wished you did? i can see that going over really well. either way - both situations are a deal breaker to me

 

[drugfukkdrockstar]

Not in my opinion because to me actually doing the physical act is the big deal breaker as far as I am concerned.

The thing is, I am a good girlfriend to my boyfriend. I give him all the support he needs. I am his rock, his best friend, is soul mate, his lover.... we have so much between us that to be honest if he for a moment connected with someone else, I know within myself that I have what it takes to get him back if *I* really wanted to. May sound stuck up, but thats how it is. I am also a person who is willing to take responsibility in a relationship if I have not been keeping up with my share of the deal if you know what I mean. So since I can only speak form my own point of view (not saying it's right or wrong it's just how i see things in my situation) that if he went and fucked someone else regardless of all the metal and emotional support I have given him, and the fact that he knows I would never do the same to him, then not only would the relationship be instantly finished, I would probably kick the crap out of him too. I know - not lady like, but i feel strongly about this.

I don't tolerate disrespect. Seeking attention is one thing, but going out and straight out doing something that is well known would kill me inside.... there is no turning back.

 

[randycaver]

yeah but why would you want to take someone back who would cheat, emotional or otherwise? aren't you then a sucker? if there is so much between you that he'd risk it, perhaps it means that your connection means more to you than it does to him.

i'd have absolutely no self respect for myself if i tried to get somebody back who had cheated on me. i just think that i have such an image of who i love in my mind that if there was any kind of cheating, that image would be gone. if they're not the person i think them to be, there's no relationship.

 

[drugfukkdrockstar]

It all really depends as well on why he would seek the attentions from someone else. Thats what you work out together.... if it was because I was not doing my share, taking him for granted, never sleeping with him all that jazz then I would, if i still wanted him as well of course, would want to show him that i do care. If it was my fault, I don't expect anyone to stay in any relationship with someone who isn't making them happy - including me. So I would want to try and improve things. If it can't be saved then so be it.

But if everything was great and he still went and started getting interested in someone else, then for sure it will be over - no questions asked. I feel the person who seeks an emotional connection from another due to being mistreated, or neglected in their relationship deserve a second chance. As at the end of the day I don't feel it's completely their fault.

 

[@lterEgo]

i'm hesitant to get involved in this discussion, but i do strongly disagree with DD and the rest of the emotional cheating camp. i too reject the concept of emotional cheating outright. i've posted some thoughts on the subject in this forum in the past: emotional cheating

i'm just going to focus on situation #1, because i think most of us can agree that in the average monogamous relationship, scenario #2 is cheating. whether or not it's forgivable is something else entirely, but the fact remains: the man engaged in sexual intercourse with a woman other than his wife. there's not a whole lot up for debate in a case like that. situation #1 is obviously more of a gray area.

let's revisit what's actually going on in situation #1:

the wife and the instructor are not having any sort of sexual relationship, nor talks sexual to eachother, but enjoy eachothers company and conversation in which neither were getting at home..is this cheating?

in my opinion, considering this cheating is a very dangerous approach. i'd like to know specifically what it is about this situation that indicates a breach of trust offensive enough to label it cheating? is it the fact that the wife is enjoying the company of a male other than her husband? the idea that the wife really *should* be getting this kind of attention from her husband instead? is it the wine and the feeding eachother? is the main concern that this relationship *could* cross the line into cheating in the future? i am curious to know exactly where the dealbreaking activity begins here.

i have a few initial points to make here while i wait for more clarification on why situation #1, which includes zero sexual activity, constitutes cheating:

1. people can have friends. furthermore, people can actually have (gasp!) opposite sex friends, even if they are married. a wedding band does not cut off all contact to the outside world, and i have a hard time understanding how a healthy person can feel genuinely threatened by their spouse simply associating with people of the opposite sex.

2. you can't ever be *everything* to someone, not even a significant other, and you really shouldn't have to. what a sad burden to carry, to be your spouse's only source of support, the only shoulder to cry on, the only person to ask for advice, the only way to ever feel accepted or loved, the only person to develop an emotional connection with...

3. people cannot always control their thoughts or feelings. what they can control is their actions. it's important to make a distinction between the things in our lives that can be restrained and the things that are beyond our power. it's doubly important to refrain from punishing people you love for uncontrollable things that are legitimately out of their hands.

i imagine the argument is that these two (the wife and the cooking instructor) are more than friends. well, maybe they are and maybe they aren't, and to assume that something more is going on perhaps speaks more to the individuals posting and their own insecurities than it does to the reality of the situation. i have a lot of platonic male friends, and i go out drinking with them, and i've fed plenty of them right from my hands. situation #1 qualifies as cheating for a lot of people because they have carried the scenario further to a conclusion that comes straight from their own imaginations.

some people see the friendship as cheating because the wife is getting something from the cooking instructor that she should probably be getting at home. while i can understand this point, and do agree that the married couple has a lot to work on, i don't believe that either spouse should feel obligated to provide for every possible emotional need of the other. i think they should try - i think everyone should try - but we need to acknowledge our limitations as human beings. again, i have a lot of male friends. sometimes i get things from them that i can't get at home, and it's really not the end of the world. sometimes it's a second opinion, sometimes it's a sounding board for my frustrations, sometimes my significant other simply isn't around since we're not together 24 hours a day, sometimes it's a laugh, sometimes it's an activity that my significant other doesn't particularly enjoy. and hey, occasionally i even need to vent *about her*!

isn't this pretty normal? how is the wife not well within her rights by entertaining herself with a friend while her husband is out doing other things? she likes cooking, he likes sports. should they both have to give these things up to ensure neither of them ever cultivates any kind of meaningful interaction with someone else? human beings are social creatures, and for anyone to assume that monogamy equals not caring for or needing anyone else again ever... well, good luck to you because you are in for a big disappointment. if your spouse actually expects you to be the lone provider of all things physical, emotional, and social, prepare for constant feelings of gross inadequacy as you plow through a series of failures because nobody can do that. it's just not realistic.

let's just say for argument's sake that the wife and the cooking instructor do feel something for eachother beyond simple friendship. how is this not perfectly natural? i'm intrigued by people all the time, and sometimes this grows into a little crush. is that really so criminal, these moments where "your heart strays"? i don't know about the rest of you, but i have not reached that ultimate state of zen-like mastery where i can turn my heart off right at the point where i feel myself becoming fascinated by another. maybe it's because i don't want to ignore my feelings (and why should i?) but i doubt it - i don't think our private thought and feelings are that easily limited. are people really suggesting that *thinking* about someone else romantically or sexually is cheating? really? if so, do you consider fantasizing cheating too? are you cheating every time you whack off to porn? how about if you spank it to the thought of an ex? do you see where i'm going with this?

wow, this post is getting long. i'll wrap this up for now by answering the original question directly:

- situation #1 is not cheating. however, it is potentially a red flag.
- situation #2 is cheating.

 

[Chubba75]

Either #1 or #2 and I'm ending the relationship,

#1 would be terrible, I'm reading a bit further into and assuming this relationship grows (not sexually, but the emotional attachment). The way it was described in the posts, it would cause relationship problems...

I would prefer #2, it's like a band-aid, nice and quick.

 

[Mona Lisa]

In the first scenario, I would say it was understandable especially if her husband was taking her for granted and hardly paying any attention to her. In the second situation, I would say it was cheating but in the second degree rather than first degree, since it was a spontaneous act that was done while drunk. A premeditated act of adultery is far worse.

 

[cuddly.kittie.too]

"let's just say for argument's sake that the wife and the cooking instructor do feel something for eachother beyond simple friendship. how is this not perfectly natural? i'm intrigued by people all the time, and sometimes this grows into a little crush. is that really so criminal, these moments where "your heart strays"? i don't know about the rest of you, but i have not reached that ultimate state of zen-like mastery where i can turn my heart off right at the point where i feel myself becoming fascinated by another. maybe it's because i don't want to ignore my feelings (and why should i?) but i doubt it - i don't think our private thought and feelings are that easily limited. are people really suggesting that *thinking* about someone else romantically or sexually is cheating? really? if so, do you consider fantasizing cheating too? are you cheating every time you whack off to porn? how about if you spank it to the thought of an ex? do you see where i'm going with this? "

I sort of agree with what you are saying here. I don't think that friendship, or even a mild crush on someone (that is not acted upon, that is), is cheating. What I do think is that it is absolutely possible to cross a certain emotional line with someone without *ever* doing anything physical. I think the crucial point is when the secondary relationship begins to provide most of the emotional nourishment, rather than the primary relationship. This is when it begins to be cheating, IMO. An intense emotional exchange like that is a very powerful thing, and there is a deep connection in sharing intimate secrets and baring oneself and one's soul to another. Perhaps it is different for other people, but I would know for sure when a friendship, even a very close one, was no longer just a friendship but had evolved into something far more serious, and in my case, no sexual contact would have had to have happened for this line to be crossed. I agree with what SLM said earlier on - the woman in scenario no 1 should leave her husband or boyfriend if she feels so unfulfilled, unwanted and unappreciated (hopefully after trying numerous times to address these things with him). This would free her to nourish her emotional needs without engaging in behaviour that might contitute a betrayal of her s/o's trust.

 

[echo off]

it really depends doesn't it? in scene 1 if all the husband wants is a women to clean his house, cook his meals and give him sex... then her having a mental relationship is not cheating. However, a mental relationship is much more healthy than a physical one, and between scenario 1 and 2 it is in scene 1 that the partner is more likely to end the relationship after developing another relationship during a relationship... ie cheat.

and again, depending on what the wife wants in scene 2... if she just wants someone to bring home money, not interfere in her life and be a father to her children, then the husband wasn't cheating. And to be honest, he is much less likely to develop a relationship breaking relationship... ie cheat.

and lets be honest... if you forgive them, they didn't cheat you... you accept some responsibility for actually cheating them out of something they had to seek elsewhere.

then there's the final idea that both relationships are bullshit, and they are both cheating their partners.

 

[PAMAD]

One thing I'd want a little more info on with 1 is if the woman is generally that intimate with her friends. For me I know that people who are close to me (especially my friends) I'm EXTREMELY intimate with. It's just my personality. Because if she's in that sense then I wouldn't really know if I'd consider it emotional cheating, it's more of a personality. Also I'd want to know if she tries to talk to her husband about the stuff she talks to the instructor to and if he just blows her off. Because if she's trying to keep the intimacy then again not cheating.

Of course if either of those aspects aren't being met then it's really a high possibility that she is committing an emotional affair.

 

[ScattyD]

I'd say the woman in #1 'almost' has the right to go and find some attention, clearly her husband is a wast of time and space (IMO)

#2 CHEATING end of, if your cant control those animal instics then your no better than the man in #1 ... selfish.

 

[not_broken_420]

1-No, as long as they aren't romantically involved, and it is a platonic relationship, I see no problem. They just cant cross the line of doing anything sexually/romantically because then it would be cheating.

2-FUCK HIM. If my SO went to a strip club that would be fine. If he slept with someone, regardless of who, that is fucked up.

 

[ScattyD]

In story1 the wife dose ALL the house work and looks after the kids, the husband dose NOTHING for the relationship.

In story2 both peoploe are contributing to the relationship (happily married) but the man gets gready. I never said the wife was a wast of space!!